For Libertarian leaning folks

[JWBooth]

The ongoing conflict between philosophical purity and practical application occupies too much time and takes away from focusing on areas of shared agreement like shrinking government to the point of irrelevance.

 

[Oddball]

Controlled =GTG with ( 3rd Trimester Abortion ) ( Sensible Firearm Restrictions) ( Legalized Drugs ) ( Pathway/ Amnesty ) ( Collectivism Lite ) ...

1) There is a large pro life group in the LP.

2) There are no "sensible firearm restrictions" to be found in the party where jokes about belt fed machine guns and recreational McNukes are representative of their stand on the 2nd Amendment.

3) Immigration policy is (at least it was when I was there) couched in terms of simultaneously getting shed of the welfare state...Then all who came here would be pulling their own weight.

If you're going to gripe about libertarians, at least have your facts straight.

 

[YoursTruly]

Just like they took over the TEA Party and turned it into crap.....That's how controlled opposition rolls.

You ain't kidding about the tea party take over. By the end of 2008, it was nothing but a bunch of republicans who thought the tea party was cool. But wasn't supporting much of anything the tea party stood for in 2007.

My last tea party meeting ended with me getting kicked out.

 

[Failzero]

1) There is a large pro life group in the LP.

2) There are no "sensible firearm restrictions" to be found in the party where jokes about belt fed machine guns and recreational McNukes are representative of their stand on the 2nd Amendment.

3) Immigration policy is (at least it was when I was there) couched in terms of simultaneously getting shed of the welfare state...Then all who came here would be pulling their own weight.

If you're going to gripe about libertarians, at least have your facts straight.

The Party evolved on those issues , you did not

 

[Oddball]

The ongoing conflict between philosophical purity and practical application occupies too much time and takes away from focusing on areas of shared agreement like shrinking government to the point of irrelevance.

Indeed....Tariffs is one of those areas.

Too many libertarians give you a knee-jerk "tariffs don't work", without being able to contextualize and adequately describe what "working" or not actually means.

 

[Failzero]

1) There is a large pro life group in the LP.

2) There are no "sensible firearm restrictions" to be found in the party where jokes about belt fed machine guns and recreational McNukes are representative of their stand on the 2nd Amendment.

3) Immigration policy is (at least it was when I was there) couched in terms of simultaneously getting shed of the welfare state...Then all who came here would be pulling their own weight.

If you're going to gripe about libertarians, at least have your facts straight.

The Lie-Bertarians have far more in Common with the Far Left than they do what constitutes any semblance of a Far Right today

 

[Oddball]

You ain't kidding about the tea party take over. By the end of 2008, it was nothing but a bunch of republicans who thought the tea party was cool. But wasn't supporting much of anything the tea party stood for in 2007.

My last tea party meeting ended with me getting kicked out.

Same thing has happened to the LP.....Bob Barr is to them what Dick Armey was to the TEA Party.....A guy sent there to fuck it all up.

 

[Oddball]

The Lie-Bertarians have far more in Common with the Far Left than they do what constitutes any semblance of a Far Right today

No, they don't.....They're so far right that even traditional "righties" can't see them over the horizon.

 

[YoursTruly]

The Paulians have morphed into the Mises Caucus which is currently in the leadership positions but faces organised opposition from the GOP lite faction that ran it after the Harry Browne days.

I'm thinking there's simply not enough Mises caucus supporters in the LP. Much like the fiscally conservative wing of the GOP. (The Chip Roy's and Thomas Massie's).
This is probably due to many different reasons. But I'm guessing it's the LP left leaning population that keep fiscal conservatives from joining the LP.
I'm not going to join a party who cares more about trannies, gays and druggies more than the American working class and the USD problems.

The FB thread I mentioned in the OP, the mere mention of trannies, set the one I was talking on fire. Two paragraphs about how they should be treated more fairly, and that their liberties should be recognized and blah blah blah blah. And the whole time I'm thinking that if they got every tranny and gay person in the USA to vote for them, they still wouldn't get 10%. But if most American working class voted for them, they'd probably win a LOT of elections. From the local to the federal level.

 

[dblack]

Libertarians are as dumb as fuck.

I have to defer to your expertise here, Tommy. How dumb is fuck?

 

[dblack]

Again, Just so we're clear on this. "For Libertarian leaning folks."

I didn't see a libertarian section around here.

What's up with the LP lately? I haven't heard much from them in the last couple of years. The Mises Caucus taking over made some headlines. Supposedly they were cleaning out the die hard left leaning libertarians and trying to bring the LP back to something that resembled the Ron Paul R3VOlUTION. But all the news died down about as fast as it came.
I found my states LP Facebook page and found it was as dead as a doornail. I struck up a conversation on one if their threads, and was asking a few basic questions to see where the party was and if they'd gotten the party back in shape.
The only ones that replied were the ones who were still pushing for legalizing drugs and protecting trans and gay people. Pushing that a LOT harder than fiscal conservatism.
But this was just FB. So I realize this may not reflect the LP's leadership.

Anyone keeping up with the LP lately? Neither Biden nor Trump is going to get my vote (again). So I'm in search for a party who's more fiscally conservative.

Third parties won't matter until people vote for them. And the reasons people won't vote them have nothing to do with the parties themselves. Unless we can break people out of the "lesser-of-two-evils" stupor, we'll continue the downward spiral.

 

[j-mac]

sabotaged/hijacked like the two main ones.


Bob Barr and Gary Johnson were good.

Since then, same ol'....

Can't even weed out homO's hero and 1/6 Guest of Honor Jacob Chansley, gay left wing hate hoaxer....

Wasn’t Gary Johnson the one who couldn’t point out a country on a map?

 

[Oddball]

This is probably due to many different reasons. But I'm guessing it's the LP left leaning population that keep fiscal conservatives from joining the LP.
I'm not going to join a party who cares more about trannies, gays and druggies more than the American working class and the USD problems.

A lot of Berntards flocked there after getting shafted by the DNC primary cheating in '16.....Then more in '20.....Add to that the influx of moonbat Bush haters in the early oughts.

A large share of the people who've infested the LP in the last 20 years are terribly confused, and it shows in the overall philosophical schizophrenia of the party rank-and-file.

 

[Oddball]

Wasn’t Gary Johnson the one who couldn’t point out a country on a map?

He didn't know what country the city of Aleppo was in (Syria)....Then he saddled himself with a Marxataxsachusetts "republican" sot as his veep in '16.....The dude was a serious embarrassment.

 

[YoursTruly]

A lot of Berntards flocked there after getting shafted by the DNC primary cheating in '16.....Then more in '20.....Add to that the influx of moonbat Bush haters in the early oughts.

A large share of the people who've infested the LP in the last 20 years are terribly confused, and it shows in the overall philosophical schizophrenia of the party rank-and-file.

What can I say? The GOP has been through the same thing. Look how left they've become.

 

[YoursTruly]

He didn't know what country the city of Aleppo was in (Syria)....Then he saddled himself with a Marxataxsachusetts "republican" sot as his veep in '16.....The dude was a serious embarrassment.

After the MSM made this go viral, a lot of people suddenly learned what Aleppo was. (in the R & D party's)

 

[Montrovant]

He didn't know what country the city of Aleppo was in (Syria)....Then he saddled himself with a Marxataxsachusetts "republican" sot as his veep in '16.....The dude was a serious embarrassment.

The Aleppo flub wasn't a good look, unfortunately. It was a fairly big story in the media at that time.
I don't know all that much about Weld, but he definitely seemed to have a better image/persona than Johnson. The reality is that that is important for presidential elections. If the messaging and policy remained the same, I think a Weld/Johnson ticket would have been more palatable to the average voter than Johnson/Weld was. Johnson is just a bit too flaky.

Don't get me wrong, I found Johnson to be a much better candidate than the garbage we got (and generally get) from the Ds and Rs. And I looked at Johnson as sort of being libertarian-lite: I think that libertarians can sometimes be too extreme in their views for practicality, whereas Johnson's campaign seemed a bit more 'mainstream'. Unless someone hyper-rich funds a LP campaign, I don't think there's much chance of them making waves in a presidential election. Better to work from the bottom up.

 

[JWBooth]

I'm thinking there's simply not enough Mises caucus supporters in the LP. Much like the fiscally conservative wing of the GOP. (The Chip Roy's and Thomas Massie's).
This is probably due to many different reasons. But I'm guessing it's the LP left leaning population that keep fiscal conservatives from joining the LP.
I'm not going to join a party who cares more about trannies, gays and druggies more than the American working class and the USD problems.

The FB thread I mentioned in the OP, the mere mention of trannies, set the one I was talking on fire. Two paragraphs about how they should be treated more fairly, and that their liberties should be recognized and blah blah blah blah. And the whole time I'm thinking that if they got every tranny and gay person in the USA to vote for them, they still wouldn't get 10%. But if most American working class voted for them, they'd probably win a LOT of elections. From the local to the federal level.

The LP is always going to be a fringe party, there is room for growth, but it will never convince enough people that liberty and personal responsibility go hand in hand. It's greatest hope is to find an articulate candidate who can move the Overton Window on issues. One can be very libertarian and look askance at the LP and there are lots of reasons to do so. Once again, its down to a matter of who owns you. Are you sovereign member of the smallest minority out there, the individual?
You mentioned the trannys, and Flash, in post #20 spoke of open borders. The proper libertarian response is that you can lop off your crank, dye your hair purple and green, and get tattooed from head to toe, that is your choice as an individual, but like legalised drugs, you should bear personal responsibility for your actions and their consequences with no special consideration for your mental illness. They have no extra rights beyond those of any individual. Lines drawn on a map by individuals with no special claim should be meaningless and without the social welfare state would be. Many hard open borders libertarians are coming around to this pov.
As for drug legalisation, I have previously spoken to that. During one of his presidential campaigns the great Ron Paul was challenged on this issue. His response was to ask the crowd how many of them would take up the needle and start shooting heroin if it were legalised. No hands went up. There are people who are predisposed to finding a way to destroy their bodies whether it be tobacco, drugs, sugar, food, alcohol, or other risky behaviors. It is the right of any self owning individual to do as they wish with their body and suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[Curried Goats]

Indeed....Tariffs is one of those areas.

Too many libertarians give you a knee-jerk "tariffs don't work", without being able to contextualize and adequately describe what "working" or not actually means.

The problem with tariffs in libertarian philosophy is that they are a form of protectionism.

 

[Curried Goats]

View attachment 915238

That would be protectionist conservatism, not libertarian philosophy.

What are you trying to say because I'm saying libertarian philosophy is supposed to be opposed to tariffs.