Zone1 Equality is downsizing religions, as parent refuse to downsize their love for an LGBTQ+ or female child.

[Blues Man]

Then why force someone to make it when they don't want to?

The law shouldn't force people to violate their right to free exercise without a compelling interest, and even then the situation has to be mitigated using the least instrusive means possible.

You just get off on forcing people to go against their morals as long as you disagree with their morals.

Why refuse to make it ? And once again if you are claiming some religious reason for denying service then prove it by producing the evidence that your god says baking a cake for or entering into any business transaction with a person who engages in sinful acts is itself a sin.

Yes we are all in one way or another forced to obey the law if you don't like it then go find a society to live in that has no laws

 

[EvilCat Breath]

And it's still not normal. Or Default, or whatever. Not being attracted to the opposite sex is a pretty big detriment towards being able to pass on your genes to the next generation.

It is not normal. It is a regularly occurring abnormality. There are a number of regularly occurring abnormalities. Birth defects. Dwarfism, schizophrenia.

 

[Blues Man]

It is not normal. It is a regularly occurring abnormality. There are a number of regularly occurring abnormalities. Birth defects. Dwarfism, schizophrenia.

Oxymoron.

If something has ALWAYS existed then by definition the existence of that thing is normal.

 

[GreatestIam]

The whole religious argument about morality is that it comes from a higher power. Or are you arguing that morality is subjective and therefore relative and not absolute?

I hate to contradict you, but these quotes indicate that man is to judge all things for himself.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Some good brain said that it would be stupid for God to give us good minds and then forbid our using them.

That is basically the Eden myth but ley's ignore that.

Regards
DL

 

[Blues Man]

I hate to contradict you, but these quotes indicate that man is to judge all things for himself.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Some good brain said that it would be stupid for God to give us good minds and then forbid our using them.

That is basically the Eden myth but ley's ignore that.

Regards
DL

So then one can be religious and still believe murder is OK? All morals are relative right?

You are arguing that there is no such thing as sin because anyone can make up his own list of sins.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Oxymoron.

If something has ALWAYS existed then by definition the existence of that thing is normal.

Nonsense. The desire to sexually abuse children has ALWAYS existed. It is definitely not normal.

 

[Blues Man]

Nonsense. The desire to sexually abuse children has ALWAYS existed. It is definitely not normal.

Have there always been people who would sexually abuse children?

What we call abuse today was not abuse a few centuries ago. You are referring to a societal attitude which has changed over time not the existence of the thing itself

 

[GreatestIam]

So then one can be religious and still believe murder is OK? All morals are relative right?

You are arguing that there is no such thing as sin because anyone can make up his own list of sins.

I am not sure where you get the idea that I would think killing or murdering to be ok.

Murder and it's morality is indeed subjective.

Most are evil, but I can imagine where I see it justified.

If I murder someone trying to get information on a dirty nuke from a terrorist --- before the act of his murdering many, --- would you punish me for my efforts or give me a thumbs up for saving many lives by taking the one life?

Regards
DL

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So then one can be religious and still believe murder is OK? All morals are relative right?

You are arguing that there is no such thing as sin because anyone can make up his own list of sins.

Anyone can make up their own list of sins AND APPLY THAT LIST TO THEMSELVES. Of course murderers do not see themselves as either sinful, nor unlawful. To very many murderers God made them that way. Sound familiar?

 

[GreatestIam]

You are arguing that there is no such thing as sin because anyone can make up his own list of sins.

Here too I think you read me wrong.

Quote what makes you think this.

Regards
DL

 

[Blues Man]

I am not sure where you get the idea that I would think killing or murdering to be ok.

Murder and it's morality is indeed subjective.

Most are evil, but I can imagine where I see it justified.

If I murder someone trying to get information on a dirty nuke from a terrorist --- before the act of his murdering many, --- would you punish me for my efforts or give me a thumbs up for saving many lives by taking the one life?

Regards
DL

There is a difference between killing and murder.

Killing in self defense is not by definition murder.

And I see a contradiction in your statements that man has a brain to use and therefore can decide what sin is and the statement that murder is always a sin

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Have there always been people who would sexually abuse children?

What we call abuse today was not abuse a few centuries ago. You are referring to a societal attitude which has changed over time not the existence of the thing itself

Shall we count you in the column that feels child abuse is acceptable by people "born that way?"

 

[GreatestIam]

Nonsense. The desire to sexually abuse children has ALWAYS existed. It is definitely not normal.

Everything that is, normal or otherwise, emanated from your God.

Why did he put those desires in us if he did not want us to exercise it?

Why just create LGBTQ+ women as something to hate and discriminate against?

Regards
DL

 

[Blues Man]

Anyone can make up their own list of sins AND APPLY THAT LIST TO THEMSELVES. Of course murderers do not see themselves as either sinful, nor unlawful. To very many murderers God made them that way. Sound familiar?

Actually most murderers know they are breaking the law.

And again by definition a sin is a violation of some divine law. A mere ,mortal who defines sin then is usurping a god's authority to create divine laws.

But you are arguing that there are no absolute sins, no absolute rights or wrongs and no absolute code of morals.

And I never said god made murderers that was you. but as such since you say your god made people who are murders you should accept that your god wanted murderers to be part of the human race.

 

[Blues Man]

Shall we count you in the column that feels child abuse is acceptable by people "born that way?"

Societal attitudes and the existence of something have nothing to do with each other.

A society could cultivate the attitude that the color red is an unacceptable color does that mean the color red is "abnormal" or that it doesn't exist?

 

[GreatestIam]

There is a difference between killing and murder.

Killing in self defense is not by definition murder.

And I see a contradiction in your statements that man has a brain to use and therefore can decide what sin is and the statement that murder is always a sin

I did not use nor needed to use the word, killing.

I ignore that deflection as I showed a clear pre-meditated murder that is likely justifiable.

If murder is never justifiable, then all the Gods are guilty.

Would you let one bomber live and not do all you could to save you from seeing the mushroom cloud over your city of many?

Regards
DL

 

[Blues Man]

I did not use nor needed to use the word, killing.

I ignore that deflection as I showed a clear pre-meditated murder that is likely justifiable.

If murder is never justifiable, then all the Gods are guilty.

Would you let one bomber live and not do all you could to save you from seeing the mushroom cloud over your city of many?

Regards
DL

Gods have never held themselves to the same laws they impose on mortals.

and again by definition not all killing is murder

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Actually most murderers know they are breaking the law.

And again by definition a sin is a violation of some divine law. A mere ,mortal who defines sin then is usurping a god's authority to create divine laws.

But you are arguing that there are no absolute sins, no absolute rights or wrongs and no absolute code of morals.

And I never said god made murderers that was you. but as such since you say your god made people who are murders you should accept that your god wanted murderers to be part of the human race.

That is exactly the way murderers feel. They were born that way. Therefore should be punished no more than a homosexual, also born that way.

Of course there are absolute sins and absolute morals. Everyone is invited to apply that absolutism to their own lives.

 

[Blues Man]

That is exactly the way murderers feel. They were born that way. Therefore should be punished no more than a homosexual, also born that way.

Of course there are absolute sins and absolute morals. Everyone is invited to apply that absolutism to their own lives.

Again most murders know they are breaking the law even if they feel a compulsion to kill.

The laws and societal acceptances of behaviors have nothing to do with the very existence of those behaviors.

Can you tell me what part of that you don't understand so I can try to explain it better?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Gods have never held themselves to the same laws they impose on mortals.

and again by definition not all killing is murder

Murder is a statute. It is unlawful. Juries will sit in judgment. They are not judging sin but unlawful conduct.