Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Modbert]

The poor would be hit just as hard as the rich, as they consume, by nature, less and cheaper items.

That's one of the main reasons why a 21% sales tax would never work. You want to complain about high taxation on corporations and the rich but don't mind implementing a system where the poor would be systematically destroyed. 21% of the poor's income and 21% of the rich's income are not even nearly the same.

So for you to say they would be hit just as hard is such a pathetic joke that I can't even laugh at how stupid it is.

 

[dblack]

I'm advocating for getting rid of tax breaks and loopholes for everyone. EVERYONE, even the leeches.

List the tax breaks and loopholes you are in favor of dropping.

Sounds like all of them. I could get behind that. The only income tax deductions we should allow are for expenses directly related to generating said income. Dump the rest of them - mortgage interest deductions, deductions for dependents, etc, etc...

 

[Modbert]

Thanks, but I didn't actually name it. All taxes come out of sales already. Corporate taxes, income taxes, investment taxes, sales taxes. If we replace a myriad of taxes and the overhead that go with them and replace them with a tax that raises the same revenue only without all the accompanying overhead, then yes, that will trigger a boom. The cost of people and businesses complying with all the tax laws and the disincentives our tax laws provide to efficiency alone would dramatically drop prices. It would also make our enormous cash based underground economy taxpayers.

Got a link that it would raise the same amount of revenue?

 

[kyzr]

The majority of American are against raising the debt ceiling.

The majority of Americans also don't want large entitlement reductions:

WSJ/NBC News Poll Finds Support Lacking for Entitlement Reductions - WSJ.com

WASHINGTON— Less than a quarter of Americans support making significant cuts to Social Security or Medicare to tackle the country's mounting deficit, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, illustrating the challenge facing lawmakers who want voter buy-in to alter entitlement programs.

In the poll, Americans across all age groups and ideologies said by large margins that it was "unacceptable'' to make significant cuts in entitlement programs in order to reduce the federal deficit. Even tea party supporters, by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, declared significant cuts to Social Security "unacceptable.

The poll didn't ask the right question. The poll should have asked:
"Do you support a reduction in entitlements along with higher contributions to ensure that Medicare and SS do not go bankrupt?"

If Medicare is not fixed it will go bankrupt. So fix it or not. Make the call.

 

[kaz]

It would increase all prices, yes

No. The taxes it would replace are already baked into the price that you pay. You realize corporate taxes are actually in the price of the product? Your income taxes are paid to you through your salary, which is generated by your company's sales, they actually charge for that. Investment taxes ditto. It would actually lower prices because so are all the tax lawyers and disincentives to economic efficiencies created by our tax code. And everyone would pay when they spend, including those who currently evade income taxes.

 

[kaz]

Thanks, but I didn't actually name it. All taxes come out of sales already. Corporate taxes, income taxes, investment taxes, sales taxes. If we replace a myriad of taxes and the overhead that go with them and replace them with a tax that raises the same revenue only without all the accompanying overhead, then yes, that will trigger a boom. The cost of people and businesses complying with all the tax laws and the disincentives our tax laws provide to efficiency alone would dramatically drop prices. It would also make our enormous cash based underground economy taxpayers.

Got a link that it would raise the same amount of revenue?

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

 

[Modbert]

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

A real study done by a non-partisan source. Not your propaganda website.

 

[kaz]

The poor would be hit just as hard as the rich, as they consume, by nature, less and cheaper items.

That's one of the main reasons why a 21% sales tax would never work. You want to complain about high taxation on corporations and the rich but don't mind implementing a system where the poor would be systematically destroyed. 21% of the poor's income and 21% of the rich's income are not even nearly the same.

So for you to say they would be hit just as hard is such a pathetic joke that I can't even laugh at how stupid it is.

The poor are paying those taxes now unless you actually believe that companies don't bake taxes they collect and pay into the price of their products.

 

[kaz]

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

A real study done by a non-partisan source. Not your propaganda website.

Maybe you should understand it before you worry about critiquing it.

 

[Modbert]

Maybe you should understand it before you worry about critiquing it.

I understand it alright. I'm waiting for you give me a non-partisan source to back up your propaganda.

 

[kaz]

Maybe you should understand it before you worry about critiquing it.

I understand it alright. I'm waiting for you give me a non-partisan source to back up your propaganda.

No, you don't understand it. If you can't accurately describe it you don't understand it and there's no point in proceeding with a debate of something you don't understand.

 

[Modbert]

The poor are paying those taxes now unless you actually believe that companies don't bake taxes they collect and pay into the price of their products.

Considering a large % of corporations don't pay federal income tax already, I find it interesting you say that. Does that mean the corporations that get refunds for the federal government are lowering their prices?

 

[Modbert]

No, you don't understand it. If you can't accurately describe it you don't understand it and there's no point in proceeding with a debate of something you don't understand.

I understand it just fine.

This isn't a matter where you can simply say X, Y, Z and expect to not provide any real sources for it. Provide a real source or stop trying to pretend like what you're saying is true.

I'm not about to play the game where we both go back and forth saying that neither of us understand this. Provide a real source for your claims. Simple as that.

 

[kaz]

The poor are paying those taxes now unless you actually believe that companies don't bake taxes they collect and pay into the price of their products.

Considering a large % of corporations don't pay federal income tax already, I find it interesting you say that. Does that mean the corporations that get refunds for the federal government are lowering their prices?

Again demonstrating my point you don't understand it. Corporate tax is only one tax. For those that do pay it, yes, it's baked in. All taxes other then the death tax are baked into the price of products you buy. Income, unemployment, social security, medicare. All of them. To only address corporate demonstrates as I said...you don't understand it.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm advocating for getting rid of tax breaks and loopholes for everyone. EVERYONE, even the leeches.

List the tax breaks and loopholes you are in favor of dropping.

Sounds like all of them. I could get behind that. The only income tax deductions we should allow are for expenses directly related to generating said income. Dump the rest of them - mortgage interest deductions, deductions for dependents, etc, etc...

Rep... for having a brain.

 

[kaz]

No, you don't understand it. If you can't accurately describe it you don't understand it and there's no point in proceeding with a debate of something you don't understand.

I understand it just fine.

This isn't a matter where you can simply say X, Y, Z and expect to not provide any real sources for it. Provide a real source or stop trying to pretend like what you're saying is true.

I'm not about to play the game where we both go back and forth saying that neither of us understand this. Provide a real source for your claims. Simple as that.

OK, let's start with step one. Other then the death tax, can you name any tax that is not baked into the price of products you buy today?

 

[Modbert]

Again demonstrating my point you don't understand it. Corporate tax is only one tax. For those that do pay it, yes, it's baked in. All taxes other then the death tax are baked into the price of products you buy. Income, unemployment, social security, medicare. All of them. To only address corporate demonstrates as I said...you don't understand it.

I realize that there is more than one tax. I never said there wasn't. However I was referring to the income tax specifically for a reason. You seemed to miss my point however. What you are doing however is trying to put words in my mouth.

You still need to demonstrate that a Fair tax would raise the same amount of revenue it would now.

 

[WillowTree]

Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

A real study done by a non-partisan source. Not your propaganda website.

Maybe you should understand it before you worry about critiquing it.

You don't have to take orders from the MODMORON. You provide your source, if he doesn't like it or approve of it it's tough shit for him. He can take it or leave it. You are not obligated to jump through his ******* hoops. Kerry On.

 

[Modbert]

OK, let's start with step one. Other then the death tax, can you name any tax that is not baked into the price of products you buy today?

I'm going to make this very simple. Provide a source to back up your claims, or don't bother trying to have a discussion with me. If you can't be honest enough to back up your claims with evidence, then obviously what you say can't be trusted.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem isn't the EITC or tax cuts, it is deficit spending. I am for abolishing the IRS completely and eliminate the income tax, but that isn't possible until $200 billion a month deficit spending is stopped.

And replacing it with what?

The Fair Tax would cause an economic boom and restore our privacy which is being shredded by the IRS. The only downside of the Fair Tax is it can't be used as a tool to wage war on evil successful people and fascist corporations, but nothing's perfect.

Meanwhile, a large portion of Corporations also don't pay taxes due to loopholes and exemptions. But we can't close those.

Corporate taxes are just double taxes, they should be eliminated. Income is already taxed when it's passed to shareholders. Taxing the same money multiple times is a big part of what's crippling our economy. As Democrats cripple the economy and they don't have new money to go after, they just keep going after the same money again...and again.

First you praise a "Fair tax" which is a consumption tax, and then you condemn corporate taxes which are de fcto consumption taxes because corporations just pass the taxes on in the price to the consumer who buys their products.

If you truly believed a consumption tax was the fairest tax, you would be fighting to have all taxes replaced by corporate taxes!