Erasing History

[Pogo]

The statue removal and rewriting of history amounts to nothing more than revenge.

The Orwellian truth what the anti-American, statist, totalitarianism loving, communist Pogster is working on diligently:
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
George Orwell

A statue or monument is in no way "the past", retard. It represents a snapshot of some figure or event, in effect a community's opinion on who or what that community finds honorable or laudable. It may be a biased perspective, it may or may not be accurate. Take North Korea for instance --- monuments everywhere, not a whole lot of historical accuracy. Would it "erase history" to take down monuments that claim the US invaded Korea and the valiant Kim Il Sung fought them off?

As a snapshot it by definition cannot convey context. And context is crucial. That's where the history books come in, and why monuments can never hope to compete with them. A monument that actually presented the relevant context would take up the side of a building and take all day to read, so you might as well read it in a book.

As a monument represents a community's opinion of what's honorable, that community's descendants may decide, upon further historical review, that their opinion is different. And "upon further review" means, again, context. So today's community may decide what yesterday's community found honorable --- isn't.

Know what happened to the Dulles bust at the Dulles airport? Know what happened to the plaque marking the building where the Ku Klux Klan was founded? Covering, hiding or moving these things in no way declares or implies that John Foster Dulles or the Klan never existed. They imply the community associated with them doesn't find it an attractive spotlight.

And that's their business.

It's idiotic and ignorant to compare Robert E. Lee to the Nazis and the Baathists.

It might be, depending on the context. That's got nothing to do with anything I posted since I invoked zero of those entities.

What I DID put there are depictions of people removing monuments because they no longer represent what the locals believe in. Which is exactly what I just described.

See, I figure text is over some people's heads, so I used pictures. Apparently I was right.

The amazing part: neither of those actions "erased" Saddam Hussein or Nazi Germany from history.

Who knew.

 

[Pogo]

It might be how you learn history. That would explain a ton.

Why do you think schools take kids to see the Battlefield of Gettysberg, why do think tourists go to the graveyard of soldiers who died on D-Day?

No idea. I can't for the life of me understand why anybody goes to Gettysburg. That action is over. Been over for a century and a half.

My schools never went there, and I grew up in PA. And if we had I don't know what the point would have been.
What IS the point? Ghost hunting?

Who goes to a sports stadium ---- after the game is already over?

Those who don't know about history is bound to repeat it.

Cannot agree more. Words to live by.

Not sure what that's got to do with going to a battlefield that hasn't been a battlefield for 150+ years though.

It will always be a battlefield and, therfore, hallowed ground. We owe it to the men that fought there to honor their sacrifice.

But what is the point of... going there? That is, taking one's physical presence to that geographic location?

Is it not the same event with the same significance, whether one goes there or not?
Is there anything going on there right now that you can't see anywhere else?
Is the battle still going on?

 

[defcon4]

But what is the point of... going there? That is, taking one's physical presence to that geographic location?

Is it not the same event with the same significance, whether one goes there or not?
Is there anything going on there right now that you can't see anywhere else?
Is the battle still going on?

Paying respect? What's the reason for the guards at Tomb of The Unknown Soldier? What's the reason for the president to place a wreath on it? The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is not unique to the U.S. so all those nations who pay respect to it are looneys? The Unknown Soldier has no nationality, he is the Unknown Soldier. How is it different from the known soldier whose statue you want to remove?

 

[Pogo]

But what is the point of... going there? That is, taking one's physical presence to that geographic location?

Is it not the same event with the same significance, whether one goes there or not?
Is there anything going on there right now that you can't see anywhere else?
Is the battle still going on?

Paying respect? What's the reason for the guards at Tomb of The Unknown Soldier? What's the reason for the president to place a wreath on it? The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is not unique to the U.S. so all those nations who pay respect to it are looneys? The Unknown Soldier has no nationality, he is the Unknown Soldier. How is it different from the known soldier whose statue you want to remove?

And you're incapable of "paying respect" --- to dead people who aren't there ---- unless you're physically in the place huh?

You must have one fuck of a travel budget.

Didn't address the central question anyway, which is --- what do you get there that you can't get not-there? What's the point of walking around a place that was a battlefield 150 years ago? Is it going to come to life just because you show up?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Absolute unmitigated Boshoi. The Civil War still echoes in the present. Dramatically. It will never be forgotten, not in any of our lifetimes. And that's equally true whether monuments exist or not.

Again --- monuments are not history books. Nor should they be.

Then it appears we can defund tax dollars for the arts at all levels of government since there's no point in paying someone to create a thing to be destroyed by the emotional societal swings of future generations.

*****SMILE*****

So unless all art ever created is eternal and never changes....there's no point in art existing?

Holy shit, dude. Pout much?

Who says it won't exist?????

I'm sure private fund raisers and charities will provide a plentiful environment for the arts without government support for future generations of emotional societal drama to enact destruction upon.

Overdramatize much?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Or, we don't through a little temper tantrum and nix all public art forever....because a piece you like is being taken down.

Life is change. Take a breath and learn to think a little more laterally.

That's not who most conservatives are, particularly the right's hostility to change.

 

[defcon4]

And you're incapable of "paying respect" --- to dead people who aren't there ---- unless you're physically in the place huh?

You must have one fuck of a travel budget.

Didn't address the central question anyway, which is --- what do you get there that you can't get not-there? What's the point of walking around a place that was a battlefield 150 years ago? Is it going to come to life just because you show up?

You are a very empty dead man walking with no emotions, nothing. But that is your business, however, you should not make every effort to deny the opportunity for other people who do feel differently from you.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Erasing History"

Actually the thread premise is erasing logic and reason – failing as a multitude of ridiculous fallacies.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

"Erasing History"

Actually the thread premise is erasing logic and reason – failing as a multitude of ridiculous fallacies.

How many times are you going to post that garbage? You've worn it out and all you do is scamper off when confronted

 

[defcon4]

"Erasing History"

Actually the thread premise is erasing logic and reason – failing as a multitude of ridiculous fallacies.

This fails as a composition fallacy

 

[80zephyr]

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
George Orwell

 

[Pogo]

And you're incapable of "paying respect" --- to dead people who aren't there ---- unless you're physically in the place huh?

You must have one fuck of a travel budget.

Didn't address the central question anyway, which is --- what do you get there that you can't get not-there? What's the point of walking around a place that was a battlefield 150 years ago? Is it going to come to life just because you show up?

You are a very empty dead man walking with no emotions, nothing. But that is your business, however, you should not make every effort to deny the opportunity for other people who do feel differently from you.

Link to where I advocated any such "denial" is --- where then?

Link?
Quote?
Post number?
Statue?
Monument?
Plaque?
Inscription carved into a mountain?

Anything?


Read much?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Absolute unmitigated Boshoi. The Civil War still echoes in the present. Dramatically. It will never be forgotten, not in any of our lifetimes. And that's equally true whether monuments exist or not.

Again --- monuments are not history books. Nor should they be.

Then it appears we can defund tax dollars for the arts at all levels of government since there's no point in paying someone to create a thing to be destroyed by the emotional societal swings of future generations.

*****SMILE*****

So unless all art ever created is eternal and never changes....there's no point in art existing?

Holy shit, dude. Pout much?

Who says it won't exist?????

I'm sure private fund raisers and charities will provide a plentiful environment for the arts without government support for future generations of emotional societal drama to enact destruction upon.

Overdramatize much?

*****CHUCKLE*****

Or, we don't through a little temper tantrum and nix all public art forever....because a piece you like is being taken down.

Life is change. Take a breath and learn to think a little more laterally.

That's not who most conservatives are, particularly the right's hostility to change.

The only hostility to change I'm seeing, other than the childish demolishing of monuments and such by progressives, is the hostility to reform government spending on projects progressives in this thread say are useless and have no meaning.

If they're meaningless then there's no need to spend government funds on such things.

*****SMILE*****

 

[defcon4]

Link to where I advocated any such "denial" is --- where then?

Link?
Quote?
Post number?
Statue?
Monument?

Anything?


Read much?

The denial is embodied in your vehement support for removing historical statues and monuments. But you are not an idiot and knew what I was referring to. You are the highly educated anti-American ACADEMIA type. You are even funny when not pushing your anti-American agenda. However, you are a Marxist ideologue. That's where we differ. I am trying to preserve freedom and am defending the Constitution and you are trying to destroy those. Generally speaking.... so, don't ask for quotes and post numbers, we both know what I am talking about (of course that is if you are honest)

 

[Pogo]

Link to where I advocated any such "denial" is --- where then?

Link?
Quote?
Post number?
Statue?
Monument?

Anything?


Read much?

The denial is embodied in your vehement support for removing historical statues and monuments.

Once AGAIN --- LINK to where I made any value judgment whatsoever on removing or not-removing anything is --- where?

Or would we need your proctologist for such a link?

Once AGAIN -- read much?

so, don't ask for quotes and post numbers, we both know what I am talking about (of course that is if you are honest)

Exactly. "Don't ask" because they don't exist. And they don't exist because you pulled them out of your ass. And you have my express permission to cram them whence they came.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Humans have done this throughout history.

The Egyptians are notorious for taking chisels and hacking the name or likeness of a Pharoah that was out of favor when he died. One time a woman took the thrown and dressed as a man, but when she died they got busy erasing her from all the monuments she put up.

...and it is a great loss for archaeologists in reconstructing her era of reign, no? You just spoke against removing statues and monuments. Thank you.

You see the misery wherever you can don't you. Carry on.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Didn't address the central question anyway, which is --- what do you get there that you can't get not-there? What's the point of walking around a place that was a battlefield 150 years ago? Is it going to come to life just because you show up?

So that's a yes to defunding the arts and archeology at all levels of government.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Jackson]

Why do you think schools take kids to see the Battlefield of Gettysberg, why do think tourists go to the graveyard of soldiers who died on D-Day?

No idea. I can't for the life of me understand why anybody goes to Gettysburg. That action is over. Been over for a century and a half.

My schools never went there, and I grew up in PA. And if we had I don't know what the point would have been.
What IS the point? Ghost hunting?

Who goes to a sports stadium ---- after the game is already over?

Those who don't know about history is bound to repeat it.

Cannot agree more. Words to live by.

Not sure what that's got to do with going to a battlefield that hasn't been a battlefield for 150+ years though.

It will always be a battlefield and, therfore, hallowed ground. We owe it to the men that fought there to honor their sacrifice.

But what is the point of... going there? That is, taking one's physical presence to that geographic location?

Is it not the same event with the same significance, whether one goes there or not?
Is there anything going on there right now that you can't see anywhere else?
Is the battle still going on?

Yes, there are generally plaques and memorabilia to explain what when on that day in history. Our family used to go to old cemetaries just to see where the soldiers were buried,president's homes and battle grounds. Being there gives you the feeling of history coming alive. Excuse the pun! What about Mt. Rushmore? Nothing is going on, but it's a historical site you wouldn't want to miss.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Flag(s) of the Confederacy belong in Museums, they should never fly above halls or chambers which make laws or enforce them; those who make the laws and enforce the laws have each taken the oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And that is your Marxist, bullshit opinion, which you have every right to.

And we have every right to continue to take pride in the Confederate Battle flag and will no matter what ignoramuses like you say.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Flag(s) of the Confederacy belong in Museums, they should never fly above halls or chambers which make laws or enforce them; those who make the laws and enforce the laws have each taken the oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And that is your Marxist, bullshit opinion, which you have every right to.

And we have every right to continue to take pride in the Confederate Battle flag and will no matter what ignoramuses like you say.

My "Marxist opinion"? My "bullshit"? You must have paid a pretty penny for your brainwash.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Flag(s) of the Confederacy belong in Museums, they should never fly above halls or chambers which make laws or enforce them; those who make the laws and enforce the laws have each taken the oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And that is your Marxist, bullshit opinion, which you have every right to.

And we have every right to continue to take pride in the Confederate Battle flag and will no matter what ignoramuses like you say.

My "Marxist opinion"? My "bullshit"? You must have paid a pretty penny for your brainwash.

The entire world over has for a very long time recognized the heroic fight the South waged against the largest modern industrial nation of that time.

The South fought so hard for so long that, when the Union generals in charge finally received the surrender of that army, they openly wept.

But Marxist fuckheads like you cannot see past your racism and ideology to recognize and respect the men who led that effort. All you have is your idiot talking points that pump your few feeble gray cells to mindlessly repeat 'south = racism = bad'.

You are not only in the decisive minority, and ignorant beyond belief about that whole struggle, you wallow in your ignorance and have no concept how utterly stupid you look as you attack men who led much better lives of heroism and nobility than you will ever live as you hide from the responsibility of thinking for your own self.

Yeah, you are a social Marxist, whether your stupid mind can comprehend it or not, and your sad ideology will die and disgrace the ash heap of history like its cousin fascism has.

So go goose step and throw your fists up in the air while you still can, Nazi.