Even If Classified Documents Were Recovered In Trump Raid, It Looks Like Chances Of Conviction Are Quite Slim

[Marener]

The FBI and the people that actually took the documents after looking through the boxes. At least try to be informed.

Nope. They did not.

The FBI has said NOTHING about this. The only one from DoJ that said anything was Garland and his statement was brief and said nothing of the sort.

 

[Synthaholic]

How is Paul Manafort the entire Trump campaign?

You're such a lying retard. Thanks for self-identifying by posting this.

Still failing, loser?

 

[easyt65]

Still failing, loser?

How is Paul Manafort the entire Trump Campaign? It's a simple question.

 

[krichton]

Apparently you can be certain of total fantasies. What nefarious purpose would Trump have for these documents? Do you honestly believe that if there was anything dangerous to the U.S. in those documents, that he would turn them over to the Russians? What kind of a buffoon are you?

Are progs all as stupid as you?

Purely a rhetorical question.

I give you exhibit A for why Trump supporters are as gullible as they are dumb, not there wasn't already a mountain of evidence already. What possible reason could Trump have for taking top level nuclear weapons technology secrets among other classified docs and then on top of that, refusing to return them after getting a subpoena, if not for nefarious reasons? Why wouldn't he simply return every single thing he stole, unless there was an enormous reward for that information? Everything Trump has done in his life and as POTUS has been to the benefit of himself no matter if it was creating a fake university to steal tuition or diverting money from his own charity for cancer children into the Trump organization. The list is literally endless. What possible motive would he have to stop there? This is just another potential scheme among many others to benefit himself.

 

[Care4all]

If the FBI that participatrd in the failed coup against Trump and illegally spied on Americans after violating the Patriot act and defrauding the FISA Court cared about not being accused of planting evidence or doing anything else criminal they probably should have allowed Trump's lawyer or someone else neutral to stay and witness their raid / ransacking....

Obviously they did not care.

Trump and family watched every minute on close circuit TV, his lawyer said.

 

[DBA]

I give you exhibit A for why Trump supporters are as gullible as they are dumb, not there wasn't already a mountain of evidence already. What possible reason could Trump have for taking top level nuclear weapons technology secrets among other classified docs and then on top of that, refusing to return them after getting a subpoena, if not for nefarious reasons? Why wouldn't he simply return every single thing he stole, unless there was an enormous reward for that information? Everything Trump has done in his life and as POTUS has been to the benefit of himself no matter if it was creating a fake university to steal tuition or diverting money from his own charity for cancer children into the Trump organization. The list is literally endless. What possible motive would he have to stop there? This is just another potential scheme among many others to benefit himself.

Most Americans were much better off under Trump than Biden and Biden is just getting started with his nonsense. Another 2 years and our country will be in shambles thanks to that idiot and his traitorous handlers.

 

[Independentthinker]

We’ve been through kangaroo Congressional committees from Republicans before. It’s not new. Clinton testified before them for 11 hours and embarrassed Trey Gowdy.

Trey Gowdy left Congress after that. They took a downgrade with Devin Nunes who tried to sell a story about “spy gate” that went no where. They were supposedly going to send Comey, Wray, Strzok, Page, Orr and a bunch of others to jail. Never happened.

You have nothing to take to court. There’s not going to be charges for people who commit imaginary crimes. That’s what you don’t get. Justice doesn’t have a problem with Trump. Trump has a problem with justice. All these Trump groupies complaining about being prosecuted couldn’t follow the law. Trump has this magical effect on people to get them to do really stupid shit, like break the law.

The people you want to go after? They’re not afraid of you.

They should be. Once Republicans take power in the House come January the gloves come off. And, you know what? With the 2024 election coming up we can have prime time hearings exposing everything about Biden there is to expose. With Republicans having the House already and the Senate surely to turn red by 2024, all we have to do is turn the presidency red. With as simple vote of 51 in the House, we can get rid of the filibuster, add seats to the SC, change voting laws, and add red states to the Union.

 

[The Original Tree]

You must have missed the part about intent and knowledge being required.

It's the entire premise of this thread. That even if possession of classified material were to be proven, the charge does not stick without intent or knowledge, as required by all three statutes. You have not addressed that.

It's just a continuation of the 6 year long witch hunt which to date has found nothing. They did the same thing to Manafort and Roger Stone for no just cause.

Why Paul Manafort Really went to Jail

All of Manafort's "Trumped" up charges were leveled at him during the time he worked for The Podestas on behalf of The Obama Regime, when Obama, Clinton and Joe Biden were trying to rig Ukraine's elections to keep a corrupt regime in place to appease Putin...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[j-mac]

Trump knew the signed statement was not true.

Can you please tell me the winning numbers in the next powerball too?

 

[bripat9643]

I give you exhibit A for why Trump supporters are as gullible as they are dumb, not there wasn't already a mountain of evidence already. What possible reason could Trump have for taking top level nuclear weapons technology secrets among other classified docs and then on top of that, refusing to return them after getting a subpoena, if not for nefarious reasons? Why wouldn't he simply return every single thing he stole, unless there was an enormous reward for that information? Everything Trump has done in his life and as POTUS has been to the benefit of himself no matter if it was creating a fake university to steal tuition or diverting money from his own charity for cancer children into the Trump organization. The list is literally endless. What possible motive would he have to stop there? This is just another potential scheme among many others to benefit himself.

The idea that Trump needs the money and was going to sell them doesn't pas the laugh test. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence that there were any nuclear documents. That's just bullshit Garland spewed to scare the public into not questioning the propriety of invading Trump's home and ransacking his belongings.

No one is swallowing your lies about Trump. Deal with reality, not paranoid prog fantasies.

 

[Marener]

They should be. Once Republicans take power in the House come January the gloves come off. And, you know what? With the 2024 election coming up we can have prime time hearings exposing everything about Biden there is to expose. With Republicans having the House already and the Senate surely to turn red by 2024, all we have to do is turn the presidency red. With as simple vote of 51 in the House, we can get rid of the filibuster, add seats to the SC, change voting laws, and add red states to the Union.

We’ve seen you with “your gloves off” and since then the Republican House has only gotten less competent. Trey Gowdy was a former prosecutor and got his ass handed to him by Clinton. Who is your heavy hitter? A PE teacher and Mike McCarthy who is the epitome of forgettable.

Republicans are not going to do any of the dumb crap you are suggesting.

 

[Independentthinker]

We’ve seen you with “your gloves off” and since then the Republican House has only gotten less competent. Trey Gowdy was a former prosecutor and got his ass handed to him by Clinton. Who is your heavy hitter? A PE teacher and Mike McCarthy who is the epitome of forgettable.

Republicans are not going to do any of the dumb crap you are suggesting.

LOL. Sure they are and it will all be legal, just as the Democrats are abusing their power now. Not to even mention a million other things, even Democrats are worried about the Hunter Biden stuff.

 

[Marener]

LOL. Sure they are and it will all be legal, just as the Democrats are abusing their power now. Not to even mention a million other things, even Democrats are worried about the Hunter Biden stuff.

When did Dems end the filibuster and expand the court?

 

[Independentthinker]

When did Dems end the filibuster and expand the court?

LOL. If it hadn't been for Manchin and Sinema Democrats surely would have. But, before you give me any stupid guff, McConnell and the Republicans could have ended the filibuster for everything if they had wanted but McConnell refused, even when Trump was intimidating him to do so.

 

[Marener]

LOL. If it hadn't been for Manchin and Sinema Democrats surely would have. But, before you give me any stupid guff, McConnell and the Republicans could have ended the filibuster for everything if they had wanted but McConnell refused, even when Trump was intimidating him to do so.

But your whole argument was that the gloves are odd and they’re going to do all these things that Dems set a precedent for, but it turns out they didn’t set the precedent for it.

 

[Independentthinker]

But your whole argument was that the gloves are odd and they’re going to do all these things that Dems set a precedent for, but it turns out they didn’t set the precedent for it.

The lengths to which Democrats have gone this time do set precedents. They have raised the bar considerably. But, generally speaking, you're right.

 

[Marener]

The lengths to which Democrats have gone this time do set precedents. They have raised the bar considerably. But, generally speaking, you're right.

Except you admitted there are lengths they haven’t gone to that you want the Republicans to go to.

So it’s not about any kind of precedent. It’s escalation.

 

[Independentthinker]

Except you admitted there are lengths they haven’t gone to that you want the Republicans to go to.

So it’s not about any kind of precedent. It’s escalation.

Well, if Democrats have set the precedent to escalate then why shouldn't Republicans accept that precedent and escalate even more? The precedent is to escalate.

 

[Marener]

Well, if Democrats have set the precedent to escalate then why shouldn't Republicans accept that precedent and escalate even more? The precedent is to escalate.

Who said that Dems set that precedent?

Republicans have been escalating for decades. They impeach Clinton, remember?

 

[hadit]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

I don't really think those behind all this care about getting a conviction. I believe they are simply out for political damage. The timing alone lends credence to that. Seriously, it's been known for a long time that TRUMP! had these documents but only NOW we're going in after them? Sorry, those of you who salivate over the thought of watching TRUMP! do the perp walk, the worst you'll see out of this will be a small (to him) fine.