Faith & the death penalty

[PostmodernProph]

So you think being born again is a get out clause?

Would you rather have no forgiveness?

Would you rather have all murderers claiming to be born again?

you didn't think they got out of jail if they converted, did you?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out.

you've missed the mark completely on my comment......the death penalty is wrong because it eliminates an opportunity for them to repent......I'm not saying they are innocent and should go free if they convert.....if I recall correctly the woman I was referring to was executed.....

if not, here is one who was.....on death row 14 years......became a Christian....was the first woman executed in Texas since the 1800s......
Karla Faye Tucker:*Born again*on death row - CNN.com

can you not find it in your heart to rejoice with her?.......

TUCKER: Yes, it can. It's called the joy of the Lord. I don't -- when you have done something that I have done, like what I have done, and you have been forgiven for it, and you're loved, that has a way of so changing you. I mean, I have experienced real love. I know what real love is. I know what forgiveness is, even when I did something so horrible. I know that because God forgave me and I accepted what Jesus did on the cross. When I leave here, I am going to go be with him.

 

[Chuckt]

Some, like me, will argue, that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is murder and suicide.

Question for my brothers and sisters in Christ. Where does the Holy Spirit reside? According to Scripture, It resides inside of us. Killing the temple that houses the Holy Spirit is indeed blasphemy.

Sleep on that.

That is an interpretation. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven yet Paul murdered Christians and was forgiven according to 1 Timothy 1:13 so murder cannot be the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

The rule of my church is to say only what scripture says.

 

[DriftingSand]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

No. God erected governments and commanded leaders to put folks to death for one reason or the other. Men under God are just.

Fact: We will all die as a result of our fallen nature. Whether we die today or tomorrow is of no consequence. God knows all things and His will shall be done. He will call Whom He will call and there's nothing that mankind can do to change it.

As a society we owe it to ourselves, friends, family, and neighbors to develop and uphold a just and civil society. If a man finds it acceptable to take the life of another human being then he forfeits his privilege of living and should be put to death for the benefit of a law-abiding and civil society.

 

[DriftingSand]

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out.

you've missed the mark completely on my comment......the death penalty is wrong because it eliminates an opportunity for them to repent......I'm not saying they are innocent and should go free if they convert.....if I recall correctly the woman I was referring to was executed.....

if not, here is one who was.....on death row 14 years......became a Christian....was the first woman executed in Texas since the 1800s......
Karla Faye Tucker:*Born again*on death row - CNN.com

can you not find it in your heart to rejoice with her?.......

TUCKER: Yes, it can. It's called the joy of the Lord. I don't -- when you have done something that I have done, like what I have done, and you have been forgiven for it, and you're loved, that has a way of so changing you. I mean, I have experienced real love. I know what real love is. I know what forgiveness is, even when I did something so horrible. I know that because God forgave me and I accepted what Jesus did on the cross. When I leave here, I am going to go be with him.

If I catch a man raping a female family member I SHALL put him to death and he shall NOT have the opportunity to repent. He should have considered repentance prior to committing violent acts. If he's caught by law enforcement then he'll have many years to repent during the long and drawn out appeal process.

God created hell for all those individuals throughout the ages who chose to follow Satan and reject God.

 

[DriftingSand]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

God is not the only judge in that He is a God of order and has appointed rulers, judges, those who hold office in the lands. So there are judges in the land which do their duty and judge matters every single day. The problem is that not all judges are righteous judges. Many are crooked and for a bribe will look the other way or favor the wicked because they themselves are wicked. They weigh with false scales and God will judge them one day for it.

With that said, Murder requires the death penalty because it is the shedding of innocent blood and defiles the land. The judgment to cleanse the land of such defilement is the death penalty. This is God's Word. On the matter of a murderer who is on death row and becomes a born again Christian. They are forgiven their sins but still the consequences of that sin remain - that debt is due and the price of murdering an innocent person is death according to the Word of God.

Again, if we consider the shedding of blood - even done legally - in America - of 50 million babies - the land is defiled because there has of yet been no judgment. So when God's judgment falls you shall see that God does indeed take the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. The death penalty for the taking of an innocent life is a righteous judgment. It should stand.

Good post and Amen!

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

UllysesS.Archer:

I know what the Bible says. I know it in context. I know that is God's decision. The problem is do I want to go to heaven if an animal like that is walking the streets there?

I don't know, do you? Are you saying you don't trust God's judgement or handling of the matter?

As for me, if there actually is a God and an Afterlife, I don't care who is there because I'll be so thrilled that there is something beyond this life that I won't have time for trying to judge others. If they're there, they're there. I'll trust God to do the right thing.

 

[Chuckt]

UllysesS.Archer:

I know what the Bible says. I know it in context. I know that is God's decision. The problem is do I want to go to heaven if an animal like that is walking the streets there?

I don't know, do you? Are you saying you don't trust God's judgement or handling of the matter?

As for me, if there actually is a God and an Afterlife, I don't care who is there because I'll be so thrilled that there is something beyond this life that I won't have time for trying to judge others. If they're there, they're there. I'll trust God to do the right thing.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Noomi]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

I would say so.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

UllysesS.Archer:

I know what the Bible says. I know it in context. I know that is God's decision. The problem is do I want to go to heaven if an animal like that is walking the streets there?

I don't know, do you? Are you saying you don't trust God's judgement or handling of the matter?

As for me, if there actually is a God and an Afterlife, I don't care who is there because I'll be so thrilled that there is something beyond this life that I won't have time for trying to judge others. If they're there, they're there. I'll trust God to do the right thing.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So they are beyond redemption? Isn't that God's call? I certainly think so. I sure don't think it's my call. Or yours, for that matter.

 

[PratchettFan]

I don't recall the Bible saying that only God can judge, Maybe you could point out what verse you are basing your question on so I can understand it.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;


James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Those do not mean what you think they mean.

I think they mean what they say. What do you think they mean?

 

[PratchettFan]

I don't recall the Bible saying that only God can judge, Maybe you could point out what verse you are basing your question on so I can understand it.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;


James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Would you like me to help you with the verses?

You think Jesus requires your assistance as an interpreter?

 

[Chuckt]

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;


James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Would you like me to help you with the verses?

You think Jesus requires your assistance as an interpreter?

Do you see the part in red? What happens when you take the log out of your eye? You can judge. In fact, it says to take the log out. And when I take the log out, I will see clearly. Is seeing clearly a prohibition from judging? No.

Do you want to know more? And you know what? Since everyone I did evangelism to is like you, I wrote articles after articles on judgment because I had to overcome people like you.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Maybe you should look it up on the web before you judge that other people can't judge:


What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?

The Cult of "Do not Judge"

Judge Not?

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/does-the-bible-tell-christians-to-judge-not/


Maybe you ought to look it up before you tell others what it means.

 

[PratchettFan]

Would you like me to help you with the verses?

You think Jesus requires your assistance as an interpreter?

Do you see the part in red? What happens when you take the log out of your eye? You can judge. In fact, it says to take the log out. And when I take the log out, I will see clearly. Is seeing clearly a prohibition from judging? No.

Do you want to know more? And you know what? Since everyone I did evangelism to is like you, I wrote articles after articles on judgment because I had to overcome people like you.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Maybe you should look it up on the web before you judge that other people can't judge:


What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?

The Cult of "Do not Judge"

Judge Not?

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/does-the-bible-tell-christians-to-judge-not/


Maybe you ought to look it up before you tell others what it means.

Let me rephrase my post then. Jesus does not require you as an interpreter.

Those verses say what they say. You can interpret them so they will mean what you want them to mean, but they will continue to say what they say. How you reconcile that is your issue.

 

[PratchettFan]

Would you like me to help you with the verses?

You think Jesus requires your assistance as an interpreter?

Do you see the part in red? What happens when you take the log out of your eye? You can judge. In fact, it says to take the log out. And when I take the log out, I will see clearly. Is seeing clearly a prohibition from judging? No.

Do you want to know more? And you know what? Since everyone I did evangelism to is like you, I wrote articles after articles on judgment because I had to overcome people like you.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Maybe you should look it up on the web before you judge that other people can't judge:


What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?

The Cult of "Do not Judge"

Judge Not?

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/does-the-bible-tell-christians-to-judge-not/


Maybe you ought to look it up before you tell others what it means.

BTW. I never told anyone what those verses meant. All I did was post them without a single comment. So your issue isn't with me, it's with the author.

 

[Chuckt]

You think Jesus requires your assistance as an interpreter?

Do you see the part in red? What happens when you take the log out of your eye? You can judge. In fact, it says to take the log out. And when I take the log out, I will see clearly. Is seeing clearly a prohibition from judging? No.

Do you want to know more? And you know what? Since everyone I did evangelism to is like you, I wrote articles after articles on judgment because I had to overcome people like you.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Maybe you should look it up on the web before you judge that other people can't judge:


What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?

The Cult of "Do not Judge"

Judge Not?

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/does-the-bible-tell-christians-to-judge-not/


Maybe you ought to look it up before you tell others what it means.

Let me rephrase my post then. Jesus does not require you as an interpreter.

Those verses say what they say. You can interpret them so they will mean what you want them to mean, but they will continue to say what they say. How you reconcile that is your issue.

If the verses lost their meaning because anyone can make them say what someone wants them to say then you lost any authority you might have to tell anyone anything because you don't understand context.

What is a disciple? A disciple today is someone who follows Jesus and Jesus told us to go into the world and teach others and make disciples so you aren't a Christian but you've been discipled in what the verse means because God gave me the authority to speak about Him and you have no authority from God because you aren't His.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I know what the Bible says. I know it in context. I know that is God's decision. The problem is do I want to go to heaven if an animal like that is walking the streets there?

Dude, you have a problem.....there's bound to be at least one.....are you really prepared to chuck away eternity for that attitude?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't recall the Bible saying that only God can judge, Maybe you could point out what verse you are basing your question on so I can understand it.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;


James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Those do not mean what you think they mean.

in this context he may be right.....a Christian may have his opinions on matters here on earth.....but in terms of eternal judgment we don't get a vote.....

 

[PratchettFan]

Do you see the part in red? What happens when you take the log out of your eye? You can judge. In fact, it says to take the log out. And when I take the log out, I will see clearly. Is seeing clearly a prohibition from judging? No.

Do you want to know more? And you know what? Since everyone I did evangelism to is like you, I wrote articles after articles on judgment because I had to overcome people like you.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Isaiah 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


Maybe you should look it up on the web before you judge that other people can't judge:


What does the Bible mean that we are not to judge others?

The Cult of "Do not Judge"

Judge Not?

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/does-the-bible-tell-christians-to-judge-not/


Maybe you ought to look it up before you tell others what it means.

Let me rephrase my post then. Jesus does not require you as an interpreter.

Those verses say what they say. You can interpret them so they will mean what you want them to mean, but they will continue to say what they say. How you reconcile that is your issue.

If the verses lost their meaning because anyone can make them say what someone wants them to say then you lost any authority you might have to tell anyone anything because you don't understand context.

What is a disciple? A disciple today is someone who follows Jesus and Jesus told us to go into the world and teach others and make disciples so you aren't a Christian but you've been discipled in what the verse means because God gave me the authority to speak about Him and you have no authority from God because you aren't His.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

No. They say what they say. I have applied no interpretation or meaning to them at all. You are arguing with the verses, not me. Sorry if they aren't convenient.

 

[Chuckt]

Let me rephrase my post then. Jesus does not require you as an interpreter.

Those verses say what they say. You can interpret them so they will mean what you want them to mean, but they will continue to say what they say. How you reconcile that is your issue.

If the verses lost their meaning because anyone can make them say what someone wants them to say then you lost any authority you might have to tell anyone anything because you don't understand context.

What is a disciple? A disciple today is someone who follows Jesus and Jesus told us to go into the world and teach others and make disciples so you aren't a Christian but you've been discipled in what the verse means because God gave me the authority to speak about Him and you have no authority from God because you aren't His.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

No. They say what they say. I have applied no interpretation or meaning to them at all. You are arguing with the verses, not me. Sorry if they aren't convenient.

You don't have the truth. You don't understand context and should be ashamed for being wrong. God is behind me and so is the church.