Even I'm surprised. Household debt hits 16 trillion

[georgephillip]

Total bullshit. People owe money to credit card companies, student loans and banks not rich individuals.

And the richest ten percent own most of the stock in those credit card companies and banks.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

"The lending from rich to poor can be indirect.

"For example, let’s say a rich person buys shares issued by a company.

"The company stashes the proceeds in a bank.

"The bank in turn makes a loan to a non-rich person to buy a car or a house.

"The borrowers have a higher propensity to spend than the lenders, but they have less money to spend because part of their income goes to debt service."

 

[expat_panama]

oh----so what is the issue----the way it is presented seems
to me------lots of poor single moms with thousands in
credit card debt an no place to live

That's exactly the false impression that the screwy CNN article is trying to get across.

CNN sells their product to the doom'n'gloom crowd and what they find that sells are lies about American poverty. Most poor single moms don't have thousands in credit card debt. Sure there are some, and there are also lots MORE single moms who DO NOT have thousands in credit card debt --from here:

The typical “poor” American lives in an air-conditioned house or apartment and has cable TV, a car, multiple color TVs, a DVD player, and a VCR among other conveniences. While some of the poor face significant material hardship, formulating a sound, long-term anti-poverty policy that addresses the causes as well as the symptoms of poverty will require honest and accurate information. Exaggerating the extent and severity of hardships will not benefit society, the taxpayers, or the poor.
Key Takeaways

Poor Americans have more living space in their homes than the average non-poor Swede, Frenchman, or German.

Some 96 percent of poor parents report their children were never hungry at any time in the prior year.

Sound anti-poverty policy must be based on accurate information and address the causes of poverty, not merely the symptoms.

It's true that most of the debt is owed to the richest 10% of the population. Please be aware that most of this debt is owed BY the richest 10% also.

 

[gipper]

Total bullshit. People owe money to credit card companies, student loans and banks not rich individuals.

Who do you think owns those banks and credit card companies? Poor people?

 

[georgephillip]

the capitalist system of economy KILLS people?

Did you miss WWI and WWII?

 

[gipper]

the capitalist system of economy KILLS people?

Really? How could you ask such an uninformed question? Haven’t you heard every war is a banker’s war?

 

[irosie91]

Did you miss WWI and WWII?

world war I and II were created by the economic system --
"capitalism"?

 

[irosie91]

Really? How could you ask such an uninformed question? Haven’t you heard every war is a banker’s war?

I heard lots of jingles----Jack be nimble, Jack be quick,
Jack jump over the candlestick

 

[Woodznutz]

What are the three biggest differences between them?

One difference is that unindebted money doesn't add to the federal debt.

 

[Blues Man]

Capitalism has been in existence for about 500 years with domination and exploitation being two of its signature qualities.

It has found ways to profit from war, famine, genocide and chattel slavery over that time, and it continues to prosper from the killing, maiming, and displacing of millions of innocent human beings today.
Towards workplace democracy

It rules its workplaces like a dictatorship which means any society committed to democratic state will eventually be presented with a ballot "choice" between candidates preselected by the richest one percent of its citizens.

There are better alternatives:

Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia

"Libertarian socialists seek to replace unjustified authority with direct democracy, voluntary federation and popular autonomy in all aspects of life,[80] including physical communities and economic enterprises.

"With the advent of the Industrial Revolution, thinkers such as Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Karl Marx elaborated the comparison between wage labor and slavery in the context of a critique of societal property not intended for active personal use.[81][82]

"Luddites emphasized the dehumanization brought about by machines while later Emma Goldman famously denounced wage slavery by saying: 'The only difference is that you are hired slaves instead of block slaves'"

Libertarianism will not work

Open borders, no regulatory agencies, etc. Pure democracy is not desirable because the majority can trample the rights of the minority.

This is the real world and libertarianism while it may have some good points is still naïve idealism

 

[Blues Man]

Yeah any criticism of capitalism is met with labeling one a murderous commie. How sad and dumb. The capitalists have many well trained monkeys.

What does paying too much for college have to do with communism?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And the richest ten percent own most of the stock in those credit card companies and banks.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

"The lending from rich to poor can be indirect.

"For example, let’s say a rich person buys shares issued by a company.

"The company stashes the proceeds in a bank.

"The bank in turn makes a loan to a non-rich person to buy a car or a house.

"The borrowers have a higher propensity to spend than the lenders, but they have less money to spend because part of their income goes to debt service."

And the richest ten percent own most of the stock in those credit card companies and banks.

You should have bought some.

The borrowers have a higher propensity to spend than the lenders,

Adjust your propensity.

but they have less money to spend because part of their income goes to debt service.

I have more money to spend because some of my income comes from interest and dividends.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One difference is that unindebted money doesn't add to the federal debt.

What is "unindebted money"?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

What is "unindebted money"?

My guess would be the part of the Govt spending that is actually covered by revenue collected.

 

[Woodznutz]

What is "unindebted money"?

Money that doesn't have to paid back, such as a grant or gift. I recently 'gifted' my daughter money to pay her rent. If she had the means I would have made it a loan and insisted on being repaid. The government could do the same by simply printing money and paying cash for some projects. This puts equity into the economy instead of debt. Inflation can be addressed through budget process.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Money that doesn't have to paid back, such as a grant or gift. I recently 'gifted' my daughter money to pay her rent. If she had the means I would have made it a loan and insisted on being repaid. The government could do the same by simply printing money and paying cash for some projects. This puts equity into the economy instead of debt. Inflation can be addressed through budget process.

The government could do the same by simply printing money and paying cash for some projects.

There is a limited amount of money the government can print and spend until Bidenflation.

This puts equity into the economy instead of debt.

Printing money creates equity? What's your definition of equity?

Inflation can be addressed through budget process.

How?

 

[Woodznutz]

The government could do the same by simply printing money and paying cash for some projects.

There is a limited amount of money the government can print and spend until Bidenflation.

This puts equity into the economy instead of debt.

Printing money creates equity? What's your definition of equity?

Inflation can be addressed through budget process.

How?

 

[georgephillip]

what is issue with regard to the figures on 'HOUSEHOLD
DEBT' ?

Households, unlike the Federal Reserve, posses no printing presses; therefore, the indebtedness of the population means there is little discretionary income with which to drive the economy. FINANCE capitalism ensures a high cost of living and doing business with a trickle-up effect for wealth and income.

Removing The Debt Barrier To Economic Growth | Michael Hudson

"We propose to deal with the debt crisis by forgiving debts as was done in ancient times.

"Our basic premise is that debts that cannot be paid won’t be.

"Widespread foreclosures and evictions would further worsen the distribution of income and wealth and further constrain the ability of the economy to grow.

"Writing debt down to levels that can be serviced would clear the decks tor a real recovery.

"Income that would be siphoned off in debt service would instead be available to purchase new goods and services."

 

[georgephillip]

world war I and II were created by the economic system --
"capitalism"?

Yes.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/imperialism.pdf (P. 8)

"It is precisely the parasitism and decay of capitalism, characteristic of its highest historical stage of development, i.e., imperialism.

"As this pamphlet shows, capitalism has now singled out a handful (less than one-tenth of the inhabitants of the globe; less than one-fifth at a most 'generous' and liberal calculation) of exceptionally rich and powerful states which plunder the whole world simply by 'clipping coupons'.

"Capital exports yield an income of eight to ten thousand million francs per annum, at pre-war prices and according to pre-war bourgeois statistics.

"Now, of course, they yield much more."

 

[irosie91]

Yes.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/imperialism.pdf (P. 8)

"It is precisely the parasitism and decay of capitalism, characteristic of its highest historical stage of development, i.e., imperialism.

"As this pamphlet shows, capitalism has now singled out a handful (less than one-tenth of the inhabitants of the globe; less than one-fifth at a most 'generous' and liberal calculation) of exceptionally rich and powerful states which plunder the whole world simply by 'clipping coupons'.

"Capital exports yield an income of eight to ten thousand million francs per annum, at pre-war prices and according to pre-war bourgeois statistics.

"Now, of course, they yield much more."

right----capitalism did it----buying and selling---that strange activity that is a mere 500 years old and before
that ----ECONOMIC NIRVANA and WORLD PEACE

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Households, unlike the Federal Reserve, posses no printing presses; therefore, the indebtedness of the population means there is little discretionary income with which to drive the economy. FINANCE capitalism ensures a high cost of living and doing business with a trickle-up effect for wealth and income.

Removing The Debt Barrier To Economic Growth | Michael Hudson

"We propose to deal with the debt crisis by forgiving debts as was done in ancient times.

"Our basic premise is that debts that cannot be paid won’t be.

"Widespread foreclosures and evictions would further worsen the distribution of income and wealth and further constrain the ability of the economy to grow.

"Writing debt down to levels that can be serviced would clear the decks tor a real recovery.

"Income that would be siphoned off in debt service would instead be available to purchase new goods and services."

"We propose to deal with the debt crisis by forgiving debts as was done in ancient times.

You first, Michael.