Face The Facts: The President Inherited a Recession

[NYcarbineer]

[
Oh good. Then this IS the Obama Recession through and through.

No, it would Obama's recovery now.

First there has to be a recovery. Tripling the deficit in a recession is not a recovery. We've had a little lift, but then all the bills P-BO has racked up will come due and we'll be taking the dive back down even deeper, soon.

Then we can call it the Bush/Obama recession for the next president, whomever it will be, to clean up in 2012.

Wait, you actually believe P-BO will GET re-elected?

Reagan and GW Bush both tripled the deficit. So now we can honestly say they never had recoveries?

Read:

The CBO reported in October 2009 reasons for the difference between the 2008 and 2009 deficits, which were approximately $460 billion and $1,410 billion, respectively. Key categories of changes included: tax receipt declines of $320 billion due to the effects of the recession and another $100 billion due to tax cuts in the stimulus bill (the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act or ARRA); $245 billion for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) and other bailout efforts; $100 billion in additional spending for ARRA; and another $185 billion due to increases in primary budget categories such as Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Defense - including the war effort in Afghanistan and Iraq. This was the highest budget deficit relative to GDP (9.9%) since 1945.[54] The national debt increased by $1.9 trillion during FY2009, versus the $1.0 trillion increase during 2008.[55]

The Obama Administration also made four significant accounting changes, to more accurately report the total spending by the Federal government. The four changes were: 1) account for the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies”) in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills; 2) assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation; 3) account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements; and 4) anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. These changes would make the debt over ten years look $2.7 trillion larger, but that debt was always there. It was just hidden.[56][57]

United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

 

[Intense]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

 

[rdean]

No, it would Obama's recovery now.

First there has to be a recovery. Tripling the deficit in a recession is not a recovery. We've had a little lift, but then all the bills P-BO has racked up will come due and we'll be taking the dive back down even deeper, soon.

Then we can call it the Bush/Obama recession for the next president, whomever it will be, to clean up in 2012.

Wait, you actually believe P-BO will GET re-elected?

Reagan and GW Bush both tripled the deficit. So now we can honestly say they never had recoveries?

Read:

The CBO reported in October 2009 reasons for the difference between the 2008 and 2009 deficits, which were approximately $460 billion and $1,410 billion, respectively. Key categories of changes included: tax receipt declines of $320 billion due to the effects of the recession and another $100 billion due to tax cuts in the stimulus bill (the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act or ARRA); $245 billion for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) and other bailout efforts; $100 billion in additional spending for ARRA; and another $185 billion due to increases in primary budget categories such as Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Defense - including the war effort in Afghanistan and Iraq. This was the highest budget deficit relative to GDP (9.9%) since 1945.[54] The national debt increased by $1.9 trillion during FY2009, versus the $1.0 trillion increase during 2008.[55]

The Obama Administration also made four significant accounting changes, to more accurately report the total spending by the Federal government. The four changes were: 1) account for the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies”) in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills; 2) assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation; 3) account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements; and 4) anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. These changes would make the debt over ten years look $2.7 trillion larger, but that debt was always there. It was just hidden.[56][57]

United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Republicans absolutely don't understand this. That or they refuse to acknowledge it. They hate truth.

But the 2.7 trillion. Is that an "old" estimate? The Bush administration pushed the idea the wars would cost less than 200 billion (if you gonna lie, lie BIG), but the last I heard, the CBOs estimate for the entire cost was 3 trillion.

Also, the Republican drug bill was pushed as a way to "save money", but it was a give a way to drug companies and an attempt to get the votes of "seniors", but final estimate was anywhere from 1.2 trillion to 5 trillion (some estimates, even much higher).

 

[rdean]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

Oh yea, sorry.

Bush gutted the military. He sent them to Iraq with old and rusty equipment and kept them there, as if they had been kidnapped, against their will, even when they were past their "separation" date.
McCain was even worse. Veterans groups gave him a rating of 20% and a grade of "D".

Instead of building up our military, Bush gave his rich friends a 2.5 trillion dollar tax cut and passed out "no bid" contracts like candy corn.

Families of Alaska?s Stryker Brigade Make Rumsfeld Squirm | Alaska Free Press

As I’m sure you have heard a thousand times over, the news of this extension devastated my husband and me to the core. His number one priority was getting ALL his men home safe and sound. With only 7 days to go, and a flight scheduled, we finally were able to breathe a guarded sigh of relief. We also had vacation plans and were looking forward to visiting some of our favorite places in Alaska before winter hit us again. Then we received the news that they, indeed, would not be coming home as planned.

 

[Intense]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

Oh yea, sorry.

Bush gutted the military. He sent them to Iraq with old and rusty equipment and kept them there, as if they had been kidnapped, against their will, even when they were past their "separation" date.
McCain was even worse. Veterans groups gave him a rating of 20% and a grade of "D".

Instead of building up our military, Bush gave his rich friends a 2.5 trillion dollar tax cut and passed out "no bid" contracts like candy corn.

Families of Alaska?s Stryker Brigade Make Rumsfeld Squirm | Alaska Free Press

As I’m sure you have heard a thousand times over, the news of this extension devastated my husband and me to the core. His number one priority was getting ALL his men home safe and sound. With only 7 days to go, and a flight scheduled, we finally were able to breathe a guarded sigh of relief. We also had vacation plans and were looking forward to visiting some of our favorite places in Alaska before winter hit us again. Then we received the news that they, indeed, would not be coming home as planned.

Just keep drinking that Kool-Aid and skipping down that yellow brick road Scare Crow!!! That promised brain awaits.

 

[NYcarbineer]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

I'm just curious. How much military would be enough for you people? Is there any level at which you people would say okay, good, we don't have to make the military any bigger, we're happy now...

...where would that be? because Republicans always run on spending more and more and more on the military, and conservatives en masse cheer them on.

How much is enough?

 

[Intense]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/117270-small-business-jobs-growth-chart.html

Yes teh CBO has said for years now that the 1993 budget reduction act was responsible for the lions share of the savings we saw in teh 90s. That bill was fought tooth and nail with the Rs and not one voted for it in the entire governmet.

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

I'm just curious. How much military would be enough for you people? Is there any level at which you people would say okay, good, we don't have to make the military any bigger, we're happy now...

...where would that be? because Republicans always run on spending more and more and more on the military, and conservatives en masse cheer them on.

How much is enough?

How much did Bush have to reinvest in the Military to prepare for Iraq???? There's maintenance, attrition, modernization. These things alway's seem to take the hit. Personally I thing the Services should have more to say about what their true needs are, and Congress responding to that, rather than shoving projects down their throat's without regard to their voice. This perspective regards both sides of the Aisle and pork spending.

That said, the Clinton cuts hurt the military making his recovery falsely look good.

 

[GHook93]

Hannity did scream to liberals that Bush inherited a recession and 9/11! LOL

Yet hacks on the right refuse to recognize Obama inherited a recession and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (or Prehaps as bad as what Reagan inherited). The mortgage meltdown was started and put into full drive by Clinton (Worse President than Bush!!!) and ignored by Bush. The mess took well over a decade to blow-up. Therefore, don't know how Republicans can honestly expect any President or New administration to turn in around in 1, 2 or even 3 years.

Heck Reagan took 4-5 years to turn around the Carter lost years!

 

[Intense]

Hannity did scream to liberals that Bush inherited a recession and 9/11! LOL

Yet hacks on the right refuse to recognize Obama inherited a recession and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (or Prehaps as bad as what Reagan inherited). The mortgage meltdown was started and put into full drive by Clinton (Worse President than Bush!!!) and ignored by Bush. The mess took well over a decade to blow-up. Therefore, don't know how Republicans can honestly expect any President or New administration to turn in around in 1, 2 or even 3 years.

Heck Reagan took 4-5 years to turn around the Carter lost years!

The same Democrats in Congress obstructed reform for 8 years under Bush paved the way for Obama's administration. We've seen enough progressive thought from both sides of the Aisle for a few life times, huh.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

You forgot the part about gutting the military.

I'm just curious. How much military would be enough for you people? Is there any level at which you people would say okay, good, we don't have to make the military any bigger, we're happy now...

...where would that be? because Republicans always run on spending more and more and more on the military, and conservatives en masse cheer them on.

How much is enough?

How much did Bush have to reinvest in the Military to prepare for Iraq???? There's maintenance, attrition, modernization. These things alway's seem to take the hit. Personally I thing the Services should have more to say about what their true needs are, and Congress responding to that, rather than shoving projects down their throat's without regard to their voice. This perspective regards both sides of the Aisle and pork spending.

That said, the Clinton cuts hurt the military making his recovery falsely look good.

I am mildly astounded that someone would, with a straight face, invoke Iraq as an argument as to why we need so much military.

btw, remember when the Cold War supposedly ended? Remember the peace dividend? Remember how Reagan massively increased defense spending with the argument that it would win the Cold War?
Was ending the Cold War really not supposed to create an opportunity for us to rollback defense spending?

Wasn't that at least in part the POINT?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hannity did scream to liberals that Bush inherited a recession and 9/11! LOL

Yet hacks on the right refuse to recognize Obama inherited a recession and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (or Prehaps as bad as what Reagan inherited). The mortgage meltdown was started and put into full drive by Clinton (Worse President than Bush!!!) and ignored by Bush. The mess took well over a decade to blow-up. Therefore, don't know how Republicans can honestly expect any President or New administration to turn in around in 1, 2 or even 3 years.

Heck Reagan took 4-5 years to turn around the Carter lost years!

Few people seem to know it and fewer still on the right want to know it, but Ronald Reagan actually inherited a growing economy in January of 1981. The recession began in July of 1981.

 

[hortysir]

I don't deny that the economy was going downhill when Obama entered office.

Understatement

Definition:

A figure of speech in which a writer or speaker deliberately makes a situation seem less important or serious than it is. Contrast with hyperbole. See also: litotes.

Examples and Observations:

* "It's just a flesh wound."
(Black Knight, after having both of his arms cut off, in Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
understatement - definition and examples of understatement

However, I don't excuse his responsibility for it now because:

1) He was a Senator when the economy downturn because. You try to pretend he is not responsible for anything he did prior to becoming President. When it's clear Congress has just as much influence, if not more, than the President does in Economic matters.

2) No matter how bad the economy was when he inherited it, he has continually followed policies that will make the problem worse rather than actually help fix it. The idea that he isnt responsible for anything because he wasnt President when we first started going down is absurd.

Finally, I just have to say, grow up. I don't care when recessions started. I dont care about playing a blame game. I simply want to actually fix the problems facing America. If Obama adopted policies that encouraged and expanded economic growth instead of stifling it, I would whole heartedly support him. But he isn't. So I have to pray that he doesnt act in a way that totally destroys us before we get a chance to fix things.

1) Obama was a US Senator for such a short time before he ran for President, I doubt the Senate staff knew who he was at the time. (see how easy it is to mimic your style?)

truth is Obama wasn't in the Senate long enough to effect much: puff pieces and his campaign ads to the contrary.

2) The economy was so bad we were looking a taking it off of life support. Not many rational people suggest how he could have done differently than he did. After the fact, sure -- at the time? A few banks and financial orgs went under and there was panic. Your criticism is unfair and absent the context of the time.

Finally, the truth -- you 'don't care' you just hate Obama.

thank you


dD

And prior to that he was a member of the Illinois state legislature.
Take a gander at Illinois' ranking, debt-wise, while he was instrumental in their budget.
Year after year of red ink.

Unlike the star-struck sheeple, I actually looked at his entire record before I voted. And that's exactly why I didn't vote for him

 

[Intense]

I'm just curious. How much military would be enough for you people? Is there any level at which you people would say okay, good, we don't have to make the military any bigger, we're happy now...

...where would that be? because Republicans always run on spending more and more and more on the military, and conservatives en masse cheer them on.

How much is enough?

How much did Bush have to reinvest in the Military to prepare for Iraq???? There's maintenance, attrition, modernization. These things alway's seem to take the hit. Personally I thing the Services should have more to say about what their true needs are, and Congress responding to that, rather than shoving projects down their throat's without regard to their voice. This perspective regards both sides of the Aisle and pork spending.

That said, the Clinton cuts hurt the military making his recovery falsely look good.

I am mildly astounded that someone would, with a straight face, invoke Iraq as an argument as to why we need so much military.

btw, remember when the Cold War supposedly ended? Remember the peace dividend? Remember how Reagan massively increased defense spending with the argument that it would win the Cold War?
Was ending the Cold War really not supposed to create an opportunity for us to rollback defense spending?

Wasn't that at least in part the POINT?

First you misinterpret Iraq spending with repairing mismanagement. Again upkeep, maintenance, repair, and attrition.

Second, my point was to listen to the military more about what their true needs are, Congressmen are not the experts, nor are they good listeners. A prepared military is good at a lot of things, that includes disaster response.

Third, let's distinguish between large stock piles and modernization, we are only effective against current threat, by being current in technology.

Rollbacks on spending??? Is that with eye's open or eye's shut??? Be specific.

 

[Intense]

I don't deny that the economy was going downhill when Obama entered office.

Understatement

However, I don't excuse his responsibility for it now because:

1) He was a Senator when the economy downturn because. You try to pretend he is not responsible for anything he did prior to becoming President. When it's clear Congress has just as much influence, if not more, than the President does in Economic matters.

2) No matter how bad the economy was when he inherited it, he has continually followed policies that will make the problem worse rather than actually help fix it. The idea that he isnt responsible for anything because he wasnt President when we first started going down is absurd.

Finally, I just have to say, grow up. I don't care when recessions started. I dont care about playing a blame game. I simply want to actually fix the problems facing America. If Obama adopted policies that encouraged and expanded economic growth instead of stifling it, I would whole heartedly support him. But he isn't. So I have to pray that he doesnt act in a way that totally destroys us before we get a chance to fix things.

1) Obama was a US Senator for such a short time before he ran for President, I doubt the Senate staff knew who he was at the time. (see how easy it is to mimic your style?)

truth is Obama wasn't in the Senate long enough to effect much: puff pieces and his campaign ads to the contrary.

2) The economy was so bad we were looking a taking it off of life support. Not many rational people suggest how he could have done differently than he did. After the fact, sure -- at the time? A few banks and financial orgs went under and there was panic. Your criticism is unfair and absent the context of the time.

Finally, the truth -- you 'don't care' you just hate Obama.

thank you


dD

And prior to that he was a member of the Illinois state legislature.
Take a gander at Illinois' ranking, debt-wise, while he was instrumental in their budget.
Year after year of red ink.

Unlike the star-struck sheeple, I actually looked at his entire record before I voted. And that's exactly why I didn't vote for him

The only question I have for Obama right now is how much did his senate seat cost him when he was up at bat?

 

[The T]

Understatement



1) Obama was a US Senator for such a short time before he ran for President, I doubt the Senate staff knew who he was at the time. (see how easy it is to mimic your style?)

truth is Obama wasn't in the Senate long enough to effect much: puff pieces and his campaign ads to the contrary.

2) The economy was so bad we were looking a taking it off of life support. Not many rational people suggest how he could have done differently than he did. After the fact, sure -- at the time? A few banks and financial orgs went under and there was panic. Your criticism is unfair and absent the context of the time.

Finally, the truth -- you 'don't care' you just hate Obama.

thank you


dD

And prior to that he was a member of the Illinois state legislature.
Take a gander at Illinois' ranking, debt-wise, while he was instrumental in their budget.
Year after year of red ink.

Unlike the star-struck sheeple, I actually looked at his entire record before I voted. And that's exactly why I didn't vote for him

The only question I have for Obama right now is how much did his senate seat cost him when he was up at bat?

And to further that? What price did he sell this nation's Soul for when he made several appearences on the Hill to get his pet legislation passed under the name 'Healthcare'?

Not Business as usual in the District Of Criminals Mr. President?

 

[hortysir]

The only question I have for Obama right now is how much did his senate seat cost him when he was up at bat?

I remember when Slick Willie introduced him at the DNC.
Coincidence that Hillary ran against him?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What I love best about these threads about economics....

1. Each side blames the other - when, in fact, both sides are equally responsible.

2. Most of you don't know as much about economics as you think you do.

Thanks for the laughs. And, if our politicians could read this shit, they'd be laughing too - at all of you. Cuz while you're busy whining about 'Obama' and 'Bush'.... they (both sides) are robbing you blind.

You're an idiot... And by that I mean that you exhibit the congitive acuity common to a young child.

Now allow me to demonstrate.

You've made the idiotic assertion that 'both sides' are equally responsible... This statement is beyond false, it is ludicrous... utterly baseless, thoroughly void of any factual basis.

Site one Conservative Economic Principle which can even POTENTIALLY bring about economic calamity...

Site one Conservative Economic Policy which you can correlate to economic calamity...

When you fail to sustain your position; which FTR is a 100% certainty, you will be conceding to ME, that you are IN FACT: AN IDIOT.

Now I will be notifying you of this challenge... ignoring that notice, thus the challenge will be a default concession.

 

[Big Fitz]

1) account for the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies&#8221 in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills;

Oh good. Now we have itemized how much we were spending anyway. How does this change the fact we are overspending and INCREASING the amount of spending. what're we paying for Obamacare with? Fairy Sprinkles? We sure as fuck don't have the money for the war in the mid east, we sure as shit don't have it for P-BO death panels.

2) assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation;

Bullshit till it's signed into law. And with Bawny Fwank sqweaming about inqueasing fundth to the federew gubmint and the rest of the leftist kleptocracy in congress are removed, die off or suffer some sort of stroke and vote it to P-BO's office, and he signs off on it... it ain't true.

I don't see that happening any time soon. If they can get away with increasing the people getting slapped with this theft, they would.

3) account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements;

And yet Medicare denies payments and treatments at almost double the rate of private insurance, and pays out only around 33% of the actual bill. Yeah. Doing good there.

4) anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. These changes would make the debt over ten years look $2.7 trillion larger, but that debt was always there. It was just hidden.

This is incredibly assumptive with no proof. I call it cooking the books to justify gubmint waste to come.

But, that's okay. It's W's fault, in in many ways, yes it was. He did prevent the Clinton depression by cutting taxes, but did the exact opposite thanks to a very foolish Fed director AND stupidly out of control spending congress in 2005-8. Nevermind the fact that all the programs have faulty double counted budgets and that the numbers don't jive and are mostly unknown because the legislation still ISN'T FINISHED YET!!!

So, yes, you can call this the W recession, because when that next dip hits in the next 12-14 months it's going to be a screaming drop down to where the great depression will look like the roaring 20's. Complete with drug gangs and blood in the street. Good job! fucking stellar accounting.

Welcome to the United States of Weimar.

 

[The T]

The only question I have for Obama right now is how much did his senate seat cost him when he was up at bat?

I remember when Slick Willie introduced him at the DNC.
Coincidence that Hillary ran against him?

And cushy post as Secratary Of State? Cronyism? -NAH...