Euthanasia and/or assisted suicide

[Quantum Windbag]

"Thanks, but I'm not hungry. Please just make me comfortable."

Frankly, this is why nothing every gets done. too many people whip out the cases that are so extreme and unlikely as to be nearly comical and hang their argument on that example.

Euthanasia is pretty much reserved for extreme cases. Apparently you missed that point.

The definition of extreme varies widely. For some, like Noomi, extreme is living a life where you cannot feed yourself, cannot breathe without mechanical assistance, and cannot communicate. For others, like Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawking, that is not worthy of suicide because life holds hope, and they can deal with it.

The point is that, if the government starts laying out criteria for legalized killing, it always expands to include new definitions of extreme. If you care about someone, and want to kill them because you feel it is the right thing, then be prepared to argue that position legally after you do it. Don't expect me to offer you permission in advance based on the fact that we do it for animals, make your case afterwards, and be prepared to prove it was actually the best choice for that person.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

and.....


for someone so dead set against government controls in our life.... why are you against the ultimate decision of ones own life? Why should government prevent anyone from taking their own life?

in my opinion, doctors who are willing to prescribe a lethal dose...should be allowed to do that without government interference or fear of prosecution.

Slippery slope allow the Government that control and it will grow with each passing year till they are deciding when people are useful and when to "end" their uselessness.

Oregon allows it and they have had no such problems. I think the bigger concern would be children who want their parents gone so they can collect their inheritance sooner or before the money runs out.

They haven't had that problem yet, or even officially. There was, however, at least one case of an HMO promoting an assisted suicide, which was a concern raised before the law passed, and never actually written into the law. There is also the fact that one advocacy group has been invovled in roughly 75% of all suicides in Oregon, and that someone seems to be fudging the numbers about medical complications.

Ten Years of Assisted Suicide in Oregon | Patients Rights Council

I still think the best way to deal with people who are in severe pain is to let them get the drugs they need to deal with it. Unfortunately, the government, in its infinite wisdom, disagrees.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

and for all of that lovely poetry...what is it really saying?

It is the plight and prayer of the selfish individual wanting to keep something for himself. He does not want his father to die, he wants him to hang on and fight.....for HIM.

What about what the father wants? doesn't his feeling and wants figure into this? What if the father is ready to go....

It is all about what one person wants someone else to do.....


He is not raging against death... he is raging that his father is dying and he does not want him to die... selfish to the very end.

What about the selfish individual that wants to kill someone simply because they don't like taking care of them?

That is why it cannot be assisted suicide. The person must make the final call themselves and administer the drugs themselves. But I agree that there would need to be plenty of safeguards against this. I believe this is the valid problem versus the idea that government will start killing people.

The real problem is that suicide is rarely the best choice, and that the desire to kill yourself is a symptom of mental illness. That is why I object to the government having any say in it, and why I oppose it on principle.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What about the selfish individual that wants to kill someone simply because they don't like taking care of them?

That is why it cannot be assisted suicide. The person must make the final call themselves and administer the drugs themselves. But I agree that there would need to be plenty of safeguards against this. I believe this is the valid problem versus the idea that government will start killing people.

What about people like Tony Nicklinson who suffered 'locked in syndrome', paralysed by a massive stroke from the neck down. He used to be a sports-loving active man who was unable to administer anything himself.
Courts refused permission for assisted suicide.
It unbelievable that a person would be prosecuted (in this country at least) for keeping an animal in such a condition as Mr.Nicklinson experienced yet we are supposed to go all out to keep a human alive.

It is not a criminal offense to keep a paralyzed dog alive unless you refuse to take care of it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What about the selfish individual that wants to kill someone simply because they don't like taking care of them?

No one should be expected to care for someone if they don't want to, be they relative or not.

That wasn't the question, was it?

 

[tinydancer]

I don't like the term "assisted suicide"

I prefer my life exit strategy. Boy oh boy I can go a quizzillion years on this.

 

[Katzndogz]

That is why it cannot be assisted suicide. The person must make the final call themselves and administer the drugs themselves. But I agree that there would need to be plenty of safeguards against this. I believe this is the valid problem versus the idea that government will start killing people.

What about people like Tony Nicklinson who suffered 'locked in syndrome', paralysed by a massive stroke from the neck down. He used to be a sports-loving active man who was unable to administer anything himself.
Courts refused permission for assisted suicide.
It unbelievable that a person would be prosecuted (in this country at least) for keeping an animal in such a condition as Mr.Nicklinson experienced yet we are supposed to go all out to keep a human alive.

It is not a criminal offense to keep a paralyzed dog alive unless you refuse to take care of it.

Best Friend Mobility Dog Wheelchair | Wayfair

 

[Katzndogz]

Slippery slope allow the Government that control and it will grow with each passing year till they are deciding when people are useful and when to "end" their uselessness.

Oregon allows it and they have had no such problems. I think the bigger concern would be children who want their parents gone so they can collect their inheritance sooner or before the money runs out.

They haven't had that problem yet, or even officially. There was, however, at least one case of an HMO promoting an assisted suicide, which was a concern raised before the law passed, and never actually written into the law. There is also the fact that one advocacy group has been invovled in roughly 75% of all suicides in Oregon, and that someone seems to be fudging the numbers about medical complications.

Ten Years of Assisted Suicide in Oregon | Patients Rights Council

I still think the best way to deal with people who are in severe pain is to let them get the drugs they need to deal with it. Unfortunately, the government, in its infinite wisdom, disagrees.

Probably because someone else would get the drugs, administer them, tell the authorities it was requested. If they don't believe it, ask the victim, who is dead and cannot refute the statement.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oregon allows it and they have had no such problems. I think the bigger concern would be children who want their parents gone so they can collect their inheritance sooner or before the money runs out.

They haven't had that problem yet, or even officially. There was, however, at least one case of an HMO promoting an assisted suicide, which was a concern raised before the law passed, and never actually written into the law. There is also the fact that one advocacy group has been invovled in roughly 75% of all suicides in Oregon, and that someone seems to be fudging the numbers about medical complications.

Ten Years of Assisted Suicide in Oregon | Patients Rights Council

I still think the best way to deal with people who are in severe pain is to let them get the drugs they need to deal with it. Unfortunately, the government, in its infinite wisdom, disagrees.

Probably because someone else would get the drugs, administer them, tell the authorities it was requested. If they don't believe it, ask the victim, who is dead and cannot refute the statement.

Actually, it is because they want to control everything.

 

[Katzndogz]

They haven't had that problem yet, or even officially. There was, however, at least one case of an HMO promoting an assisted suicide, which was a concern raised before the law passed, and never actually written into the law. There is also the fact that one advocacy group has been invovled in roughly 75% of all suicides in Oregon, and that someone seems to be fudging the numbers about medical complications.

Ten Years of Assisted Suicide in Oregon | Patients Rights Council

I still think the best way to deal with people who are in severe pain is to let them get the drugs they need to deal with it. Unfortunately, the government, in its infinite wisdom, disagrees.

Probably because someone else would get the drugs, administer them, tell the authorities it was requested. If they don't believe it, ask the victim, who is dead and cannot refute the statement.

Actually, it is because they want to control everything.

Yes. There is that.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Actually, that's what's wrong about giving the state ownership of women's reproduction.

The developing child is the woman's "pet"?

As usual you miss the point.

Whatever the situation – contemplating the death of a loved one or termination of a pregnancy – that’s a decision best left to the individual and/or family to make, not the state.

As conservatives have preached for decades: government lacks the competence to make such decisions, there needs to be less government involvement in our personal lives.

That's what they say but what they do is the exact opposite.

Then there's religion that wants to force people to be miserable. If you kill yourself you can't be buried in consecrated ground - that sort of thing.

Whether its politics or religion or cultural tradition, there are always those who want to control others. And these meddling butt-in-skis will always find some reason to get all holier than thou about it while lying about it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What about people like Tony Nicklinson who suffered 'locked in syndrome', paralysed by a massive stroke from the neck down. He used to be a sports-loving active man who was unable to administer anything himself.
Courts refused permission for assisted suicide.
It unbelievable that a person would be prosecuted (in this country at least) for keeping an animal in such a condition as Mr.Nicklinson experienced yet we are supposed to go all out to keep a human alive.

It is not a criminal offense to keep a paralyzed dog alive unless you refuse to take care of it.

Best Friend Mobility Dog Wheelchair | Wayfair

I've seen both dogs and cats with wc's. IMO, it can be horribly cruel. Urine and feces dribbling down their legs, burning their skin but clinging to a life they'll never have again.

A lot like some people feel in a wheelchair.

Craig Rehab Hosp in Colorado used to have a requirement for anyone working there that they had to spend a day in a wheelchair. From first thing in the morning, bathing, shopping for groceries, going to a mall, a restaurant - all from a wheelchair.

Those who have the gall to think they can or should be able to decide a para or quad should be forced to stay alive (breathing, not living) could learn a lot from that experience. Only the most arrogant believe they should have that kind of power over other people.

 

[MikeK]

I'm against medically assisted suicide. First Do No Harm and all of that. If you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. Don't be a pussy about it and ask for your doctor to do it for you.

Presuming you are not an MD or some related professional, do you know of a painless way to commit suicide? Because that concern is a very valid reason for wanting an MD, preferably an anesthesiologist, to preside over one's suicide.

 

[Octarine]

I'm against medically assisted suicide. First Do No Harm and all of that. If you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. Don't be a pussy about it and ask for your doctor to do it for you.

That's the dumbest shit I've heard. We treat our dying animals with more compassion than those we love when they are at the end of their journey and in unbearable pain.

My dog can't make the decision for itself, can't carry out the actions, and most importantly, can't say "I've changed my mind."

I got no problem with someone deciding to end it all. Too much pain, too much loneliness, burnt the toast, whatever the reason; if someone wants to check out, then feel free. Just don't make it the doctor's responsibility to do the act by pushing a plunger for you or by giving you the means to do it. Suck start a shotgun, noose from an extension cord, Drain-O cocktail, cut your wrists, head in the oven, face in the bathtub, there are many fine ways to do yourself without getting doctors involved.

Not if you're paralysed from the neck down there isn't.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm against assisted suicide. When we stop considering life precious, the more life will be considered disposable. Assisted suicide does not just effect the individual but it also coarsens the society it happens in. One of many reasons I'm against abortion. Generally speaking, we cannot kill people without degrading ourselves. In other words, when life is seen as something other than precious, the more our neighbors will be eyeing our valuables with hammers and knives in hand.

I am against it too. Well said, John. No one and I do mean no one ( including the person who is on the death bed ) has the right to take their own life. God gives us life and God will take us when He is ready. Not when "we" are ready. What we value and how we protect it says alot about who we are as human beings. - Jeri

 

[Octarine]

What about people like Tony Nicklinson who suffered 'locked in syndrome', paralysed by a massive stroke from the neck down. He used to be a sports-loving active man who was unable to administer anything himself.
Courts refused permission for assisted suicide.
It unbelievable that a person would be prosecuted (in this country at least) for keeping an animal in such a condition as Mr.Nicklinson experienced yet we are supposed to go all out to keep a human alive.

It is not a criminal offense to keep a paralyzed dog alive unless you refuse to take care of it.

Best Friend Mobility Dog Wheelchair | Wayfair

ok..so a dog paralysed from the neck. I think you know what I meant.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm against assisted suicide. When we stop considering life precious, the more life will be considered disposable. Assisted suicide does not just effect the individual but it also coarsens the society it happens in. One of many reasons I'm against abortion. Generally speaking, we cannot kill people without degrading ourselves. In other words, when life is seen as something other than precious, the more our neighbors will be eyeing our valuables with hammers and knives in hand.

This is a slippery slope fallacy.

And allowing the individual to decide end of life matters absent interference by the state is also an acknowledgement of how precious life is, as one’s death is just as important a part of one’s life.

Oh yes, the slippery slope fallacy debunked by 1930's/1940's Germany.

Another great response, John!

 

[Octarine]

I'm against assisted suicide. When we stop considering life precious, the more life will be considered disposable. Assisted suicide does not just effect the individual but it also coarsens the society it happens in. One of many reasons I'm against abortion. Generally speaking, we cannot kill people without degrading ourselves. In other words, when life is seen as something other than precious, the more our neighbors will be eyeing our valuables with hammers and knives in hand.

I am against it too. Well said, John. No one and I do mean no one ( including the person who is on the death bed ) has the right to take their own life. God gives us life and God will take us when He is ready. Not when "we" are ready. What we value and how we protect it says alot about who we are as human beings. - Jeri

What if the person on the death-bed doesn't believe in God?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The developing child is the woman's "pet"?

As usual you miss the point.

Whatever the situation – contemplating the death of a loved one or termination of a pregnancy – that’s a decision best left to the individual and/or family to make, not the state.

As conservatives have preached for decades: government lacks the competence to make such decisions, there needs to be less government involvement in our personal lives.

That's what they say but what they do is the exact opposite.

Then there's religion that wants to force people to be miserable. If you kill yourself you can't be buried in consecrated ground - that sort of thing.

Whether its politics or religion or cultural tradition, there are always those who want to control others. And these meddling butt-in-skis will always find some reason to get all holier than thou about it while lying about it.

You support Obamacare, I don't. You want to control others, I don't.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

As usual you miss the point.

Whatever the situation – contemplating the death of a loved one or termination of a pregnancy – that’s a decision best left to the individual and/or family to make, not the state.

As conservatives have preached for decades: government lacks the competence to make such decisions, there needs to be less government involvement in our personal lives.

That's what they say but what they do is the exact opposite.

Then there's religion that wants to force people to be miserable. If you kill yourself you can't be buried in consecrated ground - that sort of thing.

Whether its politics or religion or cultural tradition, there are always those who want to control others. And these meddling butt-in-skis will always find some reason to get all holier than thou about it while lying about it.

You support Obamacare, I don't. You want to control others, I don't.

Actually, I have consistently posted that no one has the right to control what other people do with their bodies. Period. No exceptions. No restrictions.

We each own our body and we each have the sovereign right to do as we wish with that body.

There are no exceptions to that fact.