"Free Palestine

[Phoenall]

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

No they don't.

Descendants of murderous squatters have to right to that which belongs to others. They declared war. They lost. By what right do squatters who initiated a war have the right to that which they never owned in the first place?

They aren't squatters.

LINK showing that they own the land, either through international treaty or land deeds. A clue the Ottoman census put the numbers of arab muslims in Palestine to be very low, with the Christians outnumbering them in many places. The Jews owned most of Jerusalem, Hebron and other towns and cities.

 

[Phoenall]

They are Arabs.
Israel is a small country.
Let any if the neighboring Arab nations take in the Palestinians

How? Israel won't allow them to leave.

nice lie.

but okie dokie.

You sure about that?

YEP I am as the arab muslims an leave at any time they want, but they cant return. Once they have gone they stay gone for ever. The only people stopping the arab muslims from leaving is hamas who controls who leaves gaza

 

[Phoenall]

It wasn't as black and white as you make it out to be. Those who live their now have a right to keep living there.

Of course, those Arabs who are descendants of those who did not take up active hostilities in 1947 have a right to keep living in Israel. I have never made the claim they don't.

It's those who are descendants of the murderous thugs who are inspired by genocidal antisemitism who don't.

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

again with this nonsense?

they left.

they lost.

let me know when i get my great grandparents' properly in belarus then we'll talk.

til then, stop asking for things for terrorists that no group of people has ever gotten.

Let me know when you attempt to pursue it.

I had no idea that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Have they risen up and demanded fair and free elections, moved away from the rocket launchers built on their homes. Do they surround hamas leaders houses in gaza inviting the Israelis to bomb them. If they don't and angage in any terrorist/militia activity then they must be terrorists.

 

[Phoenall]

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them on her behalf, in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937

Oh, they formed state? When ?

Well, that is a 1937 League of Nation document and Palestine was already a state.

The official start date was 1924.

Are you saying Palestine became a sovereign state in 1937?

No.

Then what are you saying as that is what is implied in your post................

 

[Phoenall]

It wasn't as black and white as you make it out to be. Those who live their now have a right to keep living there.

Of course, those Arabs who are descendants of those who did not take up active hostilities in 1947 have a right to keep living in Israel. I have never made the claim they don't.

It's those who are descendants of the murderous thugs who are inspired by genocidal antisemitism who don't.

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

again with this nonsense?

they left.

they lost.

let me know when i get my great grandparents' properly in belarus then we'll talk.

til then, stop asking for things for terrorists that no group of people has ever gotten.

They left did they,Bullshit they were driven out of their homes and villages by Zionist Terrorists,non of these Palestinians took up active hostilities they were caught in the cross-fire and the Jews attempted to eliminate them.....Gillian you talk so much Shit.

Not according to the arab muslims they didn't. And if the Jews tried to eliminate them then the bodies would be piled high all over Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

No they don't.

Descendants of murderous squatters have to right to that which belongs to others. They declared war. They lost. By what right do squatters who initiated a war have the right to that which they never owned in the first place?

Wrong again Shitmouth........you knowledge of history is so poor that your comments have been consigned to the Garbage Can of History,much like Jillian's have............Stop being Cretins for Cretins sake

Read the history of the M.E. from other than islamonazi sources and you will see that the war actually stated as far back as 1924

 

[Phoenall]

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

No they don't.

Descendants of murderous squatters have to right to that which belongs to others. They declared war. They lost. By what right do squatters who initiated a war have the right to that which they never owned in the first place?

Moronic Comment

So is it a MORONIC COMMENT when you make it about the Jews ?

 

[Challenger]

Who, in their right mind, would agree to another nation establishing its borders within the confines of their own nation? AND allow that nation to claim the same capital?

Exactly right, the Palestinians certainly didn't agree to another "nation," (the European Zionist colonial project, aka Israel) establishing it's borders within the confines of their own nation, Palestine. Nice to see you are finally getting the point.

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

"Nation: A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory." nation - definition of nation in English from the Oxford dictionary

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Nation= "A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory."

Nation State= "A form of political organization in which a group of people who share the same history, traditions, or language live in a particular area under one government.

Country= "A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Thanks Challenger......Explains the Palestinians to a Tee.........steve

YES the Jewish Palestinians as the Ottoman records show that the arab muslim Palestinians did not exist in any numbers until the late 1880's when they migrated illegally on the promise of work.

Unsubstantiated Opinion. Prove it.

 

[Challenger]

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

The Arabs who had not yet invented their identity as "Palestinians" were invited to stay and take part in the new state of Israel. They chose warfare and murder, instead. Why should those dedicated to murder based upon ethnicity be allowed to return once they have made such a choice?

It wasn't as black and white as you make it out to be. Those who live their now have a right to keep living there.

Lets try this for a hypothetical......
Refugees settle (squat) in places they have no right to. They might stay their for decades, but they have no legal claim or right to that land. When are asked to move and the owners want the land back, should they have a right to demand it as their state? If they go to some place and work the land for the owners, they have no right to demand they have infinite right through time to make it their land.
If the PA fails or gives the land back to Israel, those in camps that have no legal deed to the land they are on can be removed. The UN camps were set up for convenience to help the refugees. The UN does not own the land nor to the refugees. Even if a state of some type is created in the WB, the camps are not legal determinant dwellings built to modern standards.
Camps around Beirut have grown on what was once park land. Palestinians have occupied apartment buildings, chalets and private homes but they have no permanent claim of ownership or right to stay there forever. The property belong to Lebanese.
Jews bought land but after the fact arabs want to declare the sales null and void. Money was exchanged, documents signed and taxes paid. Sellers remorse is just too bad. The land is no longer their's.
Towns have sprouted out of necessity but through most of gaza and the WB there is no legal proof of ownership. Even land that many palestinians might have registered, they did take the opportunity because they did not want to serve in the military or pay taxes. They don't own the land.
Demanding rights of public land is also problematic. Israel can rent state land but the renters do not own the land and no right to remain there indefinably can be claimed.
Things are no so black and white.
............as for nations? there was no palestinian state or government before the mandate and the arabs rejected the formation of a palestinian state. Where is their right?

You are of course talking about Jewish Gypo Settlers mainly from the USA,in this post.....because you would be correct.

Wrong as the last two legal owners of the land invited the Jews to migrate LEGALLY to Palestine and settle the land. You are not very well educated on the history of Palestine are you, must be all the brainwashing done in your formative years. So it is the illegal arab muslim migrants that invaded Palestine that are the Gypo squatters mainly from Iran, Syria, Iraq and Egypt.

The Ottomans invited Jewish people from Spain to settle in the Empire, most settled in the European portion and in Anatolia; very few settled in the Arab areas of the Empire. History of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia The British facilitated immigration based on Balfour, and most Jewish immigrants settled in the coastal cities. Fourth Aliyah - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia Fifth Aliyah - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Phoenall]

Exactly right, the Palestinians certainly didn't agree to another "nation," (the European Zionist colonial project, aka Israel) establishing it's borders within the confines of their own nation, Palestine. Nice to see you are finally getting the point.

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

"Nation: A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory." nation - definition of nation in English from the Oxford dictionary

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Nation= "A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory."

Nation State= "A form of political organization in which a group of people who share the same history, traditions, or language live in a particular area under one government.

Country= "A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Thanks Challenger......Explains the Palestinians to a Tee.........steve

YES the Jewish Palestinians as the Ottoman records show that the arab muslim Palestinians did not exist in any numbers until the late 1880's when they migrated illegally on the promise of work.

Unsubstantiated Opinion. Prove it.

Like this do you mean



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

 

[Challenger]

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

"Nation: A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory." nation - definition of nation in English from the Oxford dictionary

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Nation= "A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory."

Nation State= "A form of political organization in which a group of people who share the same history, traditions, or language live in a particular area under one government.

Country= "A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Thanks Challenger......Explains the Palestinians to a Tee.........steve

YES the Jewish Palestinians as the Ottoman records show that the arab muslim Palestinians did not exist in any numbers until the late 1880's when they migrated illegally on the promise of work.

Unsubstantiated Opinion. Prove it.

Like this do you mean



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

The changing demographic of Jerusalem does not reflect the wider situation in Palestine which you well know. Try providing Ottoman records for the whole of Palestine and you will find there was never a jewish majority in Palestine throughout the Ottoman period, and for that matter the British period.

"According to Alexander Scholch, the population of Palestine in 1850 was about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[116]

According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of whom 94% were Arabs.[117] In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[118] McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882; 737,389 in 1914; 725,507 in 1922; 880,746 in 1931; and 1,339,763 in 1946.[119]

In 1920, the League of Nations' Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine described the 700,000 people living in Palestine as follows:[120]

Of these, 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850, there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years, a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions." Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Challenger]

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

That's such a stupid canard.

The region known as Palestine has existed under that name for some time. It does not have to have the above to "exist" as a region with inhabitants.

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them on her behalf, in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937

Oh, they formed state? When ?

He ant answer because there is no evidence of there ever being a Palestinian state until 1988

Well....maybe. Daher el-Omar ruled most of Palestine as an independant Emirate from 1730 to 1775. Daher was a native Palestinian. That should count.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them on her behalf, in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937

Oh, they formed state? When ?

Well, that is a 1937 League of Nation document and Palestine was already a state.

The official start date was 1924.

Are you saying Palestine became a sovereign state in 1937?

No.

Then what are you saying as that is what is implied in your post................

No it wasn't.

 

[Coyote]

They are Palestinians, it was their country before the Zionist colonists arrived, why should they leave?

I keep hoping some neurons will finally start occupying all that unused tissue that lies between your two ears.

As has been pointed out to you innumerable times, there has never been a country called Palestine run by "Palestinians". You are uneducable and so keep repeating this stupid nonsense.

Yet they lived there. Why should they be forced to leave?

The Arabs who had not yet invented their identity as "Palestinians" were invited to stay and take part in the new state of Israel. They chose warfare and murder, instead. Why should those dedicated to murder based upon ethnicity be allowed to return once they have made such a choice?

It wasn't as black and white as you make it out to be. Those who live their now have a right to keep living there.

Lets try this for a hypothetical......
Refugees settle (squat) in places they have no right to. They might stay their for decades, but they have no legal claim or right to that land. When are asked to move and the owners want the land back, should they have a right to demand it as their state? If they go to some place and work the land for the owners, they have no right to demand they have infinite right through time to make it their land.

I'm talking about people who have been there for generations who's land gets confiscated because they were driven off and not allowed to return, or because "settlers" squat there and take it over. When Israel "needs" land for "security" reasons - is it Jewish land that is taken or Palestinian land that is taken? When illegal settlements are created - how many Jewish ones are demolished and how many Palestinian ones are demolished?

You imply they are squatters. That is no better than those who term immigrant Jews "invaders".

If the PA fails or gives the land back to Israel, those in camps that have no legal deed to the land they are on can be removed. The UN camps were set up for convenience to help the refugees. The UN does not own the land nor to the refugees. Even if a state of some type is created in the WB, the camps are not legal determinant dwellings built to modern standards.

Ok...so now we get into a serious ethical dilemma here. Many of those in refugee camps fled their property in the war and, contrary to the winner's narrative, there was evidence to support the claim that it wasn't just the Arabs telling them to flee. Israel forces emptied villages and forced people out. That property became Jewish property with no compensation to those who fled. There was a pretense at "inviting them back" but Israel placed substantial legal obstacles in the way of that return precisely to restrict those who could return. Same with so-called family unification efforts which were in actuality very restricted but heavily publicized.
They can neither return to their original property, nor receive just compensation.

Camps around Beirut have grown on what was once park land. Palestinians have occupied apartment buildings, chalets and private homes but they have no permanent claim of ownership or right to stay there forever. The property belong to Lebanese.

Are you talking about all the refugee camps...or West Bank....? I think there are multiple issues here.

One is - the Palestinians living in the West Bank.
Two is - the Palestinians living in Gaza
Three is - the Palestinians in refugee camps outside those areas.

I think the problems and solutions are seperate for each of the groups.

Jews bought land but after the fact arabs want to declare the sales null and void. Money was exchanged, documents signed and taxes paid. Sellers remorse is just too bad. The land is no longer their's.

Jews bought SOME of the land. The constant refrain of "they bought it" is not entirely honest.

Towns have sprouted out of necessity but through most of gaza and the WB there is no legal proof of ownership. Even land that many palestinians might have registered, they did take the opportunity because they did not want to serve in the military or pay taxes. They don't own the land.
Demanding rights of public land is also problematic. Israel can rent state land but the renters do not own the land and no right to remain there indefinably can be claimed.
Things are no so black and white.
............as for nations? there was no palestinian state or government before the mandate and the arabs rejected the formation of a palestinian state. Where is their right?

I agree they aren't so black and white - but that goes for both sides. Where is their right? It's the fundamental right of any people to have freedom, self determination, dignity and citizenship.

The recent election was interesting. For one thing, I took the time to look up the some many parties involved to see what they stood for and did. Some were very focused on domestic issues but a number had statements on the Palestinian issue. From what I can see the sentiment seems strongly towards NO two-state solution and annexation of the West Bank. I wonder how that would work and whether it mean for Israel as a Democratic State. It would create two classes of citizens: those with citizenship and those with permenant residency.

 

[Coyote]

Exactly right, the Palestinians certainly didn't agree to another "nation," (the European Zionist colonial project, aka Israel) establishing it's borders within the confines of their own nation, Palestine. Nice to see you are finally getting the point.

What was its capital then, who was its leader, what was its monetary unit and who owned the land under International law at the time ?

That's such a stupid canard.

The region known as Palestine has existed under that name for some time. It does not have to have the above to "exist" as a region with inhabitants.

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

It's not undefined. It's a region. Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

... a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. The name was used by Ancient Greek writers, and was later used for the Roman province Syria Palaestina, the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin.

Like Basque, Mongolia, Siberia, etc. You're insisting that in order to "exist" and by extention, its people to exist it must have defined borders, a capital, a currency, etc. That's bullshit. A canard designed to delegitimize their existence and rights.

Did the Souix have a border? A capital? A currency? A GDP? How about the Cheyenne? How many other people will suddenly cease to exist as a people?

Then define its borders of 100 C.E. to what they are today and see if it is defined or not. As your cut and paste shows it is undefined, as in its boundaries alter as and when the people decide. You are putting that as the definition of the Palestine nation, but the Palestine area is on a par with the Badlands of Nevada, the Antarctic ice pack and the Russian Steppes all know areas but without any clear boundaries.

No. I've never said "nation" - I've said it's a geographically defined region and it's had defined borders, depending on the era and which powers controlled the region.

Like I said - this is nothing more than a transparent attempt to delegitimize the rights of the people who inhabit the region.

Your last statement shows that you are blind to reality as the Souix, Chetenne and many other first nation tribes did have borders, being nomadic their capital was were they met, they had a currency of shells, beads and trade goods and their GDP was related to their food supplies and wealth.

Want to try again with the palestinain nation that never existed until 1988, and the Mandate for Palestine that gave 22% of the area of Palestine borders .

Show me the defined borders of the Souix, their capital, and their currency.

 

[Coyote]

It wasn't as black and white as you make it out to be. Those who live their now have a right to keep living there.

Of course, those Arabs who are descendants of those who did not take up active hostilities in 1947 have a right to keep living in Israel. I have never made the claim they don't.

It's those who are descendants of the murderous thugs who are inspired by genocidal antisemitism who don't.

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

And when they do commit a crime what then, can they be evicted as enemies of the state and their dual Israeli nationality removed ?

Does that happen when Jews commit a crime?

 

[Coyote]

It doesn't matter who they are "descendents of". As long as they haven't committed a crime - then just like anyone else they have a right to live where their families have lived for generations.

No they don't.

Descendants of murderous squatters have to right to that which belongs to others. They declared war. They lost. By what right do squatters who initiated a war have the right to that which they never owned in the first place?

They aren't squatters.

LINK showing that they own the land, either through international treaty or land deeds. A clue the Ottoman census put the numbers of arab muslims in Palestine to be very low, with the Christians outnumbering them in many places. The Jews owned most of Jerusalem, Hebron and other towns and cities.

You have to be specific - you are talking about millions of people, cases "ownership" going back prior to good records. Some owned, some resided for centuries and may as well have owned. You've heard of squatters rights laws? Can you guarantee that every Jew there "owned" the land they reside on? How much was confiscated when Palestinian residents were driven out? If you are going to call people squatters, then you need to be democratic about that slur.

 

[Coyote]

They are Arabs.
Israel is a small country.
Let any if the neighboring Arab nations take in the Palestinians

How? Israel won't allow them to leave.

nice lie.

but okie dokie.

You sure about that?

YEP I am as the arab muslims an leave at any time they want, but they cant return. Once they have gone they stay gone for ever. The only people stopping the arab muslims from leaving is hamas who controls who leaves gaza

I don't think you are right about that. Hamas has no control over the borders.

Palestinian freedom of movement - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Coyote]

That's such a stupid canard.

The region known as Palestine has existed under that name for some time. It does not have to have the above to "exist" as a region with inhabitants.

As soon as you use the term nation to describe the arab muslims claims you are showing your lack of understanding. Which is why the questions are always asked and never replied to properly. If Palestine was a nation before 1988 then it must have had a capital city, a currency, a leader or leaders, a GDP, and a set of laws. It must also have had a treaty signed by the LoN giving it the land undewr the terms of the Mandate for Palestine. Like Syria has, Iraq has, Jordan has and Israel has.
But seeing as it was just an undefined area in the M.E. that had no leaders or capital then it could not have been a nation. It is no different to the Gobi desert, the Sahara, the Pampas or the Steppes which are also not nations but just places on the map.

Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them on her behalf, in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point; there was no doubt whatever that Palestine was a separate political entity. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - League of Nations 32nd session - Minutes of the Permanent Mandates Commission 18 August 1937

Oh, they formed state? When ?

He ant answer because there is no evidence of there ever being a Palestinian state until 1988

Well....maybe. Daher el-Omar ruled most of Palestine as an independant Emirate from 1730 to 1775. Daher was a native Palestinian. That should count.

Interesting...I did not know that

 

[Phoenall]

"Nation: A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory." nation - definition of nation in English from the Oxford dictionary
Nation= "A large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory."

Nation State= "A form of political organization in which a group of people who share the same history, traditions, or language live in a particular area under one government.

Country= "A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory."

Thanks Challenger......Explains the Palestinians to a Tee.........steve

YES the Jewish Palestinians as the Ottoman records show that the arab muslim Palestinians did not exist in any numbers until the late 1880's when they migrated illegally on the promise of work.

Unsubstantiated Opinion. Prove it.

Like this do you mean



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jerusalem (After 1291)
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Jerusalem After 1291

"...Present condition of the City: (1907 edition)

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly Half the present population...""

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ..The First Official Ottoman Census
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... .....Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ....... Third/last, detailed in CathEncyc above
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

The changing demographic of Jerusalem does not reflect the wider situation in Palestine which you well know. Try providing Ottoman records for the whole of Palestine and you will find there was never a jewish majority in Palestine throughout the Ottoman period, and for that matter the British period.

"According to Alexander Scholch, the population of Palestine in 1850 was about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[116]

According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of whom 94% were Arabs.[117] In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[118] McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882; 737,389 in 1914; 725,507 in 1922; 880,746 in 1931; and 1,339,763 in 1946.[119]

In 1920, the League of Nations' Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine described the 700,000 people living in Palestine as follows:[120]

Of these, 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850, there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years, a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions." Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

They problem is the arab muslims and their stooges point to Jerusalem as the evidence of arab muslim occupancy in Palestine, so if this is proven to be wrong what chance is there that the rest of Palestine would not be the same. The records once produced by monte showed that the Jews owned 8% of palestines land, the Christians 1% and arab muslim less than 0.8%. That in itself tells anyone with intelligence that the arab muslims did not see the land as theirs


The Ottoman census of 1831 tells the story if you bother to look at it. Or wade your way through this

The Arab Settlement of Late Ottoman and Mandatory Palestine New Village Formation and Settlement Fixation 1871-1948 Seth Frantzman - Academia.edu