Zone1 Embryos and Personhood

[ding]

Whenever a woman terminates her own pregnancy as safely as possible there are two fully developed persons involved: herself and her doctor.

And the life that is being ended.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And then after the unique living human organism inside her body is dead

And life that is being ended.

I acknowledge that in nfbw 240403 Veapyz00420. . Like I said, you have no idea what to say to my argument.

 

[ding]

I acknowledge that. Like I said, you have no idea what to say to my argument.

No, you don't You pay lip service to it. It's just property to you.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And then after the unique living human organism inside her body is dead

And life that is being ended.

I acknowledge that in nfbw 240403 Veapyz00420.

You pay lip service to it.

There is a key point to my argument in my POST Veapyz00420 where I said “after abortion the unique living human organism inside her body is dead” is that a fact Saint Ding? Is that part of a bigger point I am making?

 

[ding]

I acknowledge that in nfbw 240403 Veapyz00420.




There is a key point to my argument in my POST Veapyz00420 where I said “after abortion the unique living human organism inside her body is dead” is that a fact Saint Ding that is part of a bugger point I am making?

No, you didn't. To you life in the womb is nothing more than property. No right to life whatsoever. Might as well make lampshades out of it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

NotfooledbyW said:
I acknowledge that in nfbw 240403 Veapyz00420.

There is a key point to my argument in my POST Veapyz00420 where I said “after abortion the unique living human organism inside her body is dead” is that a fact Saint Ding that is part of a bugger point I am making?
Your

To you life in the womb is nothing more than property.

You are a liar Saint Ding. I do not regard a fetus as property. See my POST nfbw 240402 Veap00385

A fetus has a right to life through the right to life of it’s mother.

 

[ding]

NotfooledbyW said:
I acknowledge that in nfbw 240403 Veapyz00420.

There is a key point to my argument in my POST Veapyz00420 where I said “after abortion the unique living human organism inside her body is dead” is that a fact Saint Ding that is part of a bugger point I am making?
Your


You are a liar Saint Ding. I do not regard a fetus as property. See my POST nfbw 240402 Veap00385

If there is nothing inherently wrong with abortion then they could harvest fetuses for commercial purposes. They're just property. Think of it like a salmon farm, except for aborted human lives.

 

[ding]

The possibilities are endless.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

No, you didn't. To you life in the womb is nothing more than property. No right to life whatsoever. Might as well make lampshades out of it.

You are a liar Saint Ding. I do not regard a fetus as property. See my POST nfbw 240402 Veap00385

If there is nothing inherently wrong with abortion then they could harvest fetuses for commercial purposes. Think of it like a salmon farm.

Another lie from you Saint Ding. I do not argue there is nothing inherently wrong with abortion for convenience. I do argue there is absolutely nothing wrong with abortion to save the life of the mother or after rape or incest or for any reason due to a catastrophic health condition during pregnancy.

Are you going to counter my argument Saint Ding or are you just going to continue lying about what my argument is?

 

[Kruska]

One can talk about life beginning at any stage for that matter. For instance one can talk about life beginning in the fetal stage.

Both are somewhat irrelevant to a discussion of personhood.

Which one would have thought entailed citizenship and stuff like that.

When Does a Human Life Begin? 17 Timepoints - DNA Science

I rerun this most-read post about when human life begins every time that the discussion resurges, which is usually in the shadow…

dnascience.plos.org

That is IMO besides the point, since it isn't about "person-hood" but simply LIFE as such.

AFAIK, any Western country that has abortions laws - restricts/forbids an abortion once the fetus reaches the 8th to 12th week.
(e.g. France has extended this in Feb. 2024 to week 14) And the international scientific community being in agreement - that LIFE kicks in from week 8 to week 12.

The government has the responsibility to protect LIFE - as such any "forceful" ending of a life (which includes an unborn LIFE) is considered by law to be - Murder.

France now has embedded the "right for abortion" in it's constitution - but it has not cancelled the 14 week limit.
Germany is thinking about following the French principle - since an abortion in Germany (before week 12) is only legal upon having documented an Abortion Consultation. The latter would become irrelevant/unnecessary upon making it a Constitutional Right.

This however does not change the existing law in regards to an abortion being legal, only up to week 12.

It is the obvious change of morals that has been occurring in Western countries since the 60'ies - that has hugely impacted Western society and has IMO lead to a disastrous "personal irresponsibility" in regards to our "dear" politicians and as such onto the entire society itself.

Since all these "fake" Western democracies do NOT represent the factual populations will and wishes - but only manipulated/corrupted partisan interests - any LAW incl. an Abortion Law, could and should be challenged via a plebiscite.

If via a plebiscite - Abortion is generally allowed for (even excluding an 8-12 week limit) then the population majority has decided to want/demand just that. And both the government and the minority objecting that, has to accept it - aka respecting and living a "true" DEMOCRACY.

However I personally object a government implemented ruling (law) - that comes about due to partisan interests - where e.g. a MINORITY such as Lefty/Libs, enforces their personal "lifestyle preference" onto a government coalition - via e.g. threatening to dissolve that coalition government. And this has been happening in ALL Western "democratic" countries since latest the 70'ies.

That a political radical MINORITY has imposed their personal lifestyle views - onto the general population. And to close the circle - has led to "enforcing laws" via a manipulated government, and as such having created politicians and a society that simply rejects - taking personal responsibility towards their actions.

See e.g. Trump - a clear product and profiteer of this "irresponsibility mentality", openly attacked by Lefty/Libs, who themselves profit just as well, from this "freedom to reject/avert personal responsibility".

Unless a general plebiscite is implemented by Western countries - we Westerners, our sickening government policies, our culture and society are clearly doomed.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

If there is nothing inherently wrong with abortion then they could harvest fetuses for commercial purposes. Think of it like a salmon farm.

The possibilities are endless.

I have made no argument for harvesting fetuses for commercial purposes or whatever QAnon MAGA influence has put in your mind.

Here is my argument:

{1} biologically speaking life begins at conception

{2} public interest in protecting human life begins at birth

{3} A fetus has a right to life through the right to life of it’s mother.

{4} a potential birthmother has the right to end fetal life in her body because her right to life is established and she is the only person involved who can decide to assume the risk of giving birth.

{5} white Christian nationalist politicians cannot assume the risk for any woman being forced into full term gestation against their will.


Too many clear, Saint Ding I will add to Item 4 it should be made unlawful for a woman who ends the fetal life in her body to receive payment from Saint Ding’s lampshade factory or any other commercial interest in her dead fetus.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

doomed

Maybe Jesus will come soon and take you away from this horrible life.

 

[Kruska]

Maybe Jesus will come soon and take you away from this horrible life.

Unlike you, (bringing in your Jesus) I am an atheist.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The government has the responsibility to protect LIFE - as such any "forceful" ending of a life (which includes an unborn LIFE) is considered by law to be - Murder.

As an atheist on what authority do you want my government to protect unborn life from the person who must assume the risk of delivering an unplanned fetus to the world of born human beings,

 

[Kruska]

As an atheist on what authority do you want my government to protect unborn life from the person who must assume the risk of delivering an unplanned fetus to the world of born human beings,

The authority granted by the people onto their ELECTED government, that is sworn to protect them and LIFE.
And the latter has introduced/implemented a law to protect unborn LIFE.

How long do you intend to continue running around in your own circles?

 

[Sparker]

More silly BS that will disappear forever when electricity becomes too expensive to keep embryos frozen. The upper class that can afford that stuff will have bigger worries, like becoming poor.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Unlike you, (bringing in your Jesus) I am an atheist.

I am not a Christian. I am a rational theist who sees absolutely no doom to western civilization caused by a million women a year in my country ending pregnancies when it was not their inten to become pregnant.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I didn’t say it is a tumor. Next strawman?

Ah! So it is a human baby that has the right to exist.

It should be covered the same as any other reproductive medical procedure.

Well then we don't need planned parenthood or abortion clinics you should be able to just go to the hospital and discuss it with your doctor.

SMILE

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The authority granted by the people onto their ELECTED government, that is sworn to protect them and LIFE.

Authority was not granted by the good people of Ohio to allow the state government to force full term gestation on women against their will.

Issue 1 is a ballot measure that, if approved, would change the Ohio Constitution to include protections for abortion access. According to ballot language, the measure would establish in the state constitution "an individual right to one's own reproductive medical treatment," including to make decisions on abortion, contraception, fertility treatment, continuing one's own pregnancy and miscarriage care.


If approved, the amendment, titled "The Right to Reproductive Freedom with Protections for Health and Safety," would protect any person or entity that helps a patient receive reproductive medical treatment and prohibit Ohio from "directly or indirectly burdening, penalizing or prohibiting abortion" before viability, generally considered to be between 22 and 24 weeks of pregnancy.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The authority granted by the people onto their ELECTED government, that is sworn to protect them and LIFE.

How can the will of the majority protect the unborn when the majority votes to protect the freedom of women first as Ohioans did in Ohio.

See POST #NFBW 240493 Veapyz00439