An intersting conversation to save Social Security via direct payment to those 63 years of age and older.

[1srelluc]

Well, it isn't specified since I didn't include state-sponsored SS program extensions.

When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Between her dire covid experience and the complications thereafter the wife racked-up nearly 1.5 million in hospital costs in two years.

If you have to go off of Medicare (I mistyped before) then it's a non-starter.

 

[Darkwind]

So this plan wants to give $5 Million dollars to every current living 90+ year old, who many, not all, of them would most likely receive under $100,000 in their remaining lifetime.

And this sounds like a good plan?

No, it sounds like an initial thought on how to resolve the upcoming insolvency issue with SS without forcing people to extend their retirement beyond a reasonable age.

I don't want to force people to wait until age 70+ to retire or receive retirement benefits.

Clearly, the conversation hasn't gotten to the point of graduating the recipients. Clearly, it is a waste to give 5 million to a 90-year-old, but I'm sure that what would be appropriate can be figured out. Remember, that number is going to have to include and coer current and ongoing medical issues.

I am not promoting this as an actual policy, but offering it up as a topic of discussion. Rather than the usual insulting comments. Though, clearly some are unable to refrain.

 

[Darkwind]

When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Between her dire covid experience and the complications thereafter the wife racked-up nearly 1.5 million in hospital costs in two years.

If you have to go off of Medicare (I mistyped before) then it's a non-starter.

She had it bad? My wife is still suffering from the 'long' version of the virus. She can't taste or smell very well, even today.

What we know for a fact is that if we do nothing right now, Social Security will be gone by 2038.

 

[Foxfyre]

I keep running across people who postulate that if we paid something like 5 million dollars, would there be a savings overall, would it make Social Security solvent?

The premise is, if you receive 5 million dollars from the Feds for retirement and then have to LEAVE the Social Security entitlement program.

Here is the Perplexity.ai Conversation.:

Question:
Given the current value of the dollar, how much would it cost taxpayers upfront to give every 63-year-old person in the United States $5 million in exchange for ending their participation in Social Security?

In addition, if every person 63 and older where to quit social security, how large a buffer would that be on social securities solvency?

Upfront Cost Analysis: Paying Every 63-Year-Old $5 Million​

Based on current demographic and economic data, giving every 63-year-old American $5 million to exit Social Security would require an upfront investment of approximately $17.8 trillion.

The Mathematics​

In 1962, there were 4,167,362 births in the United States. Based on survival rate data, approximately 85.5% of that birth cohort is still alive today, translating to roughly 3.56 million people currently age 63 in 2025. At $5 million per person, the total cost would be:infoplease+2

• Total upfront cost: $17.82 trillion
• Cost per taxpayer: $96,823 (based on 184 million workers paying payroll taxes)ssa
• As percentage of GDP: 61.4% of the estimated $29 trillion US GDP in 2025cnn+1

Financing Context​

To put this in perspective, this represents approximately 71% of Social Security's entire 75-year actuarial deficit of $25.1 trillion. The upfront cost is massive—roughly 6.5 times larger than the current Social Security trust fund balance of $2.72 trillion.crfb+2

Impact on Social Security's Solvency​

If everyone age 63 and older stopped receiving Social Security benefits, the financial impact would be transformative and dramatic.

Annual Savings Calculation​

Currently, there are approximately 58.6 million Social Security beneficiaries age 63 and older, representing about 95% of all Social Security beneficiaries. This includes:ssa+1

• Ages 63-69: 17.1 million beneficiaries
• Ages 70-84: 35.3 million beneficiaries
• Ages 85+: 6.2 million beneficiaries

With an average retired worker benefit of $2,008 per month ($24,096 annually), eliminating benefits for this group would save approximately $1.41 trillion per year.ssa+3

Solvency Extension​

This annual savings would have extraordinary effects on Social Security's finances:

Current trajectory without intervention:bipartisanpolicy+1

• Annual deficit: $67 billion
• Trust fund depletion: 2033 (8 years away)
• Automatic benefit cut upon insolvency: 23%

Impact of eliminating 63+ benefits:

• Annual savings: $1.41 trillion
• Transforms deficit to surplus: From -$67 billion to +$1.35 trillion annually
• Savings-to-deficit ratio: 21.1x the current annual deficit
• Insolvency risk: Eliminated indefinitely

The annual savings of $1.41 trillion represents approximately 95% of total Social Security spending, essentially restructuring the program to serve only those under age 63.usafacts+1

Long-Term Financial Analysis​

Payback Period: The upfront cost would be recovered through annual savings in approximately 12.6 years. After this break-even point, the system would generate massive annual surpluses.

75-Year Outlook: The $1.41 trillion in annual savings would completely eliminate Social Security's projected 75-year deficit of $25.1 trillion in just 17.8 years—far faster than the 75-year projection window.crr.bc+1

Buffer Creation: Rather than facing insolvency in 2033, the trust fund would grow by approximately $1.35 trillion annually after accounting for the eliminated deficit, creating an unprecedented cushion for the program.ssa+1

Financial Trade-offs​

This hypothetical policy presents a stark trade-off between short-term fiscal shock and long-term structural solvency:

Year 1​

• Cost: $17.82 trillion upfront payment
• Savings: $1.41 trillion from eliminated benefits
• Net impact: -$16.4 trillion

Years 2-13​

• Continued annual savings of $1.41 trillion
• Cumulative savings approaching the initial investment

Year 13+​

• Full recovery of upfront costs
• Ongoing annual surplus of approximately $1.35 trillion
• Social Security transformed from structurally insolvent to abundantly solvent

Economic Context​

The scale of this proposal is historically unprecedented. The $17.8 trillion upfront cost represents more than half of annual US GDP and would require financing mechanisms far beyond normal federal budgeting—likely involving massive borrowing, asset sales, or money creation, each carrying significant economic consequences.bea+1

Critical Considerations​

Several important factors limit the precision of these estimates:

Assumptions: This analysis assumes universal participation (all 63-year-olds accept), immediate exit of all 63+ beneficiaries, and stable benefit levels for remaining participants.

Unmodeled factors: The analysis doesn't account for how such an enormous wealth transfer would affect the broader economy, inflation, labor markets, or other government programs. The financing mechanism for $17.8 trillion remains unspecified.

Benefit equity: The $5 million payment may be substantially less than lifetime expected benefits for high earners who would have collected benefits into their 90s, while representing a windfall for lower earners with shorter life expectancies.smartasset+1

In summary, while paying every 63-year-old $5 million would cost taxpayers an immediate $17.82 trillion ($96,823 per taxpayer), eliminating everyone age 63 and older from Social Security would save approximately $1.41 trillion annually—creating a massive buffer that would not only prevent the system's projected 2033 insolvency but transform it into a structurally sound program within about 13 years.ssa+5

1. Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year
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8. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2025/II_A_highlights.html
9. Social Security’s Financial Outlook: The 2025 Update in Perspective
10. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/byage.html
11. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/fast_facts/2025/fast_facts25.pdf
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13. What Is the Average Social Security Check in 2025?
14. https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/colafacts2025.pdf
15. 2025 Social Security Trustees Report Explained | Bipartisan Policy Center
16. https://www.spglobal.com/market-int...-to-be-65-years-old-or-older-by-2030-86270288
17. Older Adults Outnumber Children in 11 States and Nearly Half of U.S. Counties
18. How The 2025 Budget Act Accelerates Social Security’s Insolvency
19. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
20. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
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23. https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2025/
24. Older Population and Aging
25. Social Security's insolvency date is now a year earlier. Here's how it could impact your benefits.
26. Government shutdown delays Social Security's cost-of-living announcement. Here's what to know.
27. 51 Surprising Statistics On Aging In America (2025 Edition) - Home Care Agency | Global One Home Care
28. Social Security Insolvency Date Accelerated Under OBBBA
29. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/SSI.html
30. By the Numbers: America’s Aging Population Fact Sheet
31. Social Security Board of Trustees: Projection for Combined Trust Funds One Year Sooner than Last Year | SSA
32. United States Population by Age - 2025 Update | Neilsberg
33. Ultimate Senior Citizens Statistics In The U.S. (2025): Demographics, Health & More - Bradley Windrow
34. Population over 65 by state
35. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-social-security-payment-fall-100537692.html
36. Census Bureau Releases New U.S. Population Estimates by Age and Sex
37. National Population by Characteristics: 2020-2024
38. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/Benefits.html
39. US population by year, race, age, ethnicity, & more
40. The Year 2025: Record Numbers Are Turning 65…What It Means for You - Bankers Life Blog
41. https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/18/average-social-security-payments-in-every-state.html
42. Population Change by State 2025
43. https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-01903.html
44. United States Population by Age and Sex
45. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsus_1962_1.pdf
46. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/benefits/ra_age202412.html
47. https://data.census.gov
48. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/cohort_fertility_tables_1960_2005_appendix.pdf
49. How Much Have Social Security Claiming Ages Increased?
50. Population Projections
51. https://www.census.gov/topics/population/publications.html
52. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quickfacts/stat_snapshot/
54. https://www.fertilitydata.org/File/GetFile/Raw/USA_32.pdf
55. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/1960.html
56. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers
57. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-social-security-benefit-every-120016509.html
58. https://proximityone.com/statepop2025.htm
59. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/ProgData/ar_drc.html
60. https://acl.gov/sites/default/files/Profile of OA/ACL_ProfileOlderAmericans2023_508.pdf
61. https://aging.ny.gov/2025-data-book-new-york-county
62. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPPOP1564TOZSUSA
63. https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/population-65-and-over.html
64. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/many-people-left-were-born-083025143.html
65. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population/
66. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr74/nvsr74-02.pdf
67. https://www.psca.org/news/psca-news...ongevity-readiness-report/?ite=49533&ito=1694
68. https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/popest-popproj/popest/popest-vars.html
69. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr74/nvsr74-06.pdf
70. https://www.census.gov/popclock/
71. https://www.ssa.gov/cola/
72. https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/FACTS/
73. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explai...tional-4000-deduction-for-seniors-simplified/
74. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/tr/2025/tr2025.pdf
75. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html
76. https://waysandmeans.house.gov/2025...edicare-and-social-security-trustees-reports/
78. https://seniorsleague.org/press-brief-10152025/
79. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)
80. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-the-maximum-social-security-payment-for-2025/
81. https://thousandcankers.com/goodbye-to-retirement-at-67-1000/
82. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/full-retirement-age/
83. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/05/20/what-the-data-says-about-social-security/
84. https://www.kiplinger.com/retiremen...-beneficiaries-should-know-about-2025-numbers
85. https://fortune.com/2025/10/07/data...rst-half-2025-jason-furman-harvard-economist/
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87. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
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91. https://www.ey.com/en_us/insights/strategy/macroeconomics/us-gdp
92. https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.e...security-baseline-and-alternative-assumptions
93. https://www.cms.gov/oact/tr/2025
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Thoughts?

The thing is, the government calculations figure in the probability--perhaps the hope--that many will never draw much, if any, social security. If you die on the day you could begin drawing social security, your spouse, if any, will receive a teensy funeral allowance--I think $100?--but neither you nor your heirs will see a penny of all you've paid into the fund. A significant bonus for the U.S. treasury.

Giving people money up front with the agreement they'll not draw social security would take away that advantage. The money would be in their estate and used by whomever inherits that estate.

I would take $1 million and probably quite a bit less with the agreement I wouldn't draw social security. Living on social security is possible but it by no means allows you to do all the fun or generous things you would love to do or cover really big expenses for repairs, health or whatever. $1 million or probably a lot less, wisely invested, would give me a comfortable living the rest of my life.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No, it sounds like an initial thought on how to resolve the upcoming insolvency issue with SS without forcing people to extend their retirement beyond a reasonable age.

I don't want to force people to wait until age 70+ to retire or receive retirement benefits.

Clearly, the conversation hasn't gotten to the point of graduating the recipients. Clearly, it is a waste to give 5 million to a 90-year-old, but I'm sure that what would be appropriate can be figured out. Remember, that number is going to have to include and coer current and ongoing medical issues.

I am not promoting this as an actual policy, but offering it up as a topic of discussion. Rather than the usual insulting comments. Though, clearly some are unable to refrain.

You are right, but we should insult people who propose stupid ideas. Maybe next time they will actually think before they speak.

 

[Darkwind]

So, I aked to verify it's numbers.

Verification Complete: All Budget Numbers Are Accurate​

After cross-referencing multiple authoritative sources, all major budgetary figures used in the earlier analysis are confirmed accurate.

Federal Government Revenue & Spending (FY 2025)​

Category	Official Amount	Source
Total Federal Revenue	$5.235 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Total Federal Spending	$7.010 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Federal Deficit	$1.775 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)crfb+1

These are the actual final figures for fiscal year 2025 (which ended September 30, 2025), not projections.reuters+1

Social Security-Specific Figures​

Metric	Amount	Verification Source
SS Total Spending (2024)	$1.485 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Trust Fund Balance (2025)	$2.721 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Annual Cash Deficit	$60-80 billion	CRFB & Boston College CRRcrfb+1
Our estimate used	$67 billion	✓ Within official range
Insolvency Year (OASI)	2033	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
75-Year Shortfall	$25.1 trillion (PV)	SSA Trustees Reportcrfb+1

Cost Calculations Verified​

Calculation	Without Means Test	With Means Test
Total buyout cost	$17.82 trillion	$16.12 trillion
Cost per taxpayer	$96,823	$87,625
As % of GDP	61.4%	55.6%

Key Confirmations​

✓ Federal revenue: The U.S. government collected a record $5.235 trillion in FY 2025, up 6% from 2024, driven by tariff revenues (+$118B), individual income taxes, and payroll taxes.fred.stlouisfed+1
✓ Social Security spending: At $1.485 trillion (5.2% of GDP), Social Security represents approximately 21% of total federal spending.americanactionforum+2
✓ Deficit projections: The $67 billion annual Social Security cash deficit estimate falls squarely within the official range of $60-80 billion reported by independent budget analysts.crfb+1
✓ Trust fund solvency: The projected 2033 insolvency date for the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund is confirmed across SSA, CBO, and CRFB sources.ssa+2
✓ GDP reference: 2025 GDP is approximately $29 trillion, consistent with recent BEA quarterly data showing Q2 2025 GDP growth at 3.8% annually.cnn+2

Conclusion​

All budgets, deficits, revenue projections, and Social Security-specific data used in the original buyout cost analysis are accurate and verified against official U.S. Treasury, Social Security Administration, Congressional Budget Office, and independent policy research sources. The figures reflect actual FY 2025 data where available, and official projections from the 2025 SSA Trustees Report for Social Security-specific metrics.

1. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...billion-1775-trillion-fiscal-2025-2025-10-16/
2. Treasury Confirms $1.8 Trillion Deficit in FY 2025 | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
3. Monthly Budget Review: September 2025
4. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
5. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/tr/2025/tr2025.pdf
6. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2025/II_A_highlights.html
7. Analysis of the 2025 Social Security Trustees' Report | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
8. Social Security’s Financial Outlook: The 2025 Update in Perspective
9. Social Security's insolvency date is now a year earlier. Here's how it could impact your benefits.
10. Federal government total receipts
11. Highlights of CBO's March 2025 Long-term Budget Outlook - AAF
12. Social Security Retirement Fund Insolvency Date: 2033
13. https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/25/economy/us-gdp-q2-final
14. Gross Domestic Product, 2nd Quarter 2025 (Third Estimate), GDP by Industry, Corporate Profits (Revised), and Annual Update | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
15. United States Government Revenues
16. Government annual receipts by quarter U.S. 2025| Statista
17. Deficit Tracker | Bipartisan Policy Center
18. What Kinds of Revenue Does the Government Collect? | Bipartisan Policy Center
19. Tax Collections Remain Strong in 2025 Despite IRS Concerns — Penn Wharton Budget Model
20. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/budget_fy2025.pdf
21. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-06/61302-MBR.pdf
22. Monthly Budget Review: March 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
23. Government Receipts and Expenditures: First Quarter of 2025
24. Gross Domestic Product: | FRED | St. Louis Fed
25. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/14/text
26. What are the sources of revenue for the federal government?
27. Total Federal Receipts
28. Govinfo
29. Monthly Budget Review: February 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
30. 2025 United States federal budget - Wikipedia
31. Trump CEA Projections Tracker | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
32. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2025-Table.pdf
33. https://www.pgpf.org/article/long-term-budget-outlook-leaves-no-room-for-costly-legislation/
34. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-03/61187-Long-Term-Outlook-2025.pdf
35. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61172
36. https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-estimates-3-trillion-debt-house-passed-obbba
37. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/visualizing-cbos-budget-and-economic-outlook/
38. https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12477
39. https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/...trln-before-any-trump-tax-changes-2025-01-17/

 

[Darkwind]

The thing is, the government calculations figure in the probability--perhaps the hope--that many will never draw much, if any, social security. If you die on the day you could begin drawing social security, your spouse, if any, will receive a teensy funeral allowance--I think $100?--but neither you nor your heirs will see a penny of all you've paid into the fund. A significant bonus for the U.S. treasury.

Giving people money up front with the agreement they'll not draw social security would take away that advantage. The money would be in their estate and used by whomever inherits that estate.

Which could be an enticement.

My biggest problem is with the intial handout. That is a shit load of money.

 

[Darkwind]

You are right, but we should insult people who propose stupid ideas. Maybe next time they will actually think before they speak.

What punishment would you like?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Current retirement age for those born 1960 or after is 67.

He can't even get that right!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What punishment would you like?

STFU if you can't answer a simple question.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, I aked to verify it's numbers.

Verification Complete: All Budget Numbers Are Accurate​

After cross-referencing multiple authoritative sources, all major budgetary figures used in the earlier analysis are confirmed accurate.

Federal Government Revenue & Spending (FY 2025)​

Category	Official Amount	Source
Total Federal Revenue	$5.235 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Total Federal Spending	$7.010 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Federal Deficit	$1.775 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)crfb+1

These are the actual final figures for fiscal year 2025 (which ended September 30, 2025), not projections.reuters+1

Social Security-Specific Figures​

Metric	Amount	Verification Source
SS Total Spending (2024)	$1.485 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Trust Fund Balance (2025)	$2.721 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Annual Cash Deficit	$60-80 billion	CRFB & Boston College CRRcrfb+1
Our estimate used	$67 billion	✓ Within official range
Insolvency Year (OASI)	2033	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
75-Year Shortfall	$25.1 trillion (PV)	SSA Trustees Reportcrfb+1

Cost Calculations Verified​

Calculation	Without Means Test	With Means Test
Total buyout cost	$17.82 trillion	$16.12 trillion
Cost per taxpayer	$96,823	$87,625
As % of GDP	61.4%	55.6%

Key Confirmations​

✓ Federal revenue: The U.S. government collected a record $5.235 trillion in FY 2025, up 6% from 2024, driven by tariff revenues (+$118B), individual income taxes, and payroll taxes.fred.stlouisfed+1
✓ Social Security spending: At $1.485 trillion (5.2% of GDP), Social Security represents approximately 21% of total federal spending.americanactionforum+2
✓ Deficit projections: The $67 billion annual Social Security cash deficit estimate falls squarely within the official range of $60-80 billion reported by independent budget analysts.crfb+1
✓ Trust fund solvency: The projected 2033 insolvency date for the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund is confirmed across SSA, CBO, and CRFB sources.ssa+2
✓ GDP reference: 2025 GDP is approximately $29 trillion, consistent with recent BEA quarterly data showing Q2 2025 GDP growth at 3.8% annually.cnn+2

Conclusion​

All budgets, deficits, revenue projections, and Social Security-specific data used in the original buyout cost analysis are accurate and verified against official U.S. Treasury, Social Security Administration, Congressional Budget Office, and independent policy research sources. The figures reflect actual FY 2025 data where available, and official projections from the 2025 SSA Trustees Report for Social Security-specific metrics.

1. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...billion-1775-trillion-fiscal-2025-2025-10-16/
2. Treasury Confirms $1.8 Trillion Deficit in FY 2025 | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
3. Monthly Budget Review: September 2025
4. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
5. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/tr/2025/tr2025.pdf
6. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2025/II_A_highlights.html
7. Analysis of the 2025 Social Security Trustees' Report | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
8. Social Security’s Financial Outlook: The 2025 Update in Perspective
9. Social Security's insolvency date is now a year earlier. Here's how it could impact your benefits.
10. Federal government total receipts
11. Highlights of CBO's March 2025 Long-term Budget Outlook - AAF
12. Social Security Retirement Fund Insolvency Date: 2033
13. https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/25/economy/us-gdp-q2-final
14. Gross Domestic Product, 2nd Quarter 2025 (Third Estimate), GDP by Industry, Corporate Profits (Revised), and Annual Update | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
15. United States Government Revenues
16. Government annual receipts by quarter U.S. 2025| Statista
17. Deficit Tracker | Bipartisan Policy Center
18. What Kinds of Revenue Does the Government Collect? | Bipartisan Policy Center
19. Tax Collections Remain Strong in 2025 Despite IRS Concerns — Penn Wharton Budget Model
20. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/budget_fy2025.pdf
21. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-06/61302-MBR.pdf
22. Monthly Budget Review: March 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
23. Government Receipts and Expenditures: First Quarter of 2025
24. Gross Domestic Product: | FRED | St. Louis Fed
25. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/14/text
26. What are the sources of revenue for the federal government?
27. Total Federal Receipts
28. Govinfo
29. Monthly Budget Review: February 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
30. 2025 United States federal budget - Wikipedia
31. Trump CEA Projections Tracker | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
32. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2025-Table.pdf
33. https://www.pgpf.org/article/long-term-budget-outlook-leaves-no-room-for-costly-legislation/
34. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-03/61187-Long-Term-Outlook-2025.pdf
35. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61172
36. https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-estimates-3-trillion-debt-house-passed-obbba
37. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/visualizing-cbos-budget-and-economic-outlook/
38. https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12477
39. https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/...trln-before-any-trump-tax-changes-2025-01-17/

Which could be an enticement.

My biggest problem is with the intial handout. That is a shit load of money.

Where is it coming from?

 

[Darkwind]

STFU if you can't answer a simple question.

So, before I put you on My ignore list for the absolute idiot you are, exactly which link(s) in the above conversation are wrong?

I'd like to ask you what you think about the concept without the numbers, as a way to work toward some solution, but I won't see your answer.

You're a ******* tool, and as such, you're going to the recycled tool bin.

Goodbye.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So, I aked to verify it's numbers.

Verification Complete: All Budget Numbers Are Accurate​

After cross-referencing multiple authoritative sources, all major budgetary figures used in the earlier analysis are confirmed accurate.

Federal Government Revenue & Spending (FY 2025)​

Category	Official Amount	Source
Total Federal Revenue	$5.235 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Total Federal Spending	$7.010 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)reuters
Federal Deficit	$1.775 trillion	Treasury Department (actual)crfb+1

These are the actual final figures for fiscal year 2025 (which ended September 30, 2025), not projections.reuters+1

Social Security-Specific Figures​

Metric	Amount	Verification Source
SS Total Spending (2024)	$1.485 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Trust Fund Balance (2025)	$2.721 trillion	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
Annual Cash Deficit	$60-80 billion	CRFB & Boston College CRRcrfb+1
Our estimate used	$67 billion	✓ Within official range
Insolvency Year (OASI)	2033	SSA Trustees Reportssa+1
75-Year Shortfall	$25.1 trillion (PV)	SSA Trustees Reportcrfb+1

Cost Calculations Verified​

Calculation	Without Means Test	With Means Test
Total buyout cost	$17.82 trillion	$16.12 trillion
Cost per taxpayer	$96,823	$87,625
As % of GDP	61.4%	55.6%

Key Confirmations​

✓ Federal revenue: The U.S. government collected a record $5.235 trillion in FY 2025, up 6% from 2024, driven by tariff revenues (+$118B), individual income taxes, and payroll taxes.fred.stlouisfed+1
✓ Social Security spending: At $1.485 trillion (5.2% of GDP), Social Security represents approximately 21% of total federal spending.americanactionforum+2
✓ Deficit projections: The $67 billion annual Social Security cash deficit estimate falls squarely within the official range of $60-80 billion reported by independent budget analysts.crfb+1
✓ Trust fund solvency: The projected 2033 insolvency date for the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund is confirmed across SSA, CBO, and CRFB sources.ssa+2
✓ GDP reference: 2025 GDP is approximately $29 trillion, consistent with recent BEA quarterly data showing Q2 2025 GDP growth at 3.8% annually.cnn+2

Conclusion​

All budgets, deficits, revenue projections, and Social Security-specific data used in the original buyout cost analysis are accurate and verified against official U.S. Treasury, Social Security Administration, Congressional Budget Office, and independent policy research sources. The figures reflect actual FY 2025 data where available, and official projections from the 2025 SSA Trustees Report for Social Security-specific metrics.

1. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...billion-1775-trillion-fiscal-2025-2025-10-16/
2. Treasury Confirms $1.8 Trillion Deficit in FY 2025 | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
3. Monthly Budget Review: September 2025
4. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
5. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/tr/2025/tr2025.pdf
6. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2025/II_A_highlights.html
7. Analysis of the 2025 Social Security Trustees' Report | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
8. Social Security’s Financial Outlook: The 2025 Update in Perspective
9. Social Security's insolvency date is now a year earlier. Here's how it could impact your benefits.
10. Federal government total receipts
11. Highlights of CBO's March 2025 Long-term Budget Outlook - AAF
12. Social Security Retirement Fund Insolvency Date: 2033
13. https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/25/economy/us-gdp-q2-final
14. Gross Domestic Product, 2nd Quarter 2025 (Third Estimate), GDP by Industry, Corporate Profits (Revised), and Annual Update | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
15. United States Government Revenues
16. Government annual receipts by quarter U.S. 2025| Statista
17. Deficit Tracker | Bipartisan Policy Center
18. What Kinds of Revenue Does the Government Collect? | Bipartisan Policy Center
19. Tax Collections Remain Strong in 2025 Despite IRS Concerns — Penn Wharton Budget Model
20. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/budget_fy2025.pdf
21. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-06/61302-MBR.pdf
22. Monthly Budget Review: March 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
23. Government Receipts and Expenditures: First Quarter of 2025
24. Gross Domestic Product: | FRED | St. Louis Fed
25. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/14/text
26. What are the sources of revenue for the federal government?
27. Total Federal Receipts
28. Govinfo
29. Monthly Budget Review: February 2025 | Congressional Budget Office
30. 2025 United States federal budget - Wikipedia
31. Trump CEA Projections Tracker | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
32. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2025-Table.pdf
33. https://www.pgpf.org/article/long-term-budget-outlook-leaves-no-room-for-costly-legislation/
34. https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2025-03/61187-Long-Term-Outlook-2025.pdf
35. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61172
36. https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-estimates-3-trillion-debt-house-passed-obbba
37. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/visualizing-cbos-budget-and-economic-outlook/
38. https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12477
39. https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/...trln-before-any-trump-tax-changes-2025-01-17/

Which could be an enticement.

My biggest problem is with the intial handout. That is a shit load of money.

Where is it coming from?

 

[1srelluc]

She had it bad? My wife is still suffering from the 'long' version of the virus. She can't taste or smell very well, even today.

What we know for a fact is that if we do nothing right now, Social Security will be gone by 2038.

She got it real early, before there were even tests available to the public....Damn near took her out.....Two weeks in the hospital.

Now she has liver complications from it that will end up killing her by and by.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Total nonsense. Nobody collects that much

 

[Winco]

No, it sounds like an initial thought on how to resolve the upcoming insolvency issue with SS without forcing people to extend their retirement beyond a reasonable age.

How about raising the CAP without an increased benefit.
Current CAP is $176,100.

If that was raised to $200,000, at (6.2%, or 12.4% for self-employed) , that would put an additional $1,481+ into the SS fund. There are somewhere over 10 Million Americans making over $176,000+.

That alone would add over 14 Billion annually to the SS fund.
Costing the working making over $176,000 a mere total of $1,481 per year, or $123 per month.

If you are making $200,000, you can easily afford $123 per month.


These are the facts, you are certainly welcome to disagree with the idea,
but NOT the facts.

As of 2025, Social Security is projected to pay out approximately $1.6 trillion in benefits and collect around $1.4 trillion to $1.5 trillion through payroll and other taxes.The total annual payout is estimated to be about $1.6 trillion, while income from taxes is expected to be in a similar range, though potentially slightly lower than total expenditures for the year.


$14 Billion annually wouldn't solve the problem, but this was just an example.

 

[1srelluc]

So, before I put you on My ignore list for the absolute idiot you are, exactly which link(s) in the above conversation are wrong?

I'd like to ask you what you think about the concept without the numbers, as a way to work toward some solution, but I won't see your answer.

You're a ******* tool, and as such, you're going to the recycled tool bin.

Goodbye.

That dick was the first member I ever put on ignore. Just a nasty-mouthed and mean-spirited person.

I took him off once and had him back on before the day was over. Jeez.

 

[Darkwind]

She got it real early, before there were even tests available to the public....Damn near took her out.....Two weeks in the hospital.

Now she has liver complications from it that will end up killing her by and by.

I'm sorry to hear that.

It is a consideration to add to the conversation.

 

[Darkwind]

How about raising the CAP without an increased benefit.
Current CAP is $176,100.

If that was raised to $200,000, at (6.2%, or 12.4% for self-employed) , that would put an additional $1,481+ into the SS fund. There are somewhere over 10 Million Americans making over $176,000+.

That alone would add over 14 Billion annually to the SS fund.
Costing the working making over $176,000 a mere total of $1,481 per year, or $123 per month.

If you are making $200,000, you can easily afford $123 per month.


These are the facts, you are certainly welcome to disagree with the idea,
but NOT the facts.

I don't think it would go far enough. The projected deficit is significant. If it falls short, then politicians will want to raise it even more until they get to the point that only the rich will be paying for social security, and that is just morally reprehensible.

So, let's tweak it a bit and ask the question.

Here is the Question:

What would be the solvency aspect of Social Security if we;

Raise the CAP without increasing the benefit?

So, this is interesting.

Solvency Impact of Raising the Social Security Cap to $200,000​

Raising the Social Security taxable maximum from $176,100 to $200,000 without increasing benefits would generate approximately $27 billion in additional annual revenue, but would not achieve permanent solvency.manhattan+2

Revenue Generation​

Per-Worker Tax Increase:

• Employees earning $200,000+: $1,482 additional tax
• Employers: $1,482 additional tax (matching)
• Combined total: $2,964 per worker earning $200k or abovetaxesforexpats+1

Workers Affected:
Approximately 11 million workers (6% of the workforce) earn above the current $176,100 cap. This breaks down as:cnbc+1

• 7.2 million earning $200,000 or more (full additional tax)
• 3.9 million earning $176,100–$200,000 (partial additional tax)

Total Additional Revenue:

• From workers earning $200k+: $21.3 billion annually
• From workers earning $176k–$200k: $5.7 billion annually
• Total: $27 billion per year

Impact on Social Security's Financial Position​

Metric	Current (2025)	After Cap Raise to $200k
Annual deficit	$67 billion	$40 billion
Deficit reduction	—	40% closed
Insolvency year (OASI)	2033	~2036
Years of solvency gained	—	~3 years

Long-Term Outlook​

75-Year Shortfall: The $27 billion in annual revenue represents only about 8% of Social Security's average annual 75-year shortfall of $335 billion. This reform would:crfb+2

• Extend trust fund solvency from 2033 to approximately 2036
• Reduce but not eliminate the annual cash deficit
• Close approximately 40% of the current annual deficit
• Still require additional reforms for permanent solvency

Comparison to Alternative Reform Proposals​

Reform Option	Annual Revenue Gain	Solvency Impact
Cap at $200k (your proposal)	$27 billion	Extends to ~2036
Cap at $250k (Sanders)manhattan	~$45 billion	Extends to ~2038
Cap at $400k (Larson)manhattan	~$75 billion	Extends to ~2042
Eliminate cap entirelymanhattan+1	~$150+ billion	Closes ~50% of 75-yr gap
$5M buyout (63-year-olds)	$1.41 trillion/yr savings	Eliminates insolvency

Critical Considerations​

Breaking the Contribution-Benefit Link: This proposal would fundamentally alter Social Security's structure by taxing earnings from $176,100 to $200,000 without providing corresponding benefit increases. Social Security has historically operated as social insurance where contributions earn proportional (though progressive) benefits. Decoupling taxes from benefits transforms it into more of a welfare program.ssa+1
Who Pays: The 11 million affected workers represent roughly the top 6% of earners. In many high-cost metropolitan areas, $200,000 represents upper-middle-class rather than wealthy households. This could create political resistance.nchstats+2
Economic Effects: Higher marginal tax rates on professional workers could influence:

• Labor supply decisions
• Business formation and entrepreneurship
• Retirement account contributions
• Geographic mobility to lower-tax statesheritage

Not a Complete Solution: Even this reform, combined with other moderate changes, would not achieve permanent solvency. The Social Security Trustees project that even eliminating the cap entirely would only close about half of the 75-year shortfall.pgpf+1

Verification of Your Numbers​

Your calculation of $1,481 matches the employee-side tax increase exactly. Combined with the employer match, the total system gain is $2,964 per worker earning $200,000 or more.kiplinger+1
Your estimate of "over 10 million Americans" earning above $176,000 is accurate—official data shows approximately 11 million workers (6% of the 184 million covered workforce).congress+1

Bottom Line​

Raising the cap to $200,000 without increasing benefits would:

• Generate $27 billion annually in new revenue
• Extend Social Security solvency by approximately 3 years (2033 → 2036)
• Close 40% of the current annual deficit
• Affect approximately 11 million workers (6% of workforce)
• Not achieve permanent solvency on its own

This represents a meaningful but partial reform that would need to be combined with other changes—such as gradual retirement age increases, benefit formula adjustments, or additional revenue measures—to fully address Social Security's long-term funding gap.manhattan+2

1. Don’t Bust the Cap
2. Social Security Reform: Options to Raise Revenues
3. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/policybriefs/pb2009-01.html
4. Social Security wage base increases to $176,100 in 2025 with 2.5% COLA boost | US Expat Tax Service
5. Social Security Tax Limit for 2025: What the Higher Cap Means for Your Paycheck
6. https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/07/mil...ped-paying-into-social-security-for-2025.html
7. https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IF/HTML/IF12360.web.html
8. Analysis of the 2025 Social Security Trustees' Report | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
9. Social Security’s Financial Outlook: The 2025 Update in Perspective
10. Income For Every US State For the Middle Class (2025) - North American Community Hub
11. The Impact of Removing Social Security's Tax Cap on Wages
12. How Much Do You Need to Earn to Be in the Top 1% in Your State? 2025 Study
13. Social Security Wage Base - Wikipedia
14. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
15. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/maxtax.html
16. A Social Security COLA Cap | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
17. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-286.html
18. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
19. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/tax-max/
20. https://www.stash.com/learn/how-much-does-the-average-american-make/
21. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html
22. https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/ni...cial-security-must-adapt-more-unequal-society
24. https://easi.cc/5-big-social-security-2026-changes/
25. https://www.adpresearch.com/high-paying-jobs-theyre-a-dime-a-dozen/
26. https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/social-security/how-to-get-the-maximum-social-security-check
27. https://flowingdata.com/2022/01/26/how-much-americans-make/
28. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
29. https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-02387.html
30. https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html
31. https://www.bls.gov/cps/earnings.htm
32. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explai...tional-4000-deduction-for-seniors-simplified/
33. https://okjob.io/what-is-a-good-salary/?income=176000&period=year
34. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc751

If that was raised to $200,000, at (6.2%, or 12.4% for self-employed) , that would put an additional $1,481+ into the SS fund. There are somewhere over 10 Million Americans making over $176,000+.

 

[Leo123]

How about giving US back all the $$$ they took during our working years? With compounded interest?