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Because we are looking at one-shot-stop percentages.Why would the stats for the hollow points for a 9 mm and a .45 be the same?
Without knowing the methodologies used (and it says the data is from multiple sources), it is impossible to determine the statistical significance of that gap.But the are both not 100%. they are about 91%.
hollow points expand, exerting stopping power. conventional rounds don't expand, exerting penetrating power.
The 9mm rounds listed in the chart are JHP +P, meaning high-power hollow-point (read:expanding) rounds, while the .45 acp are standard-load rounds. Note that the standard .45 acp JHP functioned statistically identical to the 9mm JHP +P rounds.I am a bit confused.
I did some research and found this chart.
Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version
I have a Glock 19, 9 mm.
According to the chart the 9x19 has more % One Stop Shot than almost all the .45s and .40s mentioned.
How is that possible?
Obviously, the bullet type varies a bit.
In other words, they were comparing the most-expensive 9mm rounds money can buy to run-of-the-mill .45 acp rounds.
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This is why these caliber discussions are rather obsolete. With the introduction of "glaser" ammunition, a tiny .38 glaser can do as much (if not more) tissue damage as a .45 FMJ.
Yes, the glaser round is filled with birdshot that is released upon impact. Each glaser round is like firing a small-bore shotgun into your target at point-blank range.
If you look online, there are many stores that stock the ammo, but it is still rather expensive, as the inventors still maintain their patent rights. Though I can't vouch for their customer service, a quick search turned up these stores:Where's a good place to buy glaser ammo? Is there a good mail order place?
sorry, i wasn't paying great attention.I know. Both are hollow points.
hollow points expand, exerting stopping power. conventional rounds don't expand, exerting penetrating power.
Hollow points expand and that causes more damage (normally through the tearing and severing of blood vessels), there is however no such thing as stopping power. For someone to be stopped by a bullet they have to either drop do to shock (the physiological kind) or because of pain. Or simply a morale fail, some people just don't like getting shot!
The only 100% way someone drops is through exanguination (bleeding out). Bigger bullets do more blood vessel damage so causing more rapid blood loss. People love to point out how big the temporary wound cavity is but they seem to forget that it is temporary! The only thing that really matters is the permanent wound cavity. The bigger the permanent wound cavity the worse off (and the better off you are) the bad guy is.
The most important factor in all of those charts is where the bullet struck the target....and for the vast majority of them that data isn't included, so any chart that doesn't have that data is pretty much useless. Someone shot in the head by a .45 ball is going to be stopped far more frequently than someone shot in the foot by the most expensive hollow point.
stopping power is quite realistic, i'd say. used properly, that is multiple deployments of rounds to the abdomen, the relative stopping power of a .22 and .45 pistol is measurable and very real. such power can make a life or death difference for the person trying to defend himself. it will stop an approach; it will stop or mitigate the opponent's use of a gun or knife.
hollow points expand, exerting stopping power. conventional rounds don't expand, exerting penetrating power.
Hollow points expand and that causes more damage (normally through the tearing and severing of blood vessels), there is however no such thing as stopping power. For someone to be stopped by a bullet they have to either drop do to shock (the physiological kind) or because of pain. Or simply a morale fail, some people just don't like getting shot!
The only 100% way someone drops is through exanguination (bleeding out). Bigger bullets do more blood vessel damage so causing more rapid blood loss. People love to point out how big the temporary wound cavity is but they seem to forget that it is temporary! The only thing that really matters is the permanent wound cavity. The bigger the permanent wound cavity the worse off (and the better off you are) the bad guy is.
The most important factor in all of those charts is where the bullet struck the target....and for the vast majority of them that data isn't included, so any chart that doesn't have that data is pretty much useless. Someone shot in the head by a .45 ball is going to be stopped far more frequently than someone shot in the foot by the most expensive hollow point.
buck shot from a succession of 12 gauge shots will topple a porta-potty. there is such a thing.
Antagon,
buck shot from a succession of 12 gauge shots will topple a porta-potty. there is such a thing.
Simple Newtonian Physics tells us there isn't. There is so little difference between a .45 and a .22 (other than the size of hole they make) that shot placement is the single most important factor when dealing with solid projectiles. I could go on and on about the relative values for projectiles and their effects but it would bore people to tears. If you do want to do some digging on your own I suggest you head to the local university library and check out the Journal of Trauma. They have numerous very scientific articles about bullets and their effects for the surgeons who have to patch the people up in their hospitals.
Glaser Safety Slugs do exhibit a form of stopping power however. They will transfer 100% of their energy into a target provided the affected area is the torso or head. A strike to the limbs on the other hand will have virtually no effect (other than the destruction of that particular area) but the energy transferred is still limited by Newtonian Physics to what the actual energy level is, the recoil energy minus the loss due to velocity loss.
this is a lethality assessment, not stopping power, though, CMike.
Antagon,
buck shot from a succession of 12 gauge shots will topple a porta-potty. there is such a thing.
Simple Newtonian Physics tells us there isn't. There is so little difference between a .45 and a .22 (other than the size of hole they make) that shot placement is the single most important factor when dealing with solid projectiles. I could go on and on about the relative values for projectiles and their effects but it would bore people to tears. If you do want to do some digging on your own I suggest you head to the local university library and check out the Journal of Trauma. They have numerous very scientific articles about bullets and their effects for the surgeons who have to patch the people up in their hospitals.
Glaser Safety Slugs do exhibit a form of stopping power however. They will transfer 100% of their energy into a target provided the affected area is the torso or head. A strike to the limbs on the other hand will have virtually no effect (other than the destruction of that particular area) but the energy transferred is still limited by Newtonian Physics to what the actual energy level is, the recoil energy minus the loss due to velocity loss.
i dont believe in fancy gimmick bullets or careful shot placement for hand-guns. since i'm not an assassin, or in a movie, none of that has anything to do with how i might use my pistol in a time of need. at the range, i try to tighten groups of five or so (4 and 3 w/ the 1911) to the massive abdomen area. many times more effective lethality than any one silly magsafe round.
some simple physics is newtons third. have you fired a 12 gauge slug? something like 28grams at 1500fps? equal and opposite reactions. my shotgun is an automatic, so i'm cheating with the recoil, the target is not cheating. it faces (82lbs.*ft)/s momentum from each slug. do you mean to say that that is the same as a 1100fps 8 gram 9mm?
where momentum=m*v, you get (19.36lbs*ft)/s from the 9. no wonder my baby 9 doesn't have a stalk. no wonder some guns dont have as much stopping power as others.
Antagon,
Simple Newtonian Physics tells us there isn't. There is so little difference between a .45 and a .22 (other than the size of hole they make) that shot placement is the single most important factor when dealing with solid projectiles. I could go on and on about the relative values for projectiles and their effects but it would bore people to tears. If you do want to do some digging on your own I suggest you head to the local university library and check out the Journal of Trauma. They have numerous very scientific articles about bullets and their effects for the surgeons who have to patch the people up in their hospitals.
Glaser Safety Slugs do exhibit a form of stopping power however. They will transfer 100% of their energy into a target provided the affected area is the torso or head. A strike to the limbs on the other hand will have virtually no effect (other than the destruction of that particular area) but the energy transferred is still limited by Newtonian Physics to what the actual energy level is, the recoil energy minus the loss due to velocity loss.
i dont believe in fancy gimmick bullets or careful shot placement for hand-guns. since i'm not an assassin, or in a movie, none of that has anything to do with how i might use my pistol in a time of need. at the range, i try to tighten groups of five or so (4 and 3 w/ the 1911) to the massive abdomen area. many times more effective lethality than any one silly magsafe round.
some simple physics is newtons third. have you fired a 12 gauge slug? something like 28grams at 1500fps? equal and opposite reactions. my shotgun is an automatic, so i'm cheating with the recoil, the target is not cheating. it faces (82lbs.*ft)/s momentum from each slug. do you mean to say that that is the same as a 1100fps 8 gram 9mm?
where momentum=m*v, you get (19.36lbs*ft)/s from the 9. no wonder my baby 9 doesn't have a stalk. no wonder some guns dont have as much stopping power as others.
Here it is in a nutshell. They like to tell you about muzzle energy right? And it is measured in foot pounds right?
Here is a chart from Shooting Times
.44 Rem. Mag.
They quote a muzzle energy of 1650 foot pounds for a 240 grain projectile at 1760 fps.
What that means is that when the bullet hits an object weighing 1650 pounds it will move that object one foot.
The defintion from the dictionary is here....
Foot-pound - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
And Newtons Third Law of Motion states,
"To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions."
What that means is if the bullet really did have 1650 foot pounds of energy the recoil would toss a 1650 pound object holding it one foot.
i dont believe in fancy gimmick bullets or careful shot placement for hand-guns. since i'm not an assassin, or in a movie, none of that has anything to do with how i might use my pistol in a time of need. at the range, i try to tighten groups of five or so (4 and 3 w/ the 1911) to the massive abdomen area. many times more effective lethality than any one silly magsafe round.
some simple physics is newtons third. have you fired a 12 gauge slug? something like 28grams at 1500fps? equal and opposite reactions. my shotgun is an automatic, so i'm cheating with the recoil, the target is not cheating. it faces (82lbs.*ft)/s momentum from each slug. do you mean to say that that is the same as a 1100fps 8 gram 9mm?
where momentum=m*v, you get (19.36lbs*ft)/s from the 9. no wonder my baby 9 doesn't have a stalk. no wonder some guns dont have as much stopping power as others.
Here it is in a nutshell. They like to tell you about muzzle energy right? And it is measured in foot pounds right?
Here is a chart from Shooting Times
.44 Rem. Mag.
They quote a muzzle energy of 1650 foot pounds for a 240 grain projectile at 1760 fps.
What that means is that when the bullet hits an object weighing 1650 pounds it will move that object one foot.
The defintion from the dictionary is here....
Foot-pound - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
And Newtons Third Law of Motion states,
"To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions."
What that means is if the bullet really did have 1650 foot pounds of energy the recoil would toss a 1650 pound object holding it one foot.
Your example fails. Here's why. What is the weight of the projectile? You cannot have an equal reaction when the object concentrating the force weighs .5 oz and the other object subjected to the force weighs 250lb. Simple physics tells you that. If this were NOT the case then when an artillery round was fired the cannon would be launched into space every time it fired.
