Zone1 Embryos and Personhood

[Kruska]

I am not a Christian.

I couldn't care less - since I do not judge an individual persons overall character upon his personal religious belief. (unless he starts e.g. to promote Adam&Eve to me).

I am a rational theist who sees absolutely no doom to western civilization caused by a million women a year in my country ending pregnancies when it was not their inten to become pregnant.

Pro-abortionists share the same overall mindset of those people who place "personal freedom" above a common responsibility towards a country, it's people and distinctive culture. Aka - they propagate and promote the ideal of "personal irresponsibility" and thus demanding limitless freedom, for their own personal actions and selfish believes.

Why have speed-limits - right? shouldn't anyone be "free" to drive as he wants?? totally drunk too, if he regards it as his "personal freedom".
Oh yeah right - speed-limits are solely to protect the environment. Why are environmental issues sooo important for Lefty/Libs?? becasue it is the only thing they believe to be necessary, in order for them to thrive within an own society that doesn't care about taking responsibility.

BTW, did the "good people" of Ohio grant their government to introduce speed limits???

In other words - hump around without thinking/bothering about taking responsibility - and if an embryo and fetus results out of it - simply get rid of it. After-all it might endanger that holiday trip to an Ashram in India, that second family car or that new flat-screen TV.

 

[Kruska]

How can the will of the majority protect the unborn when the majority votes to protect the freedom of women first as Ohioans did in Ohio.

See POST #NFBW 240493 Veapyz00439

The "right towards abortion" in Ohio, does it allow for any abortion regardless of a time-frame in view of an embryo/fetus??
As I had stated before - France implemented the "right for abortion" into it's constitution - however it did NOT cancel/revoke the 14 week regulation.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Why have speed-limits - right?

Public health and safety for the transmission of commerce

 

[Curried Goats]

If you are trying to argue personhood, you'll lose. If you are trying to argue citizenship, you'll just look like a fool if you think that makes it ok to kill them.

If you're trying to argue personhood you lose because people don't have a right to touch or force themselves on other people. It's why you haven't been able to respond to me since I pointed it out to you.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The "right towards abortion" in Ohio, does it allow for any abortion regardless of a time-frame in view of an embryo/fetus??

The timeframe voted into the Constitution of Ohio is 24 weeks which is the original limit set in Roe v Wade based on fetal viability if separated from its mother.

Florida will have a near identical ballot initiative on their ballots in November and I expect it will pass because the Republican Catholic white Evangelical Party’s Six Week ban goes into effect shortly and that pisses a lot of Americans off nationwide.

If the Democrats win Florida Biden wins Florida the Republican Party will be pronounced dead. Vladimir Putin will suffer a mental break down if that happens to him.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Pro-abortionists share the same overall mindset of those people who place "personal freedom" above a common responsibility towards a country, it's people and distinctive culture. Aka - they propagate and promote the ideal of "personal irresponsibility" and thus demanding limitless freedom, for their own personal actions and selfish believes.

Tes we have freedom from religion in the United States.

Why would we give it up to an atheist who has nothing better to do than bitch about unintentional pregnancy being aborted because a self delusional opinion has led him to believe civilization is doomed because a private act induces miscarriage through personal intent.


Christianity and our founding fathers 240321 {post•472} NotfooledbyW Mar’24 Vcaoff inserted these words from Austin Cline: “The most important thing to remember is that freedom of religion, if it is going to apply to everyone, also requires freedom from religion. Why is that? You do not truly have the freedom to practice your religious beliefs if you are also required to adhere to any of the religious beliefs or rules of other religions.” nfbw 240321 Vcaoff00472

 

[PeterPilot]

You obviously don't even know, as to what constitutes a MURDER, in regards to existing LAW and judicial procedures.

Do you mean to say that if the state kills an innocent person it's not murder, but if a citizen kills another it IS murder?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Embryos and Personhood 240403 {post•401}

cnm Apr’24 Veapyz inserted the following link: …..

When Does a Human Life Begin? 17 Timepoints - DNA Science

…... cnmz 240403 Veapyz00401


Embryos and Personhood 240405 {post•448}
The answer to the question by the writer as to when a human life begin is;

14. Week 21. A fetus has a (very slim) chance of becoming a premature baby if delivered.​

​

Ricki Lewis, PhD further explains;

My answer? #14. The ability to survive outside the body of another sets a practical, technological limit on defining when a sustainable human life begins. That limit may of course change.​

​

Having a functional genome, tissue layers, a notochord, a beating heart … none of these matter if the organism cannot survive where humans survive. Technology has taken us to the ends of the prenatal spectrum, yet not provided too much for the middle, other than fetal surgeries for a handful of conditions. We can collect and select gametes, now thanks to patent no. 8543339. We collect and select very early embryos in pre-implantation genetic diagnosis, allowing those without a specific disease to continue development. And although the gestational age at which a premature infant can survive has crept younger, it hasn’t by much, not since I starting thinking about these things back when I was a stage #16.​

​

Until an artificial uterus becomes a reality, technology defines, for me, when a human life begins.​

​

We had fifty years where the ability to survive outside the body of another (22 weeks) was the point where restrictions on abortions could be applied by states.​

​

That worked fine until the Republican Party ended it because they wanted to ban it at conception.​

​

Now Republicans want to ban it at 15 weeks. Every women who wants to terminate her pregnancy will nit be stopped by a fifteen week ban so what was the point and celebration by Republicans over DOBBS?​

 

[Kruska]

Do you mean to say that if the state kills an innocent person it's not murder, but if a citizen kills another it IS murder?

If the state sentences someone to death - but being innocent, then that would be murder - how daft are you?

It is your generalization of people being sentenced to death, being innocent of the charge - and that is plain wrong.

 

[Kruska]

Public health and safety for the transmission of commerce

Why do you desperately avoid stating? - the killing of road users due to reckless and irresponsible driving.!!

And again - someone who states "unintentional pregnancy" and thus demanding/argumentation for a free pass onto an abortion (killing a fetus - LIFE) after week 8-12, is simply a dumb, egoistic, total irresponsible person and a murderer.

Nothing more to be added to this topic from my side.

 

[Libby von H]

The recent ruling by an Alabama judge has ignited a firestorm in both sides of the reproductive rights community: frozen embryos have full legal personhood rights. This has split Republican lawmakers who are, on the one hand applauding the decision while simultaneously scrambling to enact legislation to carve out a niche for IVF by redefining when an embryo is considered a person.

Florida proposed an amendment to a legislative bill being considered:​

Republican lawmakers in Florida had proposed an amendment to the bill, the same week as the Alabama ruling, to define “unborn child” as a human “at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.” The change would likely protect IVF patients and doctors, but it remains uncertain whether it would be in any final version the full Legislature were to vote on.​

That raises questions too.

The issue of abortion is one of competing rights: weighing a woman’s right to bodily autonomy against a fetus’ right to life. But with frozen embryos, there are no competing rights.

So what exactly does this mean?

• With abortion does ”full personhood” mean that unless a woman is at death’s door, she cannot act to save her life?
• Does it mean every miscarriage is a potential crime scene?
• Will embryos be claimed as dependents on taxes? Will they get child support?
• Will they even be US citizens? Isn’t birth/born a stipulation there?

With frozen embryos it is even more tricky:

• How can an embryo, implanted in a uterus be given “personhood” rights while an identical embryo, that is frozen, not be?
• Will fathers of frozen embryos be liable for child support for each one?
• If they must remain stored into perpetuity…who pays?
• Can you claim them as dependents?
• If something happens that accidently destroys hundreds of stored embryos…should the person responsible face hundreds of counts of homicide charges?

How can you ethically have a “carve out” for IVF embryos but not implanted embryos?

Note: I put this in CDZ to hopefully have a real discussion as this latest ruling moves the debate beyond abortion.

 

[Libby von H]

I won't answer all that but it seems you take issue with everything except the motivating cause of all this ,which was Feds stepping in against the 14th Amendment ,to take away rights of the baby

Abortion was CHILD MURDER

"When the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted in 1868, the states widely recognized unborn children as persons. Twenty-three states and six territories referred to the fetus as a “child” in their laws prohibiting abortion. Twenty-eight classified abortion as an “offense against the person,” or a functionally equivalent classification. These statutes were enacted in recognition of unborn human beings’ full and equal membership in the human family. In Ohio, the same legislature that ratified the Fourteenth Amendment in January 1867 passed legislation criminalizing abortion at all stages just three months later. Several senators who voted for the Fourteenth Amendment’s ratification sat on the committee that reviewed the anti-abortion bill. They acknowledged in their report that “physicians have now arrived at the unanimous opinion that the foetus in utero is alive from the very moment of conception,” and declared on that basis that abortion “at any stage of existence” is “child-murder.”"

How to Overturn Roe | Josh Craddock

Does the Constitution really only protect “walking-around persons”?

www.firstthings.com

 

[PeterPilot]

If the state sentences someone to death - but being innocent, then that would be murder - how daft are you?

It is your generalization of people being sentenced to death, being innocent of the charge - and that is plain wrong.

Innocence Project

We work to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, and create fair, compassionate, and equitable systems of justice for everyone.

innocenceproject.org

This organization has been around for years now. Maybe 10 years ago the number of convicted men on death row who were shown to be innocent by way of DNA evidence was around 300.

300 persons awaiting execution by the state were shown to be innocent of the crime charge.

Who is right and who is wrong Kruska?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You're free to murder all the unborn you want, if that's what the mother chooses to do, so long as you're funding that elective surgery yourself with your own money.

So start a charity or go-fund-me but leave the American taxpayer out of it.

Murder is a crime, abortion is a medical procedure.

I understand you don't want to pay for it, but you have no right to interfere.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Why do you desperately avoid stating? - the killing of road users due to reckless and irresponsible driving.!!

And again - someone who states "unintentional pregnancy" and thus demanding/argumentation for a free pass onto an abortion (killing a fetus - LIFE) after week 8-12, is simply a dumb, egoistic, total irresponsible person and a murderer.

Nothing more to be added to this topic from my side.

No, it is not. A fetus is not a person.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Innocence Project

We work to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, and create fair, compassionate, and equitable systems of justice for everyone.

innocenceproject.org

This organization has been around for years now. Maybe 10 years ago the number of convicted men on death row who were shown to be innocent by way of DNA evidence was around 300.

300 persons awaiting execution by the state were shown to be innocent of the crime charge.

Who is right and who is wrong Kruska?

Has the child being aborted committed a crime?

SMILE

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Murder is a crime, abortion is a medical procedure.

I understand you don't want to pay for it, but you have no right to interfere.

If you're going to fund it with my tax dollars I have right to have a say about it.

Oh that's right! People like you want to do away with the 1st Amendment.

You should watch what you wish for that might have unpleasant consequences.

SMILE

 

[Damaged Eagle]

No, it is not. A fetus is not a person.

So it's nothing more than a tumor to people like you and the pro-choice crowd.

SMILE

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

So it's nothing more than a tumor to people like you and the pro-choice crowd.

Oh, no, not at all. You are wrong about that, too,

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

If you're going to fund it with my tax dollars I have right to have a say about it.

Oh that's right! People like you want to do away with the 1st Amendment.

You should watch what you wish for that might have unpleasant consequences.

You have right to talk about dollars, not about the procedure.

You want to do away with the 1A. Why?

Your threat is harmless, without meaning.