Faith & the death penalty

[TheOldSchool]

Would you rather have all murderers claiming to be born again?

Does that mean no one is ever sorry and you want to punish them all?

Not at all but saying the death penalty is wrong because somebody CLAIMS to be born again shouldn't be a get out of jail free card! I bet 99% of incarcerated people are sorry!

And Jesus taught that they may never ever be forgiven

 

[Chuckt]

Would you rather have all murderers claiming to be born again?

Does that mean no one is ever sorry and you want to punish them all?

Not at all but saying the death penalty is wrong because somebody CLAIMS to be born again shouldn't be a get out of jail free card! I bet 99% of incarcerated people are sorry after the fact!

That is a blanket statement and people have different reasons for their crimes.
Some people do have a conscience and it hurts after they do something wrong which is why some people turn themselves in.

 

[hotpotato]

Does that mean no one is ever sorry and you want to punish them all?

Not at all but saying the death penalty is wrong because somebody CLAIMS to be born again shouldn't be a get out of jail free card! I bet 99% of incarcerated people are sorry after the fact!

That is a blanket statement and people have different reasons for their crimes.

So categorically thinking the death penalty is wrong is not taking into account all those reasons?

 

[Chuckt]

Not at all but saying the death penalty is wrong because somebody CLAIMS to be born again shouldn't be a get out of jail free card! I bet 99% of incarcerated people are sorry after the fact!

That is a blanket statement and people have different reasons for their crimes.

So categorically thinking the death penalty is wrong is not taking into account all those reasons?

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

 

[hotpotato]

That is a blanket statement and people have different reasons for their crimes.

So categorically thinking the death penalty is wrong is not taking into account all those reasons?

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

 

[Chuckt]

So categorically thinking the death penalty is wrong is not taking into account all those reasons?

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

The value shouldn't be made on presumption.
The value should be made on whether the person has changed which sometimes is impossible to prove.

 

[Chuckt]

So categorically thinking the death penalty is wrong is not taking into account all those reasons?

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

Indiscriminately? Does that mean murder wasn't a choice?

 

[hotpotato]

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

The value shouldn't be made on presumption.
The value should be made on whether the person has changed which sometimes is impossible to prove.

Fair enough, so if you presume somebody is pretending to be repentant you would rather the absent landlord in the heavens deals with it at a later date?

 

[hotpotato]

If a seven year old shoots his father in the back of the head, do you give him the death penalty? Does a seven year old know right from wrong or is he acting like he is seven?

If a wife of a minister is being abused and she shoots her husband, should she get the death penalty?

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

Indiscriminately? Does that mean murder wasn't a choice?

I think you are splitting hairs here. Do your gun murderers who go through schools and mauls not kill indiscriminately?

 

[Chuckt]

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

The value shouldn't be made on presumption.
The value should be made on whether the person has changed which sometimes is impossible to prove.

Fair enough, so if you presume somebody is pretending to be repentant you would rather the absent landlord in the heavens deals with it at a later date?

He is not absent. If God was to judge the evil, He would have to be fair and judge everyone who ever made a mistake so it is good that He decides not to look or else He would have to judge.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

I'd rather God punish them for eternity than for them to have paid the crime with the death penalty and for them to be roaming around for all eternity scott free because you decided that was the only sentence.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

God is not the only judge in that He is a God of order and has appointed rulers, judges, those who hold office in the lands. So there are judges in the land which do their duty and judge matters every single day. The problem is that not all judges are righteous judges. Many are crooked and for a bribe will look the other way or favor the wicked because they themselves are wicked. They weigh with false scales and God will judge them one day for it.

With that said, Murder requires the death penalty because it is the shedding of innocent blood and defiles the land. The judgment to cleanse the land of such defilement is the death penalty. This is God's Word. On the matter of a murderer who is on death row and becomes a born again Christian. They are forgiven their sins but still the consequences of that sin remain - that debt is due and the price of murdering an innocent person is death according to the Word of God.

Again, if we consider the shedding of blood - even done legally - in America - of 50 million babies - the land is defiled because there has of yet been no judgment. So when God's judgment falls you shall see that God does indeed take the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. The death penalty for the taking of an innocent life is a righteous judgment. It should stand.

 

[Chuckt]

No they shouldn't. but somebody who kills indiscriminately should not be given your sympathies because they claim to have found God. Which was the point I was trying to make!

Indiscriminately? Does that mean murder wasn't a choice?

I think you are splitting hairs here. Do your gun murderers who go through schools and mauls not kill indiscriminately?

That is a different case as all of them are. There are all kinds of people in the world and they all have different temperaments.

 

[Chuckt]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

God is not the only judge in that He is a God of order and has appointed rulers, judges, those who hold office in the lands. So there are judges in the land which do their duty and judge matters every single day. The problem is that not all judges are righteous judges. Many are crooked and for a bribe will look the other way or favor the wicked because they themselves are wicked. They weigh with false scales and God will judge them one day for it.

With that said, Murder requires the death penalty because it is the shedding of innocent blood and defiles the land. The judgment to cleanse the land of such defilement is the death penalty. This is God's Word. On the matter of a murderer who is on death row and becomes a born again Christian. They are forgiven their sins but still the consequences of that sin remain - that debt is due and the price of murdering an innocent person is death according to the Word of God.

Again, if we consider the shedding of blood - even done legally - in America - of 50 million babies - the land is defiled because there has of yet been no judgment. So when God's judgment falls you shall see that God does indeed take the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. The death penalty for the taking of an innocent life is a righteous judgment. It should stand.

That is old testament.

Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

The question is whether God forgives all manner of sin or not and whether it should be forgiven or whether man has a right to tell God it shouldn't be forgiven.

King James Bible
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

 

[BreezeWood]

'Born Again' Son of Sam Won't Seek Parole - 'Jesus has already set me free,' says killer David Berkowitz


(Newser) – "Son of Sam" serial killer David Berkowitz isn't going to bother to seek parole because Jesus has already set him free, he says. "Jesus Christ has already forgiven and pardoned me," Berkowitz , 58, wrote in a letter to a Fox News reporter. "He has given me a whole new life, which I do not deserve. While society will never forgive me, God has. I am already a 'free man.' I am not saying this jokingly. I really am." Berkowitz is serving six consecutive 25-year-to-life sentences for killing 6 women in a random murder spree that terrorized New York City in 1976.

While society will never forgive me, God has.


speaking of ....

not sure about Christianity ( God has ), but one should be careful in what sin they commit -

taking another persons life can not be remedied by the person who took it ... there is no possibility for atonement.

.

 

[hotpotato]

Just a question, if only God can judge, for those of faith, isn't the Death Penalty usurping God?

God is not the only judge in that He is a God of order and has appointed rulers, judges, those who hold office in the lands. So there are judges in the land which do their duty and judge matters every single day. The problem is that not all judges are righteous judges. Many are crooked and for a bribe will look the other way or favor the wicked because they themselves are wicked. They weigh with false scales and God will judge them one day for it.

With that said, Murder requires the death penalty because it is the shedding of innocent blood and defiles the land. The judgment to cleanse the land of such defilement is the death penalty. This is God's Word. On the matter of a murderer who is on death row and becomes a born again Christian. They are forgiven their sins but still the consequences of that sin remain - that debt is due and the price of murdering an innocent person is death according to the Word of God.

Again, if we consider the shedding of blood - even done legally - in America - of 50 million babies - the land is defiled because there has of yet been no judgment. So when God's judgment falls you shall see that God does indeed take the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. The death penalty for the taking of an innocent life is a righteous judgment. It should stand.

That is old testament.

Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

The question is whether God forgives all manner of sin or not and whether it should be forgiven or whether man has a right to tell God it shouldn't be forgiven.

King James Bible
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

Sums up your totally whacked religion. You don't really care what somebody has done to some poor innocent 'man or woman' as long as the perpetrator make their peace with an imaginary sky fairy!
We don't have the death penalty over here in the UK despite there being many suitable candidates. What is amazing though! Not many of these candidates find the need be born again, without the death penalty hanging over their head!

 

[Chuckt]

God is not the only judge in that He is a God of order and has appointed rulers, judges, those who hold office in the lands. So there are judges in the land which do their duty and judge matters every single day. The problem is that not all judges are righteous judges. Many are crooked and for a bribe will look the other way or favor the wicked because they themselves are wicked. They weigh with false scales and God will judge them one day for it.

With that said, Murder requires the death penalty because it is the shedding of innocent blood and defiles the land. The judgment to cleanse the land of such defilement is the death penalty. This is God's Word. On the matter of a murderer who is on death row and becomes a born again Christian. They are forgiven their sins but still the consequences of that sin remain - that debt is due and the price of murdering an innocent person is death according to the Word of God.

Again, if we consider the shedding of blood - even done legally - in America - of 50 million babies - the land is defiled because there has of yet been no judgment. So when God's judgment falls you shall see that God does indeed take the shedding of innocent blood very seriously. The death penalty for the taking of an innocent life is a righteous judgment. It should stand.

That is old testament.

Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

The question is whether God forgives all manner of sin or not and whether it should be forgiven or whether man has a right to tell God it shouldn't be forgiven.

King James Bible
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

Sums up your totally whacked religion. You don't really care what somebody has done to some poor innocent 'man or woman' as long as the perpetrator make their peace with an imaginary sky fairy!
We don't have the death penalty over here in the UK despite there being many suitable candidates. What is amazing though! Not many of these candidates find the need be born again, without the death penalty hanging over their head!

Question. If you killed someone, could you change? Don't answer tonight. Sleep on it.
Just because man doesn't have an answer doesn't mean God doesn't have the answer and it is to that end that I answer the question.
There is a higher value than right and wrong and sometimes there is redemption.

 

[hotpotato]

That is old testament.

Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

The question is whether God forgives all manner of sin or not and whether it should be forgiven or whether man has a right to tell God it shouldn't be forgiven.

King James Bible
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

Sums up your totally whacked religion. You don't really care what somebody has done to some poor innocent 'man or woman' as long as the perpetrator make their peace with an imaginary sky fairy!
We don't have the death penalty over here in the UK despite there being many suitable candidates. What is amazing though! Not many of these candidates find the need be born again, without the death penalty hanging over their head!

Question. If you killed someone, could you change? Don't answer tonight. Sleep on it.
Just because man doesn't have an answer doesn't mean God doesn't have the answer and it is to that end that I answer the question.
There is a higher value than right and wrong and sometimes there is redemption.

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out. Why not just send these killers to confession instead of prison?
Christians have more love and forgiveness for somebody who would kill their granny than somebody who doesn't share their fantasy!
You mentioned sleep, good idea - good night chuck

 

[Chuckt]

Sums up your totally whacked religion. You don't really care what somebody has done to some poor innocent 'man or woman' as long as the perpetrator make their peace with an imaginary sky fairy!
We don't have the death penalty over here in the UK despite there being many suitable candidates. What is amazing though! Not many of these candidates find the need be born again, without the death penalty hanging over their head!

Question. If you killed someone, could you change? Don't answer tonight. Sleep on it.
Just because man doesn't have an answer doesn't mean God doesn't have the answer and it is to that end that I answer the question.
There is a higher value than right and wrong and sometimes there is redemption.

Some people can change but saying the death penalty is 'wrong' because a percentage have taken the path marked redemption is a cop out. Why not just send these killers to confession instead of prison?
Christians have more love and forgiveness for somebody who would kill their granny than somebody who doesn't share their fantasy!
You mentioned sleep, good idea - good night chuck

Maybe they will take the path of redemption because they want a way out.
Maybe someone will help them. Maybe they will taste and see that the Lord is good.

My employer hired drug addicts and alcoholics. I didn't know it at the time but sometimes they are hard to get along with. I remember one of them and he did his job before he regressed and was fired. He ended up having a relative taking him in and he went back to church before he had a heart attack.

For some people, they are trapped in a way of thinking and what they need to do is get rid of their dependence on whatever caused the problem. I know it is easier said than done but I know people who have changed a little. Their dependence on the old life is a sickness and it is called sin. What they need is a doctor like Jesus.

Two out of three prisoners will re-offend. Do you throw away the one that won't because you want to be sure? Is throwing away the one who will change justice? If you want to talk about right and wrong, isn't it wrong to throw away the one that will change?

Have a good sleep.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Some, like me, will argue, that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is murder and suicide.

Question for my brothers and sisters in Christ. Where does the Holy Spirit reside? According to Scripture, It resides inside of us. Killing the temple that houses the Holy Spirit is indeed blasphemy.

Sleep on that.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I realized the death penalty was wrong when I heard of the woman who was born again after being on death row for 27 years.......

So you think being born again is a get out clause?

no.....its a get in clause.....