Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[WillowTree]

It's easy to fix tax loopholes. Flat and Fair Tax for Everybody. No exceptions.

 

[Article 15]

Ten percent is HIGH for my tax bracket because I have no dependents no deductions.

I'm telling you that the REPUBLICANS caused this with their tax cuts over the years. It's irrefutable fact. Deal with it.

Willow doesn't like it when shown that her favorite talking point is the result of the GOP shoving tax cuts down our throat.

Hey! Pissant. Can you read the English language? I'm advocating for getting rid of tax breaks and loopholes for everyone. EVERYONE, even the leeches.

List the tax breaks and loopholes you are in favor of dropping.

 

[Modbert]

The problem isn't the EITC or tax cuts, it is deficit spending. I am for abolishing the IRS completely and eliminate the income tax, but that isn't possible until $200 billion a month deficit spending is stopped.

And replacing it with what?

 

[kaz]

Hillsdale here.

Kalamazoo, note my user name. I'm also a Michigan Alum.

Green and White here buddy.

No problem, nobody's perfect...

 

[Big Fitz]

Get used to it, and stealing from others to only make poverty more comfortable is not an ethical or righteous act.

It's not stealing, jackass. The rich are not paying their fair share. Loopholes allow them to dodge an exorbitant amt of tax, and hide their $$ like filthy hoarders. They need a slave class, and the middle is it.

It's taking. and the takers have overtaken the givers.. Time for a change. Too many people such as yourself feeling entitled to some other man's earnings.. It's just wrong.

Too many parasites kill the host.

I do believe we need a flea dip.

 

[Modbert]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

 

[kaz]

No friend it was the American citizen who lowered their own wages.
Every single person who graced the doors of WalMart/Cosco/Target etc. and chose cheaper items over better quality items "voted" over and over and over to cut wages and put Americans out of work.
It might have been the house republicans and Clinton who enacted NAFTA - but it was the American population that secured it's success.

By spending less to get the same thing Americans made themselves poorer...

Are you being obtuse or too simplistic to understand that buying cheaper foreign goods put Americans out of work?
Americans love to bitch about businesses outsourcing jobs overseas - but too selfish to stop buying the products those businesses made overseas.

American unemployment would drop like a lead balloon if suddenly Americans started choosing American made goods over cheaper foreign "goods"

Purchasing cheaper good overseas and outsourcing jobs overseas are good for the economy. But I believe that only because I understand economics. I am not adherent of the liberal religion that understands that knowledge is crap and facts are useless.

 

[Modbert]

It's easy to fix tax loopholes. Flat and Fair Tax for Everybody. No exceptions.

Flat tax and Fair tax.

21% regressive sales tax, that's fair alright.

 

[Big Fitz]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Sounds like a good idea to me too. Lower the overall level and close loopholes. I do find the double-taxation of profits made overseas to be ludicrous. Ending that alone would cause a flood of revenue back into the US.

 

[Big Fitz]

It's easy to fix tax loopholes. Flat and Fair Tax for Everybody. No exceptions.

Flat tax and Fair tax.

21% regressive sales tax, that's fair alright.

hence the nice illustration of cutting the size of government and privatizing much of what they do. Then any NST could be much smaller if we use it to replace Income tax.

Never both.

 

[Modbert]

hence the nice illustration of cutting the size of government and privatizing much of what they do.

So what do you want to privatize?

 

[kaz]

The problem isn't the EITC or tax cuts, it is deficit spending. I am for abolishing the IRS completely and eliminate the income tax, but that isn't possible until $200 billion a month deficit spending is stopped.

And replacing it with what?

The Fair Tax would cause an economic boom and restore our privacy which is being shredded by the IRS. The only downside of the Fair Tax is it can't be used as a tool to wage war on evil successful people and fascist corporations, but nothing's perfect.

 

[Google]

Roughly 65 million American workers pay zero income tax. Do the liberals on this board believe that this is shared sacrifice?

Two problem with this argument. One, the whole argument in this thread rests of the idea that FICA isn't an income tax. Two, the bottom half pay very little in taxes because they also have a very small share of national income.

But the real point here is, just like the loopholes for the evil and hated wealthy, the revenue that would be collected would still be a fraction of the current debt and still would not be enough to bridge the gap between the budget and deficit spending.

Tax increases and fixing tax loopholes on all tax payers still would not be enough revenue to cover the $200 billion a month in deficit spending. That is a fact.

True, hence the support for a balanced approach.

The corporate jet tax loophole, a loophole that was part of the 2009 stimulus package, would bring in enough revenue to cover .01% of yearly deficit spending.

That's actually not accurate. While the stimulus did include a provision for bonus depreciation, what's being discussed is the 1987 law that allows corporate jets to depreciate over five years instead of the seven for commercial planes.

Tax increases are not the solution and a lack of revenue isn't the problem. The problem is spending and poll after poll has shown a majority of Americans understand that. Perhaps that, along with the desensitization of the American people to the constant fear-mongering of this president, is why 63% of Americans are against raising the debt ceiling.

How can you honestly say that? Revenue right now is at it's lowest point in decades. The majority of Americans favor a balanced approach, containing both spending cuts and tax increases. There is no getting around that.

I don't even know where to start. 51% of Americans pay no income tax that is the name of the thread. FICA we've been told is an investment in a trust fund not a tax. It's a lie, but that is neither here nor there.

As for the corporate jet tax loophole you are wrong:

"Just a few months after lawmakers scolded auto executives for flying to Washington in private jets, Congress approved a tax break in the stimulus package to help businesses buy their own planes.

The incentive -- first used to help plane makers recover from the 2001 terror attacks -- sharply reduces the up front tax bill for companies who buy assets like business planes.

The aviation industry, which is cutting jobs as it suffers from declining shipments and canceled orders, hopes the tax break in the economic-stimulus bill just signed by President Barack Obama will persuade more companies to buy planes and snap a slump in general aviation that began last year." Stimulus Includes Tax Break to Promote Private Jet Sales - FoxNews.com I could have provided the NBC story, but I know it will piss you off that it's from Fox. Let's hear you attack the source.

Revenue is at historic lows because of the economy, not lack of taxes. Unemployment is at prolonged historic highs. How in the hell is raising taxes, something your savior Obama and former president Clinton, have said would be counter-productive for economic growth.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aufAtuTwKlE]‪FLASHBACK: Obama Says You Don't Raise Taxes In A Recession‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

The majority of American are against raising the debt ceiling. I can say it because it's true and here is the Gallup poll that shows it. I could provide more polls, but I'd rather you provide one that shows otherwise.

Attention to Debt Ceiling Debate Doesn't Affect Policy Views

 

[Modbert]

The Fair Tax would cause an economic boom and restore our privacy which is being shredded by the IRS. The only downside of the Fair Tax is it can't be used as a tool to wage war on evil successful people and fascist corporations, but nothing's perfect.

I love the names you guys come up with this stuff. The Fair Tax isn't fair. A 21% sales tax is not going to cause an economic boom.

 

[kaz]

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Corporate taxes are just double taxes, they should be eliminated. Income is already taxed when it's passed to shareholders. Taxing the same money multiple times is a big part of what's crippling our economy. As Democrats cripple the economy and they don't have new money to go after, they just keep going after the same money again...and again.

 

[Modbert]

The majority of American are against raising the debt ceiling.

The majority of Americans also don't want large entitlement reductions:

WSJ/NBC News Poll Finds Support Lacking for Entitlement Reductions - WSJ.com

WASHINGTON— Less than a quarter of Americans support making significant cuts to Social Security or Medicare to tackle the country's mounting deficit, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, illustrating the challenge facing lawmakers who want voter buy-in to alter entitlement programs.

In the poll, Americans across all age groups and ideologies said by large margins that it was "unacceptable'' to make significant cuts in entitlement programs in order to reduce the federal deficit. Even tea party supporters, by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, declared significant cuts to Social Security "unacceptable.

 

[Big Fitz]

hence the nice illustration of cutting the size of government and privatizing much of what they do.

So what do you want to privatize?

Social Security... and remove all government programs in health care re-privatizing it all. Shut down every department and agency created after 1951 as well and spin them off to the states to decide what they want to keep. End federal welfare, corporate and personal as well as paying more in tax refunds than what was withheld (if we can't just go to a flat tax/no exemptions).

Lots of things to do. Every unconstitutional assumption of power the feds have done needs to be ended, and that would be 95-100% of all social spending.

 

[Big Fitz]

The Fair Tax would cause an economic boom and restore our privacy which is being shredded by the IRS. The only downside of the Fair Tax is it can't be used as a tool to wage war on evil successful people and fascist corporations, but nothing's perfect.

I love the names you guys come up with this stuff. The Fair Tax isn't fair. A 21% sales tax is not going to cause an economic boom.

It's fair only in that it is a consumer tax and if you don't consume you don't get taxed. It would increase all prices, yes, but you would have more money in your pocket to pay, therefore it would be almost a wash. The poor would be hit just as hard as the rich, as they consume, by nature, less and cheaper items. But they would take a hit. And of course, without WIC, EBT and other welfare programs to sustain them, they would have less disposable income. Then again, why should poor families HAVE disposable income when many middle class families have less disposable income if they wish to maintain a non-impoverished lifestyle? Poverty should never be comfortable. Our founding fathers knew that well, lest the poor never strive to get out of their mire.

I don't really agree with the national sales tax. particularly at 21%, but it does have some points that are still a long way from being worked out.

 

[WillowTree]

It's easy to fix tax loopholes. Flat and Fair Tax for Everybody. No exceptions.

Flat tax and Fair tax.

21% regressive sales tax, that's fair alright.

Are you speaking of a VAT? Sure why not? As long as it replaces Federal Income Tax. worth a try. No rebates, no subsidies. Everyone has skin in the game. We could do away with the entire IRS. Think what a savings that would be.

 

[kaz]

The Fair Tax would cause an economic boom and restore our privacy which is being shredded by the IRS. The only downside of the Fair Tax is it can't be used as a tool to wage war on evil successful people and fascist corporations, but nothing's perfect.

I love the names you guys come up with this stuff. The Fair Tax isn't fair. A 21% sales tax is not going to cause an economic boom.

Thanks, but I didn't actually name it. All taxes come out of sales already. Corporate taxes, income taxes, investment taxes, sales taxes. If we replace a myriad of taxes and the overhead that go with them and replace them with a tax that raises the same revenue only without all the accompanying overhead, then yes, that will trigger a boom. The cost of people and businesses complying with all the tax laws and the disincentives our tax laws provide to efficiency alone would dramatically drop prices. It would also make our enormous cash based underground economy taxpayers.