Free Will?

[dmp]

All of those are great examples, Jeff.

 

[GotZoom]

All of those are great examples, Jeff.

 

[dmp]

All of those are great examples, Jeff.

You whore!

lol!

 

[5stringJeff]

All of those are great examples, Jeff.

 

[GotZoom]

All of those are great examples, Jeff.

You whore!

lol!

 

[-Cp]

I find it almost Clintonian of you that you would try to define "all" as "some." But, in rebuttal, here is the same Greek word, in other contexts. Does "all" mean "some" in these examples?

Mt 6:33
"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. – Will God only fulfill some of His promises?

"All what things"?

Mt 11:28
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. – Will God only give rest to some?

Rest to the Christians who grow weary, sure...

Mt 14:20
and they all ate, and were satisfied. And they picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. – Did only some of the 5,000 eat to satisfaction?

Sure - they "all" ate - all of the 5,000 not all of the entire world or mankind..

Mt 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, - Are we only to go to some nations?

All the nations of that time - sure...

Mt 28:20
teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." - Are we only to obey some of Christ’s commands?

Ac 1:24
And they prayed, and said, "Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two Thou hast chosen – Does God only know the hearts of some men?

Ac 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. – Did the Holy Spirit only fill some of the apostles at Pentecost?

Ac 2:21
'And it shall be, that EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord shall be saved.' – Will God only save some of the people who call on Him?

Ac 2:32
"This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. – Were only some of the Twelve witnesses?

Ac 7:50
'Was it not My hand which made all these things?' – Did God only create some of the universe?

Ac 10:43
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." – Do only some people receive forgiveness of sin through faith in Jesus?

Ac 17:25
neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all life and breath and all things; - Does God only give life to some things, and someone else give life to other things?

Ac 17:30
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all every where should repent, - Does God only want some to repent?

It's very obvious that God wants ALL people to come to repentance, not just some.[/QUOTE]

If find it interesting that most of your uses of the word "all" here have not so much to do with "everyone" or "all mankind" - ...

Clearly, the scriptures you originally referred to used the sense of the word "all" as in: "Definition
"2.collectively
some of all types"

As in those whom he predestined.... If you're saying that it's "God's will for "all" of man to be saved" - then you're saying that mankind has the ability to thwart God's will, and that's BS...

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" areused in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is veryrarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words aregenerally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has notrestricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...

 

[5stringJeff]

If find it interesting that most of your uses of the word "all" here have not so much to do with "everyone" or "all mankind" - ...

Clearly, the scriptures you originally referred to used the sense of the word "all" as in: "Definition
"2.collectively
some of all types"

My examples show the word "all" to mean "all," not "all who were predestined" as you keep trying to twist it into. But, nevertheless, please address these two verses which do use the Greek "pa's" to mean 'everyone.'

Ac 2:21
'And it shall be, that EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord shall be saved.'

Ac 10:43
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

As in those whom he predestined.... If you're saying that it's "God's will for "all" of man to be saved" - then you're saying that mankind has the ability to thwart God's will, and that's BS...

Mankind certainly has the ability to thwart God's will. It's called sin.

For example, God said "You shall not murder." (The Sixth Commandment)
However, people do commit murder.
Therefore, murderers have acted contrary to the will of God.

Why is mankind able to sin? Because mankind has free will, which is the same free will that allows man to respond in faith to God's call of salvation.

 

[dmp]

In case you missed this, -Cp:

_______________________________________

Romans:14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

First, Define what "IT" is.

16These good things from God are not given to someone because he wants them or works to get them. They are given because of His lovingkindness.

This translation shows the context to be 'God's Gifts' are not EARNED, or given SIMPLY because we want them.

...God's mercy - God's Blessings are/is not a function of our desire - it's a function of Him. We have no mercy, no power of our own. This has nothing to do with free will. You're 'reading into' things big time.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

Has nothing to do with salvation - but God's 'calling' on our lives. Of course we can resist God's calling/direction/will...Jonah, etc.

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

I have no idea why you highlighted that part...doesn't seem to make sense in the context of this topic.

And for those who say 'Oh, but I can still choose to practice sin - even after I'm saved" - well, I'm sorry, if that's the case then you weren't saved to begin with - again, let's see what the Bible says:

Sinning doesn't preclude one from Salvation.

1 John 3
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

I don't want to hear any response to what I've posted other than your explanation as to what else these passages could possibly mean...

You will get the rest when YOU respond to the countless OTHER verses with interpretation of how they CLEARLY show 'our part' in the relationship with God we desire. You strive/crave/look so deeply for the one or two verses, when, if translated a certain way, give over to what you want to believe, and ignore the mountains of evidence which shows otherwise.

 

[GotZoom]

My examples show the word "all" to mean "all," not "all who were predestined" as you keep trying to twist it into. But, nevertheless, please address these two verses which do use the Greek "pa's" to mean 'everyone.'

Ac 2:21
'And it shall be, that EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord shall be saved.'

Ac 10:43
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."



Mankind certainly has the ability to thwart God's will. It's called sin.

For example, God said "You shall not murder." (The Sixth Commandment)
However, people do commit murder.
Therefore, murderers have acted contrary to the will of God.

Why is mankind able to sin? Because mankind has free will, which is the same free will that allows man to respond in faith to God's call of salvation.

(sigh)...he'll just fine something else.

Who were the prophets? Certainly not EVERY SINGLE Prophet...

...blah blah blah..

What is....is...

 

[-Cp]

Mankind certainly has the ability to thwart God's will. It's called sin.

For example, God said "You shall not murder." (The Sixth Commandment)
However, people do commit murder.
Therefore, murderers have acted contrary to the will of God.

Why is mankind able to sin? Because mankind has free will, which is the same free will that allows man to respond in faith to God's call of salvation.

Mankind does not have the "free will' to sin - sin is his nature.. that's not will, that's the "human condition" we're all born into...

You can thank Adam for that one...

 

[dmp]

Mankind does not have the "free will' to sin - sin is his nature.. that's not will, that's the "human condition" we're all born into...

You can thank Adam for that one...

Jesus had the free-will to sin. If he didn't, Why would satan waste time tempting him?

(shrug).

Are you going to argue that Jesus was not 'fully man'?

Damn-Skippy he was. He was Fully Man. And Fully God.

 

[5stringJeff]

Mankind does not have the "free will' to sin - sin is his nature.. that's not will, that's the "human condition" we're all born into...

You can thank Adam for that one...

It is natural for mankind to sin, but we are not forced to sin in any given circumstance.

For example, I have, at a few stages in life, been so mad at someone that I would have liked to murder them. However, I didn't murder them. If your statement was correct, then my human nature would have forced me to sommit the sin of murder. But I didn't. Therefore, again, we see free will working in my life.

And I'll take it that you've condeded the point that mankind acts contrary to the will of God by sinning.

 

[5stringJeff]

Jesus had the free-will to sin. If he didn't, Why would satan waste time tempting him?

(shrug).

Are you going to argue that Jesus was not 'fully man'?

Damn-Skippy He was. He was Fully Man. And Fully God.

A small word of advice: it may not be in your best interest to use profane language while referring to the Almighty.

 

[dmp]

A small word of advice: it may not be in your best interest to use profane language while referring to the Almighty.

Depends on what you mean by 'profane' I suppose...what's the GREEK translation?

:

Edited, however.

 

[5stringJeff]

Depends on what you mean by 'profane' I suppose...what's the GREEK translation?

:

Edited, however.

Vulgar, profane, obscene...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shit

 

[dmp]

Vulgar, profane, obscene...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shit

Then I'm good.

Used to express contemptuous acknowledgment of the obvious.

 

[-Cp]

It is natural for mankind to sin, but we are not forced to sin in any given circumstance.

For example, I have, at a few stages in life, been so mad at someone that I would have liked to murder them. However, I didn't murder them. If your statement was correct, then my human nature would have forced me to sommit the sin of murder. But I didn't. Therefore, again, we see free will working in my life.

And I'll take it that you've condeded the point that mankind acts contrary to the will of God by sinning.

Being born into sin sort of forces us to that nature... it's all we know how to do..

You're examply isn't that of a sinful lifestyle but that of a varrying degree of unlawfulness...

Where in the Bible does it say that it's God's will for "mankind" to not sin? Hiw original will - was to give Adam a choice - and Adam made that choice, for all of us..

 

[-Cp]

Recommended reading material:

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?event=AFF&p=1011693&item_no=6804

 

[5stringJeff]

Being born into sin sort of forces us to that nature... it's all we know how to do..

You're examply isn't that of a sinful lifestyle but that of a varrying degree of unlawfulness...

If sin was all I knew how to do - or all any human knew how to do - then everyone would always sin, given the choice. Yet everyone does not always sin, given the choice. Therefore, people obviously have a choice on whether or not to commit a sin.

Where in the Bible does it say that it's God's will for "mankind" to not sin?

Are you really serious?? How about this, for starters: "Go, and sin no more." (Jesus, John 8:11)

Hiw original will - was to give Adam a choice - and Adam made that choice, for all of us..

Adam's choice introduced the sinful nature into the human race. Adam's choice has no bearing on our salvation.

 

[-Cp]

If sin was all I knew how to do - or all any human knew how to do - then everyone would always sin, given the choice. Yet everyone does not always sin, given the choice. Therefore, people obviously have a choice on whether or not to commit a sin.

Are you really serious?? How about this, for starters: "Go, and sin no more." (Jesus, John 8:11)

That scripture applies to the redeemed after he told the lady "Go and sin no more"... doesn't apply to "all of mankind"...

Adam's choice introduced the sinful nature into the human race. Adam's choice has no bearing on our salvation.

It has bearing on our salvation in the sense that we're all born into sin - have the blinders on to our own sin - and cannot ever see our own sins unless the Spirit convicts us of our sin.