Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[IndependntLogic]

bripat9643 wrote:
"Bunk. There is no such distinction. Just like stealing, taxation is money taken by force from the person it belongs to. In both cases, something is taken with the consent of the owner. How does to government "buy" the taxes it forces you to pay?

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses them to useless parasites who pay nothing for the privilege of living in this country.

I do understand the difference. You don't incur an obligation simply by being born. Check with the Supreme Court. They will confirm my position on the matter."

Wow. Pretty extreme views.
Yes, you get value for your taxes. It is not stolen from you. You don't pay any taxes for being born here. You usually don't pay any taxes for 16+ years of your life - at least not Income Taxes. But when you start working you pay.
What do you get for your money? Ever drive on a road? You've gotten something for your taxes. Had you garbage picked up? Called a cop or fireman? Safe drinking water? Breathed air that was clean? Hey, how about that electricity thing! We also have a military, btw. I don't think we should spend what we do on it but we have it.
Now I don't necessarily like the VALUE I'm getting for my buch but this is the difference between having someone steal $30K from you and having someone sell you a really crappy car that's worth $10K for $30K. You may not have gotten a good deal but it wasn't theft.
And guess what? You have a choice. I've lived in other countries, including those with MUCH better tax rates. Guess what? I came back. I like living here.
If you don't like this, the solution is simple. Move. Send us all a nice post card from Budapest!

 

[JimH52]

DOESN'T MATTER! The Tea Baggers don't want to do anything about that. The baggers rule, you know?

 

[bripat9643]

bripat9643 wrote:
"Bunk. There is no such distinction. Just like stealing, taxation is money taken by force from the person it belongs to. In both cases, something is taken with the consent of the owner. How does to government "buy" the taxes it forces you to pay?

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses

 

[IndependntLogic]

bripat9643 wrote:

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses

Yes that's lovely. See we have these things. They're just well, they're all over the place. Some are little and others are big. They're called "laws". I've seen them in other places too! Europe, South America, Asia hell they're all over the place! And even if you don't like them, the countries where you're at, still insist that you obey them. They're funny like that.
Now we have tax laws here too. Personally, I think they suck. They're horrible. But I understand that the same obligation that requires people to immigrate legally (doing is what required under US Law) also requires people to pay their taxes. Laws.

 

[Flopper]

Again, This isn't as complex as both sides make it out to be. I own a business. If I need more revenues and I am currently giving billions in discounts to a customer who will pay full price, guess what? No more discounts (that would be corporate handouts). If I'm spending money on NPR because I want an extra tv station, guess what? No more money to NPR.
Both sides bicker about BS that amounts to almost nil in the budget but they wiggle around the obvious.

We also need to increase revenues through personal taxes (this will piss off some people!). We need to increase taxes and not just on the rich. Hell, I'd probably go all the way down to $100K and just add two percent from there up. If I'm making $10K a month and can't get by on $9800, my problem isn't money.
We need to cut expenses and we already blew that one. The biggest mitake we could have made, was just made by BOTH parties - the Defense Budget. We needed to cut that spending not increase it. So now, neither side has ANY credibility with all their bullsht about "We're the ones who will do something about the deficit." There is no way we need to spend more on defense than China, Russia, GB, France, Germany COMBINED. Are we THAT F-cked up??? Please. We need to just get rid of a bunch of government. Didja know we spend hundreds of millions on the "Rural Electrification Agency" (another pet that the GOP for some reason, adores), founded in like, 1920 to make sure rural America got electricity? I think it's outlived its purpose by now. We need to cut a lot of our social programs. Not WIC, Vet benefits etc... so much but people, we have 5th generations of welfare all over the place. WTF?
We need to create some government jobs (Oh Sh1t! ConservaRepubs will attack THIS one!) for two reasons.
1. A construction worker won't CARE if it's a "temporary" 2 year job fixing a freeway. It will feed his family. Hell, the private sector sure isn't hiring anyone and when he gets a check, he might spend some of that money. You know, help the economy.
2. We actually have stuff that needs to be fixed. Our freeways, bridges etc... are falling apart in some places. Why not fix them.
Increase revenues. Cut expenses. Simple stuff but neither side likes it when it goes against what the talking heads from their ideology are selling right now.

Oh yeah. I'd legalize pot too. It's not like we don't need the BILLIONS in taxes that would generate and it would hurt the cartels.

I don't think we need any major tax cuts or increases. We just need to fix the current tax code so it encourages economic growth in the US. Here are some specific changes that in IMHO, would benefit us economically.

1. Personal exemptions: Reduce, phase out, or eliminate the personal exemptions. There was a time when we felt we needed to encourage the growth of families. The more people the better. That meant more consumption. Today, the people that can least afford large families have the most kids. Many if not most of these large families are on some type of government subsidies. I'm not so naive to believe this would have a major impact but I see no reason for the government to encourage large families. A family with 8 kids results in tax exemption and child credit of $46,500. This is one of the major reason half the country doesn't pay any income tax taxes.

2. Capital Gains Tax: Change the capital gains tax which gives investors the same tax break for investing in the US as abroad. There should be less or no tax break for investing abroad.

3. Change taxes on businesses so they can not deduct the cost of shipping American manufacturing abroad. Under the current law, they deduct the cost of firing Americans, shutting down plants, opening plants abroad. This needs to stop.

4. Tax free municipal bonds allow investors to buy bonds from local and state governments and receive tax free interest. This makes it possible for government to borrow money considerably cheaper than American businesses. Why should we be making it cheaper for government to expand at the expense of the private sector? Tax free municipal bonds should be phased out over a 10 to 20 yr period.

I'm sure there are many other deductions and credits that we should eliminate. If we want to keep the process tax neutral we can reduce rates.

 

[skookerasbil]

fcukk the free-loaders...........time to fork over some dough.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Again, This isn't as complex as both sides make it out to be. I own a business. If I need more revenues and I am currently giving billions in discounts to a customer who will pay full price, guess what? No more discounts (that would be corporate handouts). If I'm spending money on NPR because I want an extra tv station, guess what? No more money to NPR.
Both sides bicker about BS that amounts to almost nil in the budget but they wiggle around the obvious.

We also need to increase revenues through personal taxes (this will piss off some people!). We need to increase taxes and not just on the rich. Hell, I'd probably go all the way down to $100K and just add two percent from there up. If I'm making $10K a month and can't get by on $9800, my problem isn't money.
We need to cut expenses and we already blew that one. The biggest mitake we could have made, was just made by BOTH parties - the Defense Budget. We needed to cut that spending not increase it. So now, neither side has ANY credibility with all their bullsht about "We're the ones who will do something about the deficit." There is no way we need to spend more on defense than China, Russia, GB, France, Germany COMBINED. Are we THAT F-cked up??? Please. We need to just get rid of a bunch of government. Didja know we spend hundreds of millions on the "Rural Electrification Agency" (another pet that the GOP for some reason, adores), founded in like, 1920 to make sure rural America got electricity? I think it's outlived its purpose by now. We need to cut a lot of our social programs. Not WIC, Vet benefits etc... so much but people, we have 5th generations of welfare all over the place. WTF?
We need to create some government jobs (Oh Sh1t! ConservaRepubs will attack THIS one!) for two reasons.
1. A construction worker won't CARE if it's a "temporary" 2 year job fixing a freeway. It will feed his family. Hell, the private sector sure isn't hiring anyone and when he gets a check, he might spend some of that money. You know, help the economy.
2. We actually have stuff that needs to be fixed. Our freeways, bridges etc... are falling apart in some places. Why not fix them.
Increase revenues. Cut expenses. Simple stuff but neither side likes it when it goes against what the talking heads from their ideology are selling right now.

Oh yeah. I'd legalize pot too. It's not like we don't need the BILLIONS in taxes that would generate and it would hurt the cartels.

I don't think we need any major tax cuts or increases. We just need to fix the current tax code so it encourages economic growth in the US. Here are some specific changes that in IMHO, would benefit us economically.

1. Personal exemptions: Reduce, phase out, or eliminate the personal exemptions. There was a time when we felt we needed to encourage the growth of families. The more people the better. That meant more consumption. Today, the people that can least afford large families have the most kids. Many if not most of these large families are on some type of government subsidies. I'm not so naive to believe this would have a major impact but I see no reason for the government to encourage large families. A family with 8 kids results in tax exemption and child credit of $46,500. This is one of the major reason half the country doesn't pay any income tax taxes.

2. Capital Gains Tax: Change the capital gains tax which gives investors the same tax break for investing in the US as abroad. There should be less or no tax break for investing abroad.

3. Change taxes on businesses so they can not deduct the cost of shipping American manufacturing abroad. Under the current law, they deduct the cost of firing Americans, shutting down plants, opening plants abroad. This needs to stop.

4. Tax free municipal bonds allow investors to buy bonds from local and state governments and receive tax free interest. This makes it possible for government to borrow money considerably cheaper than American businesses. Why should we be making it cheaper for government to expand at the expense of the private sector? Tax free municipal bonds should be phased out over a 10 to 20 yr period.

I'm sure there are many other deductions and credits that we should eliminate. If we want to keep the process tax neutral we can reduce rates.

A logical and reasonable posts.

1. I would grandfather in the exemptions for those already having kids and keep them in place in that, I would allow one for single, two for married and three for married with kid(s).

2. Agree completely.

3. Absolutely agree!

4. Agree.

Also: Would bring back consumer interest deduction for American products. Buy a Ford, GM or Chrysler? Deduct the interest! Buy a Lexus or Mercedes, so sorry. Enjoy your car but the tax is written to benefit in America. Buy a Gateway computer? Deduction! Buy a Toshiba? Nope. Buy a GE tv? Deduct! and so on. Think about the surge in American product sales.

 

[thereisnospoon]

bripat9643 wrote:
"Bunk. There is no such distinction. Just like stealing, taxation is money taken by force from the person it belongs to. In both cases, something is taken with the consent of the owner. How does to government "buy" the taxes it forces you to pay?

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses them to useless parasites who pay nothing for the privilege of living in this country.

I do understand the difference. You don't incur an obligation simply by being born. Check with the Supreme Court. They will confirm my position on the matter."

Wow. Pretty extreme views.
Yes, you get value for your taxes. It is not stolen from you. You don't pay any taxes for being born here. You usually don't pay any taxes for 16+ years of your life - at least not Income Taxes. But when you start working you pay.
What do you get for your money? Ever drive on a road? You've gotten something for your taxes. Had you garbage picked up? Called a cop or fireman? Safe drinking water? Breathed air that was clean? Hey, how about that electricity thing! We also have a military, btw. I don't think we should spend what we do on it but we have it.
Now I don't necessarily like the VALUE I'm getting for my buch but this is the difference between having someone steal $30K from you and having someone sell you a really crappy car that's worth $10K for $30K. You may not have gotten a good deal but it wasn't theft.
And guess what? You have a choice. I've lived in other countries, including those with MUCH better tax rates. Guess what? I came back. I like living here.
If you don't like this, the solution is simple. Move. Send us all a nice post card from Budapest!

Ok...If we do not pay taxes for being born here, then why use words such as "obligation" and phrases such as "pay the price of"?
Your side is using the last resort. You are using the straw man argument that we believe all taxation should be abolished. That's not true and I really wish you people would just stop that nonsense.
I'll go through you list of govt functions one by one.
First let's clear up the public safety issue. That is an essential function of government.
Next, infrastructure. Also an essential form of government. Unfortunately most highway funds are raided by states for other purposes.
The issue is fiscal responsibility. The federal government has far too many fingers in far too many pies. And as a result, way too many employees, who become pensioners....All on the taxpayer dime.

 

[IndependntLogic]

bripat9643 wrote:
"Bunk. There is no such distinction. Just like stealing, taxation is money taken by force from the person it belongs to. In both cases, something is taken with the consent of the owner. How does to government "buy" the taxes it forces you to pay?

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses them to useless parasites who pay nothing for the privilege of living in this country.

I do understand the difference. You don't incur an obligation simply by being born. Check with the Supreme Court. They will confirm my position on the matter."

Wow. Pretty extreme views.
Yes, you get value for your taxes. It is not stolen from you. You don't pay any taxes for being born here. You usually don't pay any taxes for 16+ years of your life - at least not Income Taxes. But when you start working you pay.
What do you get for your money? Ever drive on a road? You've gotten something for your taxes. Had you garbage picked up? Called a cop or fireman? Safe drinking water? Breathed air that was clean? Hey, how about that electricity thing! We also have a military, btw. I don't think we should spend what we do on it but we have it.
Now I don't necessarily like the VALUE I'm getting for my buch but this is the difference between having someone steal $30K from you and having someone sell you a really crappy car that's worth $10K for $30K. You may not have gotten a good deal but it wasn't theft.
And guess what? You have a choice. I've lived in other countries, including those with MUCH better tax rates. Guess what? I came back. I like living here.
If you don't like this, the solution is simple. Move. Send us all a nice post card from Budapest!

Ok...If we do not pay taxes for being born here, then why use words such as "obligation" and phrases such as "pay the price of"?
Your side is using the last resort. You are using the straw man argument that we believe all taxation should be abolished. That's not true and I really wish you people would just stop that nonsense.
I'll go through you list of govt functions one by one.
First let's clear up the public safety issue. That is an essential function of government.
Next, infrastructure. Also an essential form of government. Unfortunately most highway funds are raided by states for other purposes.
The issue is fiscal responsibility. The federal government has far too many fingers in far too many pies. And as a result, way too many employees, who become pensioners....All on the taxpayer dime.

Actually, the poster to whom I was replying, stated his opinion quite clearly: All taxes are stealing. There is no difference between someone stealing your car and the government taxing you for any purpose whatsoever.

So I wasn't using a strawman, I as replying directly to the statement made.

We people? You callin me a nidder, honkey!?!?!? (J/K) But who are the "you people" you are grouping me in with?

I don't dispute your basic functions of government but I would venture a guess we might differ on how we define them. Which is cool by me. One of the wonderful things about Free Speech is we can say what we want.

 

[thereisnospoon]

bripat9643 wrote:
"Bunk. There is no such distinction. Just like stealing, taxation is money taken by force from the person it belongs to. In both cases, something is taken with the consent of the owner. How does to government "buy" the taxes it forces you to pay?

ROFL! Why should anyone born in American be obligated to pay for it? When did anyone incur this obligation? Even if there was such an obligation, how does that include paying for welfare, Social Security and Medicare? There is nothing called "America" that has a legal or moral title to the "resources" that exist withing the borders of the United States. Abstractions don't have rights. Property is owned by individuals, corporations or the government, and most of what the latter owns is retained illigitimately.

Furthermore, you don't pay taxes to "America." You pay taxes to the federal government, which then disburses them to useless parasites who pay nothing for the privilege of living in this country.

I do understand the difference. You don't incur an obligation simply by being born. Check with the Supreme Court. They will confirm my position on the matter."

Wow. Pretty extreme views.
Yes, you get value for your taxes. It is not stolen from you. You don't pay any taxes for being born here. You usually don't pay any taxes for 16+ years of your life - at least not Income Taxes. But when you start working you pay.
What do you get for your money? Ever drive on a road? You've gotten something for your taxes. Had you garbage picked up? Called a cop or fireman? Safe drinking water? Breathed air that was clean? Hey, how about that electricity thing! We also have a military, btw. I don't think we should spend what we do on it but we have it.
Now I don't necessarily like the VALUE I'm getting for my buch but this is the difference between having someone steal $30K from you and having someone sell you a really crappy car that's worth $10K for $30K. You may not have gotten a good deal but it wasn't theft.
And guess what? You have a choice. I've lived in other countries, including those with MUCH better tax rates. Guess what? I came back. I like living here.
If you don't like this, the solution is simple. Move. Send us all a nice post card from Budapest!

Ok...If we do not pay taxes for being born here, then why use words such as "obligation" and phrases such as "pay the price of"?
Your side is using the last resort. You are using the straw man argument that we believe all taxation should be abolished. That's not true and I really wish you people would just stop that nonsense.
I'll go through you list of govt functions one by one.
First let's clear up the public safety issue. That is an essential function of government.
Next, infrastructure. Also an essential form of government. Unfortunately most highway funds are raided by states for other purposes.
The issue is fiscal responsibility. The federal government has far too many fingers in far too many pies. And as a result, way too many employees, who become pensioners....All on the taxpayer dime.

Actually, the poster to whom I was replying, stated his opinion quite clearly: All taxes are stealing. There is no difference between someone stealing your car and the government taxing you for any purpose whatsoever.

So I wasn't using a strawman, I as replying directly to the statement made.

We people? You callin me a nidder, honkey!?!?!? (J/K) But who are the "you people" you are grouping me in with?

I don't dispute your basic functions of government but I would venture a guess we might differ on how we define them. Which is cool by me. One of the wonderful things about Free Speech is we can say what we want.

Remember that incident when Ross Perot was speaking to an audience made up of mostly black college students and use the phrase "you people"?. He was about to tell them about how they could be the achievers. No, a woman screamed "rephrase it!!!".
The headline on the front page of the NY Daily news was in huge block type and it of course said "You People"...Then the story went on to pillory Perot for his political incorrectness. I just love hypersensitivity.
Perhaps I was responding to the wrong person. The way the quotes in the boxes were displayed, it makes it hard to see who is posting to whom.
In any event I was referring to those on the political Left.
About free speech...You are wrong. Freedom of speech is not absolute.
While one may have the right to say as they wish, others have the right to find what another says to be unacceptable.
For example. I cannot hang a banner in the town square that says, "the Mayor is a ***"....Yes that's free speech but the town's people can and should go through channels to have the banner removed.
In any event. I sit squarely on the side of fiscal responsibility and government operating within the boundaries of said responsibility.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Ok...If we do not pay taxes for being born here, then why use words such as "obligation" and phrases such as "pay the price of"?
Your side is using the last resort. You are using the straw man argument that we believe all taxation should be abolished. That's not true and I really wish you people would just stop that nonsense.
I'll go through you list of govt functions one by one.
First let's clear up the public safety issue. That is an essential function of government.
Next, infrastructure. Also an essential form of government. Unfortunately most highway funds are raided by states for other purposes.
The issue is fiscal responsibility. The federal government has far too many fingers in far too many pies. And as a result, way too many employees, who become pensioners....All on the taxpayer dime.

Actually, the poster to whom I was replying, stated his opinion quite clearly: All taxes are stealing. There is no difference between someone stealing your car and the government taxing you for any purpose whatsoever.

So I wasn't using a strawman, I as replying directly to the statement made.

We people? You callin me a nidder, honkey!?!?!? (J/K) But who are the "you people" you are grouping me in with?

I don't dispute your basic functions of government but I would venture a guess we might differ on how we define them. Which is cool by me. One of the wonderful things about Free Speech is we can say what we want.

Remember that incident when Ross Perot was speaking to an audience made up of mostly black college students and use the phrase "you people"?. He was about to tell them about how they could be the achievers. No, a woman screamed "rephrase it!!!".
The headline on the front page of the NY Daily news was in huge block type and it of course said "You People"...Then the story went on to pillory Perot for his political incorrectness. I just love hypersensitivity.
Perhaps I was responding to the wrong person. The way the quotes in the boxes were displayed, it makes it hard to see who is posting to whom.
In any event I was referring to those on the political Left.
About free speech...You are wrong. Freedom of speech is not absolute.
While one may have the right to say as they wish, others have the right to find what another says to be unacceptable.
For example. I cannot hang a banner in the town square that says, "the Mayor is a ***"....Yes that's free speech but the town's people can and should go through channels to have the banner removed.
In any event. I sit squarely on the side of fiscal responsibility and government operating within the boundaries of said responsibility.

1. What specifically is it that has led you to conclude I am on the Political Left?
2. I never said Freedom of Speech is absolute. Will it be necessary to point out that there are exceptions to almost anything that can be said, every time I make a statement? I would hope not.

 

[Big Fitz]

If raising taxes on the "rich" tamps down the economy by providing fewer dollars for consumer spending, what will raising taxes on the poor, who do most of the consumer spending because there are so many more of us than the 'rich', effect the engine that drives our economy?

you're advocating a massive tax cut on the rich and a massive tax increase on the poor.

I wonder how Conservatives came to be seen as 'mean spirited'?

then if you don't want to pay any income tax, don't make any money.

This is is still nothing more than envy justifying theft.

I wonder how liberals seem compassionate?

 

[saveliberty]

Actually, the poster to whom I was replying, stated his opinion quite clearly: All taxes are stealing. There is no difference between someone stealing your car and the government taxing you for any purpose whatsoever.

So I wasn't using a strawman, I as replying directly to the statement made.

We people? You callin me a nidder, honkey!?!?!? (J/K) But who are the "you people" you are grouping me in with?

I don't dispute your basic functions of government but I would venture a guess we might differ on how we define them. Which is cool by me. One of the wonderful things about Free Speech is we can say what we want.

Actually it WAS a strawman. The OP states,"Fixing Tax loopholes, 51% of Americans pay no INCOME TAXES".

Even in your first post of this thread at #708 you made this statement, "We need to increase revenues. We need to increase taxes and not just on the rich. Hell, I'd probably go all the way down to $100K and just add two percent from there up."

You restated this in post #766.

Free speech does allow you to say what you want. It also allows us to shread your worthless speech by showing your dishonesty and fiction based responses.

Your a left wing loon.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Of course, liberals want free money, they want the best of everything but are unwilling to educate themselves with a skill thats in high demand that will naturally subsidize their greed so they demand others subsidize their greed, because you know - its no fair that others have more or better than they do....

They're like ******* children, but unlike children liberals are unable to learn.

Using their ******* logic a homeless man is justified in breaking into a liberals home and stealing their shit because they have more than he does...... No, no - they would prefer the government redistributes OTHER PEOPLES WEALTH to them as a form of "legal" and lazy stealing...

In short liberals want something for nothing....

Yea a poor dumbass liberal may pay taxes but that fool knows "its" getting that money back (plus) more in social entitlements..

Of course these fools never look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves why the **** they believe they're entitled to what others have earned...

 

[DiamondDave]

I almost started a thread about this because its so funny.

Half of Americans pay no federal income taxes, conservatives have picked up on this and are outraged (ironically)

and, more ironcially, that can't be changed because the Republicans have signed a pledge not to raise ANY taxes ANY time for ANY reason.

It's not raising taxes as much as ending grants if all you do is give them back what they paid in. It's a start.

Of course the best way is to go to a 10% or so flat tax with no exemptions, and move election days to tax days so they always associate taxes with who they vote for. You'd increase revenue and end so much social engineering bullshit.

If raising taxes on the "rich" tamps down the economy by providing fewer dollars for consumer spending, what will raising taxes on the poor, who do most of the consumer spending because there are so many more of us than the 'rich', effect the engine that drives our economy?

you're advocating a massive tax cut on the rich and a massive tax increase on the poor.

I wonder how Conservatives came to be seen as 'mean spirited'?

Oh... because equal treatment is SO unfair... well. .unless it does something FOR YOU, then you scream for it... selective equal treatment... the mating call of the liberal

 

[Chris]

Reagan the two Bushes lowered taxes for the rich. They transferred trillions of dollars of wealth to the rich, and now they want the middle class taxpayer to pay for it with cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

Taking from the old and sick and giving to the rich.

The Republican Party is Robin Hood in reverse.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Reagan the two Bushes lowered taxes for the rich. They transferred trillions of dollars of wealth to the rich, and now they want the middle class taxpayer to pay for it with cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

Taking from the old and sick and giving to the rich.

The Republican Party is Robin Hood in reverse.

In what universe is wealth finite??

If everyone is productive - or at least those that are capable of being productive I dont see a ******* problem...

Oh yeah, democrats pay fools to sit on their asses all day just as long as they vote democrat and then they tell them the fact they're lazy and retarded is because republicans hate them and democrats love them because they give them free money to sit on their asses all day.

Of course productive Americans work and pay for their lazy ass bills.....

I've seen the shit first hand - as a matter of fact I live around that garbage - Obamas voting base.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Actually, the poster to whom I was replying, stated his opinion quite clearly: All taxes are stealing. There is no difference between someone stealing your car and the government taxing you for any purpose whatsoever.

So I wasn't using a strawman, I as replying directly to the statement made.

We people? You callin me a nidder, honkey!?!?!? (J/K) But who are the "you people" you are grouping me in with?

I don't dispute your basic functions of government but I would venture a guess we might differ on how we define them. Which is cool by me. One of the wonderful things about Free Speech is we can say what we want.

Actually it WAS a strawman. The OP states,"Fixing Tax loopholes, 51% of Americans pay no INCOME TAXES".

Even in your first post of this thread at #708 you made this statement, "We need to increase revenues. We need to increase taxes and not just on the rich. Hell, I'd probably go all the way down to $100K and just add two percent from there up."

You restated this in post #766.

Free speech does allow you to say what you want. It also allows us to shread your worthless speech by showing your dishonesty and fiction based responses.

Your a left wing loon.

Let's see if I understand your logic.

By the time I expressed a few of my thoughts, the matter had been discussed quite a bit.
Now maybe you'r new to this whole "internet thing" but sometimes there will be an OP and it will, well, just go off in all kinds of darned directions. Perhaps you'd like the government to come in and make sure that no one diverts?
So in any case, by the time I got here, lots of stuff had been discussed including cutting costs, raising taxes, flat taxes, UFO's and monkey butts.
So I wrote my opinion. Apparently, this has um, upset you.
Then I responded to a gentleman who said that ALL taxes were stealing. This also upset you.
Finally I aknowledged that you had a valid point and that even then, our views might differ.
This upset you.
You're really quite emotional, aren't you?
Would you prefer to just tell me the opinion you'd like me to give?
In the meantime, those of us who can reasonably, civilly and intelligently discuss topics - (even with those of differing opinions!) will do so. That is Free Speech and I rather enjoy it.
You may now continue to express your highly intelligent points about um, well, ah yes. Why I am a "Left Wing Loon".

 

[editec]

Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

That's a tax loophole you too can easily enjoy.

Just don't make much money and learn to live with less.

That's how those damned POOR that you so obviously hate do it.

 

[bripat9643]

Reagan the two Bushes lowered taxes for the rich. They transferred trillions of dollars of wealth to the rich, and now they want the middle class taxpayer to pay for it with cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

Taking from the old and sick and giving to the rich.

The Republican Party is Robin Hood in reverse.

Bush Sr raised taxes, dipstick.

Lowering taxes doesn't not transfer wealth to the rich. It reduces the amount transfered to tics on the ass of society like you.