Freedom from ME oil.

[Cold Fusion38]

I would like to have an honest, fair, and POLITE debate about energy policy including plug in electric cars and other alt energy cars. I would also like to discuss new ways of producing energy and the idea of new nuclear power plants to supply our energy until such a time as we can get ALL our power from solar sources.



ONCE AGAIN I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS THREAD FRIENDLY!

 

[xsited1]

I would like to have an honest, fair, and POLITE debate about energy policy including plug in electric cars and other alt energy cars. I would also like to discuss new ways of producing energy and the idea of new nuclear power plants to supply our energy until such a time as we can get ALL our power from solar sources.



ONCE AGAIN I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS THREAD FRIENDLY!

That would be nice, but the liberals (in name only, of course) keep us dependent on foreign oil. Here are a few examples:

1. Coal - too dirty
2. Nuclear - too dangerous
3. Hydroelectric - harms environment
4. Solar - Environmentalists Against the Mojave Desert Solar Plant
5. Wind - Ted out to blow down windmills

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Lets just get the fuck off enemy oil by NOT buying it anymore! Let's do that NOW. The free marketplace will come up with viable, economic alternatives real fast, and we'll bankrupt our enemies instead of financing them.

We need "country of origin" labels on the gas pumps, like we have for food, for starters. Let us vote with our dollars!

But more broadly, without government subsidies most alternatives aren't viable, and most ALL of them are actually worse for the environment than evil fossil fuels!

NO ONE wants a polluted planet. That fallacy is an ad-hom card the EnviroNazis love to play. If you're against AGW, you're a "denier" and like pollution. You don't care about the planet. All that rot. It's just typical attempts to quash debate. To squelch observations and even data. NONE of that is part of science, or the quest for knowledge.

The truth is, we do not know nor can we ever know all the effects of pollution. The ecosystem is so complex, our understanding of it is still in its infancy.

Currently the focus of the AGW theories is on CO2 emissions. Well, that's certainly a convenient devil, it's at least what, 18th on the list of greenhouse gases? Far behind the thousands of times more potent and dangerous NF3? But CO2 IS the one which is emitted by combustion of fossil fuels -- that evil oil and gas stuff.

Well, if the science is settled and there's no room for debate, let's get serious about it! Let's immediately ban ALL manufacture and use of CO2 for entertainment purposes -- fake "smoke" at rock concerts, sporting events, wrestling events, Hollywood special effects... Soda pop carbonation, paint ball guns, any and all toys... also for uses where it's been superseded, such as water treatment, fire fighting.... If it's REALLY so bad these are the cheapest, easiest and fastest ways to stop millions of tons of it from going into the atmosphere every year.

Also while we're at it, let's get that NF3 stopped by redesigning manufacturing processes so they don't produce and emit this highly dangerous for the environment gas. NF3 -- nitrogen trifluoride -- is a compound used in manufacture of flat panel televisions, computer displays, microcircuits, solar panels and is 17,000 times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Also stays in the atmosphere 800 times longer than CO2, yet you never hear anything about it, because it's not a product of fossil fuels combustion.

THESE are things they would do, and be calling for, if they really truly themselves believed in their own cause. But they don't, the cause is simply an excuse to gain more control over people's lives and line the pockets of special interests such as GE.

The "science was settled" that the Jews were inferior and had to go, too. What a convenient devil they were to Nazi Germany! Those who fail to learn the hard lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

By far the most towering idiocy of environmentalism is the harm to the environment most all "alternatives" do:

Lighting's dirty little secret: The swirly florescent bulbs that will by law be required, as incandescent bulbs are banned? Mercury. Where's it all gonna go, from the billions of these discarded? Into the groundwater! Love it!

Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more.

Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well it's not like the "conservatives" don't want us to continue using oil until the last drop comes out of the ground. Cheney's energy meeting ring a bell?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I think the only way we will get more nuclear power plants is for the Fed to build them and then lease them to power cos.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Well it's not like the "conservatives" don't want us to continue using oil until the last drop comes out of the ground. Cheney's energy meeting ring a bell?

If Cheney and Boooooosh really wanted to line the pockets of their "rich oil buddies" they would have BANNED all enemy oil imports when they had the chance, SKYROCKETING the price for domestic oil, and oil in general worldwide. And greatly spurring domestic DRILLING in the process. They would have cleaned up, making Bernie Madoff look like a piggy bank rifler!

It's when petty partisan hackery -- which is basically regurgitation without cogitation -- such as yours gets into conversations, that they can become unfriendly very fast.

 

[xsited1]

Well it's not like the "conservatives" don't want us to continue using oil until the last drop comes out of the ground. Cheney's energy meeting ring a bell?

Cheney? He's not in power. The Democrats have controlled Congress since 2007. It's their game now.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I think the only way we will get more nuclear power plants is for the Fed to build them and then lease them to power cos.

Baloney.

Get the government OUT of that business completely, except as a regulatory role. REMOVE the massive obstacles, the punitive taxation and toweringly costly requirements, which are entrenched. It's interesting, Obama and Dems want to embrace every "European Model" there is, except Nuclear energy policy! The French for example, have a robust Nuclear plant system. Why not emulate that?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Don't think they could just BAN foreign oil......At least not legally.


I would mostly like to yalk the possibility of plug in electric cars and nuclear power plants to "fuel" them. What say you with regards to these two points?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

The problem is Mid that I don't think a private co could get the kind of money they need to build one. That and the fact that the FED could get past most of the red tape if they were serious about nuclear power.

Why would you see it as a bad thing if the FED builds them and then leases them to power cos?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I think we pretty much agree on nuclear power as the only curently viable alt to fossil fues we just see getting there in a different way.

 

[ozzmdj]

I said it before the environmental Marxist have taken over the energy policies in this country. Sad to say France can built and have up and running a Nuclear power plant with in 5 years. It would take over 6 in this country just to go through the red tape costing 10's of Millions of dollars before you could even break ground. Not to mention the lawsuits by the environmental wackos.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I would love to see wind power harnessed to make hydrogen for distribution for hydrogen cars.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I just wish that the extreme enviros would recognize that new nuke plants are NOTHING like Three Mile Island.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

MR......Actually the new nuke plants produce hydrogen as a BYPRODUCT!! How cool is that?

 

[ozzmdj]

I just wish that the extreme enviros would recognize that new nuke plants are NOTHING like Three Mile Island.

First off what happened at Three Mile Island? Oh yeah the safety system WORKED extreme enviros are STATIST that are anti-capitalism in other words anti-American like the kook in the White House now

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well o.k. OZZ a bit of an extremist yourself then hmmm? But let's try to come up with some solutions here. I think that when the electric car becomes cheaper that eveyone should at least CONSIDER replacing one of their households cars with a plug in. I also beleive that we need 10-20 nuke plants by 2020 and I think the only way to do that is for the FED to build them.

 

[WillowTree]

how is al gore going to get around?

 

[KittenKoder]

I think the only way we will get more nuclear power plants is for the Fed to build them and then lease them to power cos.

Baloney.

Get the government OUT of that business completely, except as a regulatory role. REMOVE the massive obstacles, the punitive taxation and toweringly costly requirements, which are entrenched. It's interesting, Obama and Dems want to embrace every "European Model" there is, except Nuclear energy policy! The French for example, have a robust Nuclear plant system. Why not emulate that?

Exactly, it's because of government control that we are still stuck on stupid in the first place.

 

[pal_of_poor]

The only thing about Nuclear is that I feel like we're going backwards instead of forwards.

They give terrorists another target, and create a pretty bad waste situation, on where no one, even the place in Nevada we're designing, want to take the waste.

I like the idea of not buying oil from the people who are terrorists, lowing the price of oil generally by not using nearly as much of it, for those of us who'll still be using it in the future. That will be, of course, most of us, since plastics, cosmetics, shingles, and all sorts of other petroleum based products will always be with us in some form.

The really great thing about solar, other than the clean aspect, is that it decentralizes the production of electricity. In the South in particular, they work best when they are needed the most, on really hot, sunny days, they are producing like crazy, just when all of our air conditioners are turned up full blast. If there is one my heat rash and I do not want to give up is AC.

Windmills and solar farms in the desert have small downsides, and though I certainly care about nature, my BS detector tells me that, sure a few birds will be knocked down, and maybe some desert dwellers will have some very localized problems, but in general, it sounds like a great thing to put in a desert, a huge plant, producing power.

Plus there's that unofficial unemployment rate of 19 percent. Build those grids, build many solar plants, and inverter plants, and get the price down where I don't have to pay almost as much as my little house is worth to put them on my southern-facing roof surfaces.