An intersting conversation to save Social Security via direct payment to those 63 years of age and older.

[Darkwind]

How about giving US back all the $$$ they took during our working years? With compounded interest?

Explain.

 

[Leo123]

Explain.

What would you like explained? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And just who are we going to borrow 17 trillion dollars from, because we are broke.

 

[Darkwind]

What would you like explained? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Let's try this.

What money specifically, did they take from you that they were not going to give back through the program?

Do you believe that you will live long enough to get paid back 1, every dime you put in, or 2, 5 million dollars?

 

[Darkwind]

And just who are we going to borrow 17 trillion dollars from, because we are broke.

Yes, we are with a debt that is going to cost us well into the next century.

So, what policies, programs, and changes to government can we affect in order to bring that debt down faster?

In the OP I posted, the savings were projected to be:

Long-Term Financial Analysis​

Payback Period: The upfront cost would be recovered through annual savings in approximately 12.6 years. After this break-even point, the system would generate massive annual surpluses.

75-Year Outlook: The $1.41 trillion in annual savings would completely eliminate Social Security's projected 75-year deficit of $25.1 trillion in just 17.8 years—far faster than the 75-year projection window.crr.bc+1

Buffer Creation: Rather than facing insolvency in 2033, the trust fund would grow by approximately $1.35 trillion annually after accounting for the eliminated deficit, creating an unprecedented cushion for the program

 

[Leo123]

Let's try this.

What money specifically, did they take from you that they were not going to give back through the program?

Do you believe that you will live long enough to get paid back 1, every dime you put in, or 2, 5 million dollars?

I'd gladly take a lump sum right now instead of receiving the paltry SS stipend. SS already knows my lifetime earnings but I only get crumbs.

 

[Darkwind]

I'd gladly take a lump sum right now instead of receiving the paltry SS stipend. SS already knows my lifetime earnings but I only get crumbs.

Which was one of the goals of this thread. To have discussions using real numbers, and trying to bring in a dispassionate approach to the problem.

We could save the entire program in just 18 year with some kind of program like the one I have been outlining.

I'm not say we should go this exact route, but it does open up a conversation about the subject.

BTW, I too would gladly take the one-time payment. As FyreFox said, if you don't spend it all, it then gets passed down.

 

[Leo123]

Which was one of the goals of this thread. To have discussions using real numbers, and trying to bring in a dispassionate approach to the problem.

We could save the entire program in just 18 year with some kind of program like the one I have been outlining.

I'm not say we should go this exact route, but it does open up a conversation about the subject.

BTW, I too would gladly take the one-time payment. As FyreFox said, if you don't spend it all, it then gets passed down.

How about giving free health care, and paid off mortgages to all now on fixed SS income?

 

[Darkwind]

How about giving free health care, and paid off mortgages to all now on fixed SS income?

You have 5 million dollars. I think you'll be able to afford your healthcare.

 

[citygator]

What is interesting about what amounts to ending Social Security altogether and converting it into a short-term wealth-transfer program to today’s seniors, leaving future retirees without a defined benefit system. It’s not a reform its a joke.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, before I put you on My ignore list for the absolute idiot you are, exactly which link(s) in the above conversation are wrong?

I'd like to ask you what you think about the concept without the numbers, as a way to work toward some solution, but I won't see your answer.

You're a ******* tool, and as such, you're going to the recycled tool bin.

Goodbye.

You can't answer where the nearly $18 trillion initial outlay is coming from? Don't you think that is a good start?

 

[beagle9]

I think a lot of people would. I know I would.

But the exercise is related to making Social Security solvent before 2038 when it goes broke.

It is interesting that before that moment, the program could be amassing 1.5 trillion dollars a year.

Provided the numbers add up...

The initial conversation is going to be rife with some errors, but then, if we MUST have fully fleshed out ideas, why bother with discussions at all?

That last one was directed at Tory

The rhetoric about Social security going broke is pure fiction, and this is because if the program is managed correctly, then it will be solvent regardless of the time continuum that it rides on in that continuum. Otherwise stop stealing from the dam program.

Just like me - If I'm paying $50.00 dollar's a week into the program, then my company has to match that amount when paying in also. That's $100.00 dollar's per week on just me alone. There are millions working and paying into Social Security.

I know let's just add hundreds of thousands of illegals to the system, and given them visa cards with $800.00 dollars on them, and give them apps on their free cell phones, and give them free Healthcare with no telling what else.

I know, let's give snap benefits to millions of people whether they qualify for them or even if they are abusing that program to the tune of millions of non qualifying dependents on it as well.

And when it comes to the American citizen that worked 40+year's, then let's tell them that their retirement is busted, and put all kinds of penalties and disincentives in hopes that they die before ever using any of it, and make sure that the penalties for using it will force them to die in poverty.

This country has some seriously evil and corrupt government official's that are managing the countries affairs in a very anti-American way.

MAGA ? Ok we shall see.

 

[Darkwind]

The rhetoric about Social security going broke is pure fiction, and this is because if the program is managed correctly, then it will be solvent regardless of the time continuum that it rides on in that continuum. Otherwise stop stealing from the dam program.

Just like me - If I'm paying $50.00 dollar's a week into the program, then my company has to match that amount when paying in also. That's $100.00 dollar's per week on just me alone. There are millions working and paying into Social Security.

I know let's just add hundreds of thousands of illegals to the system, and given them visa cards with $800.00 dollars on them, and give them apps on their free cell phones, and give them free Healthcare with no telling what else.

I know, let's give snap benefits to millions of people whether they qualify for them or even if they are abusing that program to the tune of millions of non qualifying dependents on it as well.

And when it comes to the American citizen that worked 40+year's, then let's tell them that their retirement is busted, and put all kinds of penalties and disincentives in hopes that they die before ever using any of it, and make sure that the penalties for using it will force them to die in poverty.

This country has some seriously evil and corrupt government official's that are managing the countries affairs in a very anti-American way.

MAGA ? Ok we shall see.

You're preaching to the choir.

 

[leftwinger]

My God, do you and your sources suck at math! No number sense! The upfront cost is how many times the annual federal budget? The rest is simple window dressing and rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I stopped reading after the intial cost.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly seeing this number.

Total upfront cost: $17.82 trillion

****I quit reading there^^^^^^

 

[leftwinger]

Even high earners barely put in $500K total with employer match.
Few do that as early career is often tech level in an ENG field.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Say I'm retiring next year @65.

Monthly SS Retirement = $3100
Annual SS Retirement = $37,200
Expected Death Actuary Age = 78
Lifetime SS Retirement Benefits: $3100 per month * 12 Months * 13 years = $483,600 (After COLA's call it $500,000).

The alternative proposal

Monthly SS Retirement = $0
Substitute one time payment of $5,000,000
Marginal Income taxes are $1,844,393
After Tax Income then equal $3,155,607
At a 5% Real Rate of Return (after applicable fees) = $157,780.35
Over 13 years live expectancy that would be in additioanl income = $2,051,144.55

Observations:

#1 Anyone not taking that deal should have their head examined as it's a great deal on an individual basis.

#2 For the taxpayers, not so great a deal because instead of paying out $500,000 over 13 years, that cost, a signiifcant upgrade to benefits overall is uploaded and upgraded at the front end to a one time cash payment of $5,000,000.

#3 If after taxes, the individual invested the remaining $3.1 Million, they could increase their annual income (based on SS Retirement) from $37K to approximately $157K, or an increase of 420%.

#4 As a function of pupulation pumping that much money into the ecomomy, said economy is going to cause runaway inflation. So for the working stiff paying the bills life wouldn't be pretty.

WW

 

[beagle9]

Say I'm retiring next year @65.

Monthly SS Retirement = $3100
Annual SS Retirement = $37,200
Expected Death Actuary Age = 78
Lifetime SS Retirement Benefits: $3100 per month * 12 Months * 13 years = $483,600 (After COLA's call it $500,000).

The alternative proposal

Monthly SS Retirement = $0
Substitute one time payment of $5,000,000
Marginal Income taxes are $1,844,393
After Tax Income then equal $3,155,607
At a 5% Real Rate of Return (after applicable fees) = $157,780.35
Over 13 years live expectancy that would be in additioanl income = $2,051,144.55

Observations:

#1 Anyone not taking that deal should have their head examined as it's a great deal on an individual basis.

#2 For the taxpayers, not so great a deal because instead of paying out $500,000 over 13 years, that cost, a signiifcant upgrade to benefits overall is uploaded and upgraded at the front end to a one time cash payment of $5,000,000.

#3 If after taxes, the individual invested the remaining $3.1 Million, they could increase their annual income (based on SS Retirement) from $37K to approximately $157K, or an increase of 420%.

#4 As a function of pupulation pumping that much money into the ecomomy, said economy is going to cause runaway inflation. So for the working stiff paying the bills life wouldn't be pretty.

WW

Who is suggesting this "alternative proposal" ??

 

[Mashmont]

I keep running across people who postulate that if we paid something like 5 million dollars, would there be a savings overall, would it make Social Security solvent?

The premise is, if you receive 5 million dollars from the Feds for retirement and then have to LEAVE the Social Security entitlement program.

Here is the Perplexity.ai Conversation.:

Question:
Given the current value of the dollar, how much would it cost taxpayers upfront to give every 63-year-old person in the United States $5 million in exchange for ending their participation in Social Security?

In addition, if every person 63 and older where to quit social security, how large a buffer would that be on social securities solvency?

Upfront Cost Analysis: Paying Every 63-Year-Old $5 Million​

Based on current demographic and economic data, giving every 63-year-old American $5 million to exit Social Security would require an upfront investment of approximately $17.8 trillion.

The Mathematics​

In 1962, there were 4,167,362 births in the United States. Based on survival rate data, approximately 85.5% of that birth cohort is still alive today, translating to roughly 3.56 million people currently age 63 in 2025. At $5 million per person, the total cost would be:infoplease+2

• Total upfront cost: $17.82 trillion
• Cost per taxpayer: $96,823 (based on 184 million workers paying payroll taxes)ssa
• As percentage of GDP: 61.4% of the estimated $29 trillion US GDP in 2025cnn+1

Financing Context​

To put this in perspective, this represents approximately 71% of Social Security's entire 75-year actuarial deficit of $25.1 trillion. The upfront cost is massive—roughly 6.5 times larger than the current Social Security trust fund balance of $2.72 trillion.crfb+2

Impact on Social Security's Solvency​

If everyone age 63 and older stopped receiving Social Security benefits, the financial impact would be transformative and dramatic.

Annual Savings Calculation​

Currently, there are approximately 58.6 million Social Security beneficiaries age 63 and older, representing about 95% of all Social Security beneficiaries. This includes:ssa+1

• Ages 63-69: 17.1 million beneficiaries
• Ages 70-84: 35.3 million beneficiaries
• Ages 85+: 6.2 million beneficiaries

With an average retired worker benefit of $2,008 per month ($24,096 annually), eliminating benefits for this group would save approximately $1.41 trillion per year.ssa+3

Solvency Extension​

This annual savings would have extraordinary effects on Social Security's finances:

Current trajectory without intervention:bipartisanpolicy+1

• Annual deficit: $67 billion
• Trust fund depletion: 2033 (8 years away)
• Automatic benefit cut upon insolvency: 23%

Impact of eliminating 63+ benefits:

• Annual savings: $1.41 trillion
• Transforms deficit to surplus: From -$67 billion to +$1.35 trillion annually
• Savings-to-deficit ratio: 21.1x the current annual deficit
• Insolvency risk: Eliminated indefinitely

The annual savings of $1.41 trillion represents approximately 95% of total Social Security spending, essentially restructuring the program to serve only those under age 63.usafacts+1

Long-Term Financial Analysis​

Payback Period: The upfront cost would be recovered through annual savings in approximately 12.6 years. After this break-even point, the system would generate massive annual surpluses.

75-Year Outlook: The $1.41 trillion in annual savings would completely eliminate Social Security's projected 75-year deficit of $25.1 trillion in just 17.8 years—far faster than the 75-year projection window.crr.bc+1

Buffer Creation: Rather than facing insolvency in 2033, the trust fund would grow by approximately $1.35 trillion annually after accounting for the eliminated deficit, creating an unprecedented cushion for the program.ssa+1

Financial Trade-offs​

This hypothetical policy presents a stark trade-off between short-term fiscal shock and long-term structural solvency:

Year 1​

• Cost: $17.82 trillion upfront payment
• Savings: $1.41 trillion from eliminated benefits
• Net impact: -$16.4 trillion

Years 2-13​

• Continued annual savings of $1.41 trillion
• Cumulative savings approaching the initial investment

Year 13+​

• Full recovery of upfront costs
• Ongoing annual surplus of approximately $1.35 trillion
• Social Security transformed from structurally insolvent to abundantly solvent

Economic Context​

The scale of this proposal is historically unprecedented. The $17.8 trillion upfront cost represents more than half of annual US GDP and would require financing mechanisms far beyond normal federal budgeting—likely involving massive borrowing, asset sales, or money creation, each carrying significant economic consequences.bea+1

Critical Considerations​

Several important factors limit the precision of these estimates:

Assumptions: This analysis assumes universal participation (all 63-year-olds accept), immediate exit of all 63+ beneficiaries, and stable benefit levels for remaining participants.

Unmodeled factors: The analysis doesn't account for how such an enormous wealth transfer would affect the broader economy, inflation, labor markets, or other government programs. The financing mechanism for $17.8 trillion remains unspecified.

Benefit equity: The $5 million payment may be substantially less than lifetime expected benefits for high earners who would have collected benefits into their 90s, while representing a windfall for lower earners with shorter life expectancies.smartasset+1

In summary, while paying every 63-year-old $5 million would cost taxpayers an immediate $17.82 trillion ($96,823 per taxpayer), eliminating everyone age 63 and older from Social Security would save approximately $1.41 trillion annually—creating a massive buffer that would not only prevent the system's projected 2033 insolvency but transform it into a structurally sound program within about 13 years.ssa+5

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Thoughts?

Social security was another Marxist lie sold by the left in the 1930s. Just like the Income Tax was promised never to go higher than 1% and 0bamacare was promised to lower our rates, SS was promised to be never exceed 1% of payroll. Now it's up to 12%. But it's never that way with the left. All spending programs become behemoths.

The answer is to get the government out of everything. Abolish SS. Let people invest their own money. Abolish 0bamacare. Give insurance back to the private sector. Abolish welfare. Turn it over to charity. Abolish progressive income tax.

 

[beagle9]

Social security was another Marxist lie sold by the left in the 1930s. Just like the Income Tax was promised never to go higher than 1% and 0bamacare was promised to lower our rates, SS was promised to be never exceed 1% of payroll. Now it's up to 12%. But it's never that way with the left. All spending programs become behemoths.

The answer is to get the government out of everything. Abolish SS. Let people invest their own money. Abolish 0bamacare. Give insurance back to the private sector. Abolish welfare. Turn it over to charity. Abolish progressive income tax.

Invest their own money thing eh ?

What, invest it into a system that is run by corrupt sharks swirling around waiting to steal that money, and then the poor investor is looked upon like a dumb rube who will be accused of making the wrong choices or maybe accused of being to greedy thus covering up the corruption that took grandpa and grannies money ?????

Do you not realize the whole reasoning for past government interventions into the private sector's when thing's went bad ? It was to help stop corruption that was taking advantage of the people, and otherwise making government look as though it was complicit in it.

The problem as of this new government generation of officials is that these official's became more and more corrupt over time, and a shift took place, and so therefore the government began out doing the private sector on the corruption scale, and that shifted the blame over onto the government, and therefore making the private sector appear as if it is the least corrupt now. It's nothing but an opportunist back and forth going on.

Trump is hated by the corrupt side of government and by those in the private sector who are corrupt. It's all because he has drawn a straight line through it all which has done away with the good cop/bad cop way in which the system had gotten used too. He has exposed a lot of things that the citizens knew, but figured that they were powerless to stop.

Good government means good governance for the people, and if they have a good rep trying to fix thing's and help, then they best stay connected and involved if they want results.

Obama kept saying it during his term, otherwise it is the people's involvement that will make his BS successful, and although the people were blinded by the BS, they got that message and helped him almost destroy the nation.