Forget the evolution debate

[Avatar4321]

An Athiest in Italy has sued the Roman Catholic Church claiming that they are defrauding people in teaching that Jesus Christ is a real person.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10712047/from/RS.4/

How long before something like this happens in the states?

 

[no1tovote4]

An Athiest in Italy has sued the Roman Catholic Church claiming that they are defrauding people in teaching that Jesus Christ is a real person.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10712047/from/RS.4/

How long before something like this happens in the states?

LOL. They couldn't. They have no First Amendment in Italy, they can there.

 

[Nienna]

I can't believe that 13% of the people who took the poll on there didn't even believe he existed as a historical figure.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I can't believe that 13% of the people who took the poll on there didn't even believe he existed as a historical figure.

It depends on whether or no you are talking about the Jesus of the Bible or not.

There exists no man named Jesus who rose from the dead 2000 years ago and could walk on water.

However, there does exist a man named Jesus who lived 2000 years ago whose followers founded the Catholic Church.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

It depends on whether or no you are talking about the Jesus of the Bible or not.

There exists no man named Jesus who rose from the dead 2000 years ago and could walk on water.

However, there does exist a man named Jesus who lived 2000 years ago whose followers founded the Catholic Church.

In your opinion, of course.

 

[Nienna]

It depends on whether or no you are talking about the Jesus of the Bible or not.

There exists no man named Jesus who rose from the dead 2000 years ago and could walk on water.

However, there does exist a man named Jesus who lived 2000 years ago whose followers founded the Catholic Church.

We're talking about the same man. Jesus, the historical figure, the one who inspired the Catholic/Christian faith, whose followers believe he rose from the dead. Same guy. Whether you believe in Christianity or not.

Now, be nice and stop flaming me; I just repped you!

 

[Avatar4321]

LOL. They couldn't. They have no First Amendment in Italy, they can there.

Since when has the Constitution stopped a liberal?

 

[kal-el]

An Athiest in Italy has sued the Roman Catholic Church claiming that they are defrauding people in teaching that Jesus Christ is a real person.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10712047/from/RS.4/

How long before something like this happens in the states?

Yea, that guy in the article said he had proof of Jesus's existence, historical records. Haha I hope he dosen't mean Josephus. 11 rather nondescript lines which basically say nothing of any value whatsoever prove nothing.
Also The Testimonium Flavianum IF not a forgery was written in 93CE therefore NOT 20 years after but actually at least 60 years after the alleged event. Then we have the fact that Josephus was a fairly prolific writer, he wrote I think something like 20 Books, devoted whole chapters to very average, mundane events & people, thieves and rogues, etc....Yet he supposedly if the forgery is to be believed only wrote one paragraph out of 20 books on what you claim is the savior of all mankind? Ha.

And don't even get me started on the Gospels. They could not be accurate, or eye-witness accounts, as they were written 70-100 years ex post facto. (after the fact)

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Yea, that guy in the article said he had proof of Jesus's existence, historical records. Haha I hope he dosen't mean Josephus. 11 rather nondescript lines which basically say nothing of any value whatsoever prove nothing.
Also The Testimonium Flavianum IF not a forgery was written in 93CE therefore NOT 20 years after but actually at least 60 years after the alleged event. Then we have the fact that Josephus was a fairly prolific writer, he wrote I think something like 20 Books, devoted whole chapters to very average, mundane events & people, thieves and rogues, etc....Yet he supposedly if the forgery is to be believed only wrote one paragraph out of 20 books on what you claim is the savior of all mankind? Ha.

And don't even get me started on the Gospels. They could not be accurate, or eye-witness accounts, as they were written 70-100 years ex post facto. (after the fact)

everything you post is old news, and has been thouroughly refuted by reputable scholars.

Do you read/write Greek? Arabic? Hebrew?
Many scholars who are much more knowledgable than you do, and they seem to disagree with your plagerized rebuttals.

Do you know who

Eusebius is?
Papiaos?
Irenaeus?

Lets see just how much of a Biblical/Christian history scholar you really are.

 

[5stringJeff]

And don't even get me started on the Gospels. They could not be accurate, or eye-witness accounts, as they were written 70-100 years ex post facto. (after the fact)

Wrong.

Mark, Luke, and Matthew were all written no later than AD 70, less than 40 years after the fact. And recently, there was a discovery of a small fragment of the Gospel of Mark that is dated around 50 AD - 20 years after the events. So all three gospels were written while the eyewitnesses were still alive, and could have testified to the truths written in the three accounts. John's gospel was written around 90 AD, which was still only 60 years after the events.

 

[listopencil]

I'd say that any law suit filed against religious leaders for misleading people is going to end up as a pile of crap. You'd have to prove that those leaders don't believe what they are saying, which is impossible. Sounds more like a publicity stunt pulled off by a bitter old man than an honest attempt at anything constructive.

 

[kal-el]

Wrong.

Mark, Luke, and Matthew were all written no later than AD 70, less than 40 years after the fact. And recently, there was a discovery of a small fragment of the Gospel of Mark that is dated around 50 AD - 20 years after the events. So all three gospels were written while the eyewitnesses were still alive, and could have testified to the truths written in the three accounts. John's gospel was written around 90 AD, which was still only 60 years after the events.

Please remember that Mark and Luke weren't disciples, and Mark was the first Gospel written, so ask yourself why would an "eyewitness" need to use someone else's work?

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/gosp1.htm

 

[dilloduck]

Please remember that Mark and Luke weren't disciples, and Mark was the first Gospel written, so ask yourself why would an "eyewitness" need to use someone else's work?

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/gosp1.htm

My thanks are due to Larry A. Taylor, who brought to my attention many of the points in this article. I rely very heavily on his work. Naturally, any mistakes made in this article are mine and mine alone

From your link LOL

 

[dmp]

Please remember that Mark and Luke weren't disciples, and Mark was the first Gospel written, so ask yourself why would an "eyewitness" need to use someone else's work?

http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/gosp1.htm

Just a friendly warning - any attempt you have to battle wits with gop_jeff will resort in a big lesson in humility on your part.

 

[kal-el]

everything you post is old news, and has been thouroughly refuted by reputable scholars.

Is that so?

Do you read/write Greek? Arabic? Hebrew?

Nope. I never claimed such.

Many scholars who are much more knowledgable than you do, and they seem to disagree with your plagerized rebuttals.

I'm not denying scholars are more knowledgable than me, but just because they are versed in a subject like Christianity, does not make them right.

Do you know who

Eusebius is?

I believe he was a Christian scholar

Papiaos?

The same?

Irenaeus?

A Christian writer

Lets see just how much of a Biblical/Christian history scholar you really are.

I never claimed to be a biblical/Christian history scholar. O so tiring, please stop being less than truthful.

 

[kal-el]

Just a friendly warning - any attempt you have to battle wits with gop_jeff will resort in a big lesson in humility on your part.

Well that remains to be seen

 

[dmp]

Well that remains to be seen

No - it's pretty clear already. I've seen how you 'debate', and i know Jeff pretty well. Below I'll create a fictional sequence of events:

Here's your style:

"What i'm saying is right -if you don't agree, you're a retard"

Here's jeff:

"No - you're wrong because logic dictates...blah blah blah"

Then you'd reply:

"No - YOU are wrong! You didn't agree with my conclusions, therefore you are biased and can't be trusted to be a productive member of society!"

Jeff decides it's best to ignore you, because you're incorrigible.

"What? no reply? See? I WIN!!"

I've seen 'your kind' hundreds of times online...mostly at DU.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Well that remains to be seen

Jeff will always win for the simple fact that he refuses to be dragged down into the mud with you. The fact that he's 400 times more knowledgeable than you on this subject is just a bonus.

 

[kal-el]

Well there's no point in continuing this tiresome argument, seeing is as you guys seem to idolize this Jeff fellow. He has yet to prove anything to me.

Originally posted by The Clay Taurus
Jeff will always win

Unless you have a crystal ball, and can tell the future, you are being dishonest.

The fact that he's 400 times more knowledgeable than you on this subject is just a bonus.

Uhh, he's just another chew toy to me, until he proves himself. So he could be versed on a book full of contradictions and misconceptions, but what does that prove? I could be well versed on the superman comics, so?

Originally posted by dmp
I've seen 'your kind' hundreds of times online...mostly at DU.

Huh? What is DU?

 

[dmp]

:blah2::blah2::blah2::blah2::blah2::blah2:

Huh? What is DU?

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