Europe: The Psychological Gap Between East and West.

Mindful

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The rift between Western and Central Europe runs deep. It is the result of different definitions of what the EU is and what it should be.

In 2006 I joined official meetings in Warsaw between the Belgian prime minister and the two Kaczyński brothers. The first meeting was with Lech Kaczyński, then president of Poland, who died in a plane crash in 2010; the second was with Jarosław Kaczyński, then prime minister of Poland, who is still the leader of the ruling Law and Justice Party (or PiS) today. I remember well how both the Belgian and the Polish delegations did not seem to understand each other. On the Belgian side, we were surprised to hear how much the Kascyńskis were rambling on about the Russian and the German dangers. The Polish side, on the other hand, didn’t understand why we Belgians were pleading for more European integration, once again.

Today, some twelve years later, this perhaps personal misunderstanding has transformed into an open rift between Western and Eastern (or Central) Europe. This divide was made abundantly clear in the European Parliament in September, when many Eastern European parties voted against sanctioning the Hungarian government, led by Viktor Orbán, for rule-of-law breaches. Many Western Europeans couldn’t understand this support for what Orbán himself calls “illiberal democracy.” At the same time, many Eastern Europeans considered the sanctions unhelpful and certainly one step too far.

Where does this mutual misunderstanding come from? Some would argue it is the result of Europe’s so-called refugee crisis of 2015, when Western European countries tried to push all EU member states to accept and integrate a percentage of the refugees. The refusal by the East frustrated the West. But I believe that the EU’s East-West rift is much older and more fundamental. It is the result of different histories and different views of what Europe is or should be. In other words, Eastern and Western Europe don’t share the same political psychology.

Europe: The Psychological Gap Between East and West
 

Decus

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The EU began as an economic bloc which should be its only role. Sadly German and French politicians pushed a social agenda for the EU, asking member countries to subordinate their sovereignty and culture along the way.

If you look carefully you will see the in France, Italy, Germany and many other EU member countries the rise of populism is in part fueled by citizens no longer willing to subordinate their culture and sovereignty to Brussels.

.
 
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The EU began as an economic bloc which should be its only role. Sadly German and French politicians pushed a social agenda for the EU, asking member countries to subordinate their sovereignty and culture along the way.

If you look carefully you will see the in France, Italy, Germany and many other EU member countries the rise of populism is in part fueled by citizens no longer willing to subordinate their culture and sovereignty to Brussels.

.
:thup:
 

Dogmaphobe

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Hungarians suffered under the yoke of both communism and the Ottomans.

It is only natural for them to resist the machinations of Brussels which combines elements of both.
 

Dan Stubbs

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The rift between Western and Central Europe runs deep. It is the result of different definitions of what the EU is and what it should be.

In 2006 I joined official meetings in Warsaw between the Belgian prime minister and the two Kaczyński brothers. The first meeting was with Lech Kaczyński, then president of Poland, who died in a plane crash in 2010; the second was with Jarosław Kaczyński, then prime minister of Poland, who is still the leader of the ruling Law and Justice Party (or PiS) today. I remember well how both the Belgian and the Polish delegations did not seem to understand each other. On the Belgian side, we were surprised to hear how much the Kascyńskis were rambling on about the Russian and the German dangers. The Polish side, on the other hand, didn’t understand why we Belgians were pleading for more European integration, once again.

Today, some twelve years later, this perhaps personal misunderstanding has transformed into an open rift between Western and Eastern (or Central) Europe. This divide was made abundantly clear in the European Parliament in September, when many Eastern European parties voted against sanctioning the Hungarian government, led by Viktor Orbán, for rule-of-law breaches. Many Western Europeans couldn’t understand this support for what Orbán himself calls “illiberal democracy.” At the same time, many Eastern Europeans considered the sanctions unhelpful and certainly one step too far.

Where does this mutual misunderstanding come from? Some would argue it is the result of Europe’s so-called refugee crisis of 2015, when Western European countries tried to push all EU member states to accept and integrate a percentage of the refugees. The refusal by the East frustrated the West. But I believe that the EU’s East-West rift is much older and more fundamental. It is the result of different histories and different views of what Europe is or should be. In other words, Eastern and Western Europe don’t share the same political psychology.

Europe: The Psychological Gap Between East and West
Letter from Europe about Europe.

I live in Poland and I can tell you the amount of anti-government propaganda and very often blatant lies are spread about Poland in left-wing media in western EU, especially in German newspapers. Did you know that German papers wrote 3 or 4 articles on 'endangered democracy" in Poland and at the same time they "omitted" the attacks of Arabs and Africans on European women in Koln and Hamburg during New Year Eve 2015?
What you need to know is that, these are lies are often spread by Polish propaganda makers (I cannot call them journalists) from "Gazeta Wyborcza", "Newsweek"and some other newspapers, very loyal to Civic platform and former government. Also, Civic platform still has strong representation in Europarliament and there they act against Poland by encouraging debate about law and democracy in our country almost asking for foreign intervention. That's just disgusting what some traitorous politicians are willing to do to come back to power and regain all priviledges.
Democracy in Poland looks excellent. Western Europe with its suicidal political correctness, media censorship and absurd tolerance propaganda can learn from Poland what it means to have freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. You can see, how media works. We have many channels, "public television" which is of course pro-government, we have private networks (TVN, Polsat) and also plenty of internet media.
Believe, western Europe should be affraid of the "religion of peace" coming from Middle East than Polsih democracy alleged issues.

upload_2019-9-4_11-52-24.jpeg
 

Dan Stubbs

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The EU began as an economic bloc which should be its only role. Sadly German and French politicians pushed a social agenda for the EU, asking member countries to subordinate their sovereignty and culture along the way.

If you look carefully you will see the in France, Italy, Germany and many other EU member countries the rise of populism is in part fueled by citizens no longer willing to subordinate their culture and sovereignty to Brussels.

.
Of course networks who make propaganda for „open mindedness“ are Soros-funded like ILGA (LGBTIQ rights), ENAR (European Network Against Racism), Anti Poverty Network, Women’s Lobby (OSF pay f.e. the secretary general) show how influence is exercised via umbrella organizations. One interesting detail is that the Chancellor’s wife Eveline is business partner of Niko Pelinka and his wife while his uncle Anton Pelinka is professor at the Soros funded Central European University in Budapest. Eveline Steinberger-Kern, Niko Pelinka and Markus Wagner created the „Innovation Club“ which connects Austrian entrepreneuers with Silicon Valley (which belongs to the deep state).
 

Dan Stubbs

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The rift between Western and Central Europe runs deep. It is the result of different definitions of what the EU is and what it should be.

In 2006 I joined official meetings in Warsaw between the Belgian prime minister and the two Kaczyński brothers. The first meeting was with Lech Kaczyński, then president of Poland, who died in a plane crash in 2010; the second was with Jarosław Kaczyński, then prime minister of Poland, who is still the leader of the ruling Law and Justice Party (or PiS) today. I remember well how both the Belgian and the Polish delegations did not seem to understand each other. On the Belgian side, we were surprised to hear how much the Kascyńskis were rambling on about the Russian and the German dangers. The Polish side, on the other hand, didn’t understand why we Belgians were pleading for more European integration, once again.

Today, some twelve years later, this perhaps personal misunderstanding has transformed into an open rift between Western and Eastern (or Central) Europe. This divide was made abundantly clear in the European Parliament in September, when many Eastern European parties voted against sanctioning the Hungarian government, led by Viktor Orbán, for rule-of-law breaches. Many Western Europeans couldn’t understand this support for what Orbán himself calls “illiberal democracy.” At the same time, many Eastern Europeans considered the sanctions unhelpful and certainly one step too far.

Where does this mutual misunderstanding come from? Some would argue it is the result of Europe’s so-called refugee crisis of 2015, when Western European countries tried to push all EU member states to accept and integrate a percentage of the refugees. The refusal by the East frustrated the West. But I believe that the EU’s East-West rift is much older and more fundamental. It is the result of different histories and different views of what Europe is or should be. In other words, Eastern and Western Europe don’t share the same political psychology.

Europe: The Psychological Gap Between East and West
Democrat kingmaker George Soros is a long-time Clinton supporter and chairman of Hillary Clinton’s super PAC. He controls and funds hundreds of left-wing politicians and organizations through his Open Society Foundations, a series of non-transparent foundations and NGOs. In the US, his foundations have organized and funded left-wing organizations that seek to destroy America like Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter. Soros is also spending millions hiring professional anti-Trump protesters to initiate violence at Trump campaign events.
To advance the Islamic invasion of Europe, Soros is working aggressively to clamp down on free speech through a campaign to censor language in the European parliament. The leaked documents reveal a strategy to enact legislation that characterizes anti-Muslim language as hate speech punishable by imprisonment.

Newly enacted laws in Germany, that were secretly backed by Soros, ban the criticism of migrants. German authorities are raiding homes to enforce the legislation, which prohibits criticizing or insulting Muslims. German citizens who have posted anti-Muslim material on Facebook are being jailed because the government has decided the opinions being posted can be considered hate speech.

George Soros funds and controls hundreds of left-wing politicians and organizations through a network of non-transparent foundations and NGOs known as the Foundations For Open Society. The foundations within the Soros/Open Society network are generally considered the least transparent in the world. Thus, for decades Soros has hidden in the shadows and has avoided being scrutinized. The hackers who recently hacked the Soros and Open Society computer networks, publishing the documents they acquired, have provided startling insight into Soros evil goals and methods.
 

Coyote

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Tommy Tainant

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
 
OP
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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
 

Tommy Tainant

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
 
OP
Mindful

Mindful

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
 

Decus

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
 
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Mindful

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there is some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Actually yes. I've been to Prague and Kraków. Poland...... like a blossoming flower, throwing off the yoke of Soviet communism.

I live in the west, and there is a pervading sense of atrophy.
 

Coyote

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Eastern Europe seems to be turning towards more authoritarianism and an erosion of liberties. I dont see how that is a good thing. They flooded Western European countries with people in search of better jobs when EU membership opened borders.

https://www.freedomofconscience.eu/deterioration-of-religious-freedom-in-eastern-europe/

In Europe, religious minorities face mounting hostility, harassment - Religion News Service
Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
 

Dogmaphobe

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Membership of the EU is dragging these countries to a better standard of living. That is why they are all so keen to join.There is zero chance that they will throw that away.
What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
They are limiting the ability of those you support who wish to destroy all rights and freedom forever by turning Europe into yet another Islamic cesspool.

A jackboot stomping upon the human face forever is the very antithesis of freedom .
 
OP
Mindful

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What does a "standard of living" even mean?
Oh dear.
Ditto.
If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
They are limiting the ability of those you support who wish to destroy all rights and freedom forever by turning Europe into yet another Islamic cesspool.

A jackboot stomping upon the human face forever is the very antithesis of freedom .
Anti terror units across Europe.



This is the way we live.
 

Dogmaphobe

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If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
They are limiting the ability of those you support who wish to destroy all rights and freedom forever by turning Europe into yet another Islamic cesspool.

A jackboot stomping upon the human face forever is the very antithesis of freedom .
Anti terror units across Europe.



This is the way we live.
I am utterly sickened by all the pieces of refuse living on the West who have dedicated themselves to assisting their Jihad.
 

Coyote

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If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
They are limiting the ability of those you support who wish to destroy all rights and freedom forever by turning Europe into yet another Islamic cesspool.

A jackboot stomping upon the human face forever is the very antithesis of freedom .
Anti terror units across Europe.



This is the way we live.
I am utterly sickened by all the pieces of refuse living on the West who have dedicated themselves to assisting their Jihad.
So you support cracking down on religious freedom and rights?
 

Dogmaphobe

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If you travel through new EU member states the quality of life is often better than what you find in western Europe. All the same chains of stores are present in the new member states from fashion to hypermarkets and the cost of living is often less than in western Europe. Doctors still make house calls and there is a mix of private and public healthcare options at a very affordable cost with well-trained and educated personnel. Some beautiful cities like Budapest, Prague and Krakow rival the beauty of western European cities and there are some very beautiful countryside and historic sites to visit.

New member states are not being dragged, they are moving forward not wishing to imitate the mistakes of western Europe.

.
Meanwhile they are cracking down on rights and freedom.
They are limiting the ability of those you support who wish to destroy all rights and freedom forever by turning Europe into yet another Islamic cesspool.

A jackboot stomping upon the human face forever is the very antithesis of freedom .
Anti terror units across Europe.



This is the way we live.
I am utterly sickened by all the pieces of refuse living on the West who have dedicated themselves to assisting their Jihad.
So you support cracking down on religious freedom and rights?
Turning a western country into an Islamist hellhole is not a right.

Any sovereign country should have the right to refuse entry to those who wish to destroy its culture and replace it with one that is primitive.
 

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