Five reasons Christians should read the Book of Mormon

[Meriweather]

Meri, I know what Catholics believe, but it is a wrong belief according to Jesus. Do you also reject Jesus use of saved?

I suspect if you give me a passage, you and I will have a different understanding of what it means.

By the way, Happy New Year! (forgot to add that to the last post)

 

[Inevitable]

Meri, I know what Catholics believe, but it is a wrong belief according to Jesus. Do you also reject Jesus use of saved?

Everybody's beliefs are wrong.

 

[Inevitable]

hi Mer, HNY. The difference between Catholics and Protestants is RC's do good works to try to earn salvation, and we do them BECAUSE we are saved. BIG difference.

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

Also, I have asked you before if you are saved and you said you hope so, don't know, its up to God etc.... which proves that YOU HOPE you are "good enough" to be saved, go to Heaven etc... which proves my point. It isn't based on our performance or obedience.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

 

[Darkwind]

1) it was written to persuade men to come to Christ.
2) it proves God is active in the world and remembers His covenants.
3) it plainly teaches the Doctrine of Christ and the Father's plan of Happiness.
4) it contains an account of Christ's ministry among the natives.
5) it can bring men closer to God.

there are many additional reasons. But that's the start of my list

I have found that devout Christians (I'm a Christian but don't follow any church dogma) are every bit as closed-minded as any Muslim, Jew, Hindi, or Maoist.

It serves little purpose to lock you mind in rigidity given some of the historical teachings of the churches.

I don't think that Mormons or the faithless are any better.

 

[Meriweather]

I have found that devout Christians (I'm a Christian but don't follow any church dogma) are every bit as closed-minded as any Muslim, Jew, Hindi, or Maoist.

It serves little purpose to lock you mind in rigidity given some of the historical teachings of the churches.

I don't think that Mormons or the faithless are any better.

Following doctrines of a faith is not intended to be about control or rigidity. Rather, it is about discipline, and self discipline at that.

 

[ninja007]

hi Mer, HNY. The difference between Catholics and Protestants is RC's do good works to try to earn salvation, and we do them BECAUSE we are saved. BIG difference.

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

Also, I have asked you before if you are saved and you said you hope so, don't know, its up to God etc.... which proves that YOU HOPE you are "good enough" to be saved, go to Heaven etc... which proves my point. It isn't based on our performance or obedience.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

 

[Inevitable]

hi Mer, HNY. The difference between Catholics and Protestants is RC's do good works to try to earn salvation, and we do them BECAUSE we are saved. BIG difference.

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

Also, I have asked you before if you are saved and you said you hope so, don't know, its up to God etc.... which proves that YOU HOPE you are "good enough" to be saved, go to Heaven etc... which proves my point. It isn't based on our performance or obedience.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

Tell me why it's wrong. If you just say it is wrong and then run away, that isn't really much of anything.

So I have you a protestant tool telling me that the protestant church doesn't have messed up theology. I'm sorry you simply aren't credible. So I'm not wrong until you can prove it.

 

[ninja007]

hi Mer, HNY. The difference between Catholics and Protestants is RC's do good works to try to earn salvation, and we do them BECAUSE we are saved. BIG difference.

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

Also, I have asked you before if you are saved and you said you hope so, don't know, its up to God etc.... which proves that YOU HOPE you are "good enough" to be saved, go to Heaven etc... which proves my point. It isn't based on our performance or obedience.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

Tell me why it's wrong. If you just say it is wrong and then run away, that isn't really much of anything.

So I have you a protestant tool telling me that the protestant church doesn't have messed up theology. I'm sorry you simply aren't credible. So I'm not wrong until you can prove it.

I go over this with the Catholics all the time. Protestant's don't believe because we are saved for sure that we can just sin, sin, sin as much as we want. Protestant's can say the same about Catholics because they can live like hell in between confessionals to a sinful Priest (who btw cannot forgive sins- only Jesus can).

Back to the point, Protestant's believe Jesus took care of ALL our sin at the Cross- He did. When we do fall or sin, His blood has our sins covered- God the Father does not see them because His Son paid our sin penalty in FULL. We Protestant's believe in these passages of the Word;



Romans 6 New International Version (NIV)

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,a]">[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Slaves to Righteousness

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Better understand our thinking?

 

[Friends]

I was proselytized by two Mormon missionaries when I was nineteen years old. I actually hoped that Mormonism was true. However, I was determined to evaluate Mormonism rationally. My attitude was that Mormon lended itself to a rational evaluation in ways the other great religions did not.

It is impossible to know if Jesus rose the dead, and rose from the dead himself after dying on the cross. It is impossible to know if the Angel Gabriel dictated the Koran to Mohammed.

The Angel Moroni either gave Joseph Smith the golden plates or he did not. The Book of Mormon makes assertions that can be independently verified, or disproved. Either it is an accurate history of pre Columbian America from about 500 B.C. to 300 A.D., or it is not.

If the events recorded in the Book of Mormon happened, there will be archaeological evidence that they happened, as there is archaeological evidence that many of the events recorded in the Bible happened.

Unfortunately for me, because I really wanted to become a Mormon, there is no evidence that any of the events in the Book of Mormon happened. Mormons like to connect American Indian civilizations with the civilizations written about in the Book of Mormon, but American Indian civilizations have no evidence of being affected by the civilizations of the Mid East, as they would if the New World was settled by Jewish immigrants, as the Book of Mormon claims.

When I learned about the Book of Abraham I knew that Joseph Smith was a charlatan. Joseph Smith bought an ancient Egyptian manuscript from an English visitor. He claimed to translate the ancient Egyptian manuscript. He claimed that it was a first person account written by Abraham about his travels in Egypt.

After Joseph Smith claimed to translate the manuscript, the manuscript was lost. It has since been found. It has been translated by credible Egyptian scholars. Their translations have nothing in common with the supposed translation by Joseph Smith.

 

[Inevitable]

hi Mer, HNY. The difference between Catholics and Protestants is RC's do good works to try to earn salvation, and we do them BECAUSE we are saved. BIG difference.

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

Also, I have asked you before if you are saved and you said you hope so, don't know, its up to God etc.... which proves that YOU HOPE you are "good enough" to be saved, go to Heaven etc... which proves my point. It isn't based on our performance or obedience.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

Tell me why it's wrong. If you just say it is wrong and then run away, that isn't really much of anything.

So I have you a protestant tool telling me that the protestant church doesn't have messed up theology. I'm sorry you simply aren't credible. So I'm not wrong until you can prove it.

I go over this with the Catholics all the time. Protestant's don't believe because we are saved for sure that we can just sin, sin, sin as much as we want. Protestant's can say the same about Catholics because they can live like hell in between confessionals to a sinful Priest (who btw cannot forgive sins- only Jesus can).

Yeah protestants and Catholics argue about nonsense constantly. Silly tit for tat childish crap.

Back to the point, Protestant's believe Jesus took care of ALL our sin at the Cross- He did. When we do fall or sin, His blood has our sins covered- God the Father does not see them because His Son paid our sin penalty in FULL. We Protestant's believe in these passages of the Word;

Does he have a limit to how much sin he will shed his blood for? If not than tress you absolutely believe you can sin infinitely and still have forgiveness.

 

[ninja007]

You mistake discipleship as "trying to earn salvation." Remember, unlike some Protestants, Catholics do not believe "saved" happens in a single instance of time. Rather, salvation is a way of life, a way we choose to live every day of our life. Salvation/redemption is not the Protestant idea that in a single instance they are guaranteed, after death, a place in heaven.

The Catholic belief is that one enters into salvation, redemption, the kingdom in this life and this salvation, redemption, kingdom continues into the next life. Catholics recognize the balance between God's promises and God's final judgment. We do not tell God our place in eternity. Rather, we trust His promises and His final judgment.

I probably said (as I usually do) that I pretty much reject the term "saved" as used and defined by Protestants. Redeemed is more precise, as is The Way of Salvation. Also remember the Catholic definition of "hope". In Catholicism, hope is defined not as an unknown wish, but as an expectation. The reason I live salvation and choose to live a redeemed life is because the way of salvation/redemption gives me the hope (expectation) of a more abundant life here and now--and I have the expectation (hope) of eternal life.

Next time the Protestant idea of "earning salvation" comes to mind, ask yourself how a person can earn the road on which they are already traveling. The road of salvation is open to everyone--so that cannot be "earned" either.

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

Tell me why it's wrong. If you just say it is wrong and then run away, that isn't really much of anything.

So I have you a protestant tool telling me that the protestant church doesn't have messed up theology. I'm sorry you simply aren't credible. So I'm not wrong until you can prove it.

I go over this with the Catholics all the time. Protestant's don't believe because we are saved for sure that we can just sin, sin, sin as much as we want. Protestant's can say the same about Catholics because they can live like hell in between confessionals to a sinful Priest (who btw cannot forgive sins- only Jesus can).

Yeah protestants and Catholics argue about nonsense constantly. Silly tit for tat childish crap.

Back to the point, Protestant's believe Jesus took care of ALL our sin at the Cross- He did. When we do fall or sin, His blood has our sins covered- God the Father does not see them because His Son paid our sin penalty in FULL. We Protestant's believe in these passages of the Word;

Does he have a limit to how much sin he will shed his blood for? If not than tress you absolutely believe you can sin infinitely and still have forgiveness.

The Holy Spirit indwells the Believer. Sin becomes less and less over a Believer's life in MOST areas. Of course we sin till the day we die or are raptured but sin becomes less, Jesus becomes more. And no, Protestant's and Catholics are as far apart on IMPORTANT DOCTRINE as you can get. Most Catholics are not even SAVED/BELIEVER'S.

 

[Inevitable]

I tend to lean toward the more Catholic standing on this particular issue.

Seems some of the protestant beliefs are just accept Christ and you are saved. Than sin to your heart's content.

100% wrong. But you knew that.

Tell me why it's wrong. If you just say it is wrong and then run away, that isn't really much of anything.

So I have you a protestant tool telling me that the protestant church doesn't have messed up theology. I'm sorry you simply aren't credible. So I'm not wrong until you can prove it.

I go over this with the Catholics all the time. Protestant's don't believe because we are saved for sure that we can just sin, sin, sin as much as we want. Protestant's can say the same about Catholics because they can live like hell in between confessionals to a sinful Priest (who btw cannot forgive sins- only Jesus can).

Yeah protestants and Catholics argue about nonsense constantly. Silly tit for tat childish crap.

Back to the point, Protestant's believe Jesus took care of ALL our sin at the Cross- He did. When we do fall or sin, His blood has our sins covered- God the Father does not see them because His Son paid our sin penalty in FULL. We Protestant's believe in these passages of the Word;

Does he have a limit to how much sin he will shed his blood for? If not than tress you absolutely believe you can sin infinitely and still have forgiveness.

The Holy Spirit indwells the Believer. Sin becomes less and less over a Believer's life in MOST areas. Of course we sin till the day we die or are raptured but sin becomes less, Jesus becomes more. And no, Protestant's and Catholics are as far apart on IMPORTANT DOCTRINE as you can get. Most Catholics are not even SAVED/BELIEVER'S.

I don't really care about how you feel about Catholics. As far as I'm concerned you are both full of shit.