Economically I'm ultra far left

[Lisa558]

True, I guess we will see how many will fall for it.

BTW, many of those that pay income taxes will be in for a rude awakening when they file next year when they realize it wasn’t free, it was just an advance on the credit. Those that don’t pay income taxes at all are out buying new iPhones and living it up and will vote for anyone that promises more freebees. It is a sure sign of the end of our country as we know it.

And that was predicted by one of our FF - Jefferson, I think, or perhaps Franklin - who said, paraphrasing here, that when the people start voting themselves money from the Treasury, that will herald the end of the Republic.

We are dangerously at the precipice. The country is evenly divided between takers and makers, and the Dems are desperately trying to turn more of the makers into net takers.

The Dems, driven by Marxists behind them, are attacking America from various angles. Another is bringing in more government-dependent “migrants” who will immediately get benefits for their children.

 

[DBA]

And that was predicted by one of our FF - Jefferson, I think, or perhaps Franklin - who said, paraphrasing here, that when the people start voting themselves money from the Treasury, that will herald the end of the Republic.

We are dangerously at the precipice. The country is evenly divided between takers and makers, and the Dems are desperately trying to turn more of the makers into net takers.

The Dems, driven by Marxists behind them, are attacking America from various angles. Another is bringing in more government-dependent “migrants” who will immediately get benefits for their children.

Yep, you are exactly correct. Why can’t Democrat who are actually working and paying taxes see where this is headed? It is mind boggling that they can be so naive.

 

[Lisa558]

No, McDonald’s should pay what the labor market bears. If you own your own grass cutting business and decide that you want to make a “living wage” do you think you can just raise your prices to cover your labor at will? No, the reality is you would need to find more customers or otherwise cut expenses.

Every job is not meant to provide a living wage. It is up to the employee to educate themselves, learn a skill, work more hours, etc. if they want to make more money than a company is willing to pay. The problem is that people want to clock in, flip a few burgers and get paid enough to have their own home with multiple children. Better yet, they would rather stay home and do the same, which is EXACTLY the mentality the Democrats are fostering.

So true. These leftists who say “well, pay more!” Never owned a business. They also don’t appreciate that a business owner is paying people a wide range of salaries, depending on the role they play, and that raising the minimum on the lowest (unskilled) earner forces the owner to raise all salaries across the board in order to maintain pay equity.

 

[Lisa558]

Yep, you are exactly correct. Why can’t Democrat who are actually working and paying taxes see where this is headed? It is mind boggling that they can be so naive.

A lot of things are mind-boggling about Democrats. Plus, they are downright obnoxious to people who disagree with their politics.

 

[JoeB131]

As our conversation started out. . . the reason the cost of education shot up, is because of the government guaranteed student loans. This had to do with the stake holders in Universities and their lobbying of pols. in D.C.

No, the reason why it went up because demand went up, and because state universities stopped getting state funding.

If you are an employer, or a professional organization, what are you going to require? A certification, or none? If you are a worker, or a prospective employee? It matters not if you have the requisite KSA's, if you don't have that piece of paper. This is called economic in-elasticity.

Well, I agree, that is part of the problem. When you have resumes read by machines, and the machine keys in on education, then having that education becomes required.

The government, in coordinated activity with industry, has caused the cost of education to skyrocket. As your own post attested, "by making these kids put themselves in hock, or making them compete for bullshit scholarships, or they can always do what I did and let the military abuse their bodies and minds for a couple of years." All of these methods are ways the government forced kids to get those certs. for professional industry, which has been caused by the establishment.

Ah, this is where you get into crazy town. Government gives us what we want, so government is bad. Got it. Now, here's the thing. Nobody forced me to join the Army. That was my choice. In fact, I seriously considered a career in service and even attempted to get a commission. (Long story, don't want to get into it here.)

This isn't what caused prices to rise. What caused prices to rise was removal of government subsidies directly to universities and an increased demand. In short, a college degree became a commodity, and the industry adapted to sell that commodity.

So just like Ford sells both Shelby's and Focuses... Both will get you to work, but only one looks really cool.
Conversely, you can go to Harvard or you can go to UIC.

Or you could by a YUgo and get a degree from the University of Phoenix.

It has been proven, that after a person reaches the level of eighth grade, most intelligent people can self educate, if they are motivated to do so. Education, is the most corrupt profession on the planet. Even Socrates condemned those who would get paid for educating minds, because learning, TRUE learning is a personal and self motivated endeavor.

Did Socrates even exist, or was he a literary device created by Plato? I agree, we can make a lot of criticism of academia. I can't tell you how many times I sat in a classroom and thought this guy is soooo full of shit. I had one professor who claimed that the phrase "Bread and Circuses" started with HItler, when in fact, it came from the Romans. I explained it to him. A couple of years later, same guy made the same statement in a more advanced class.

But the point is, no one is going to hire a GED student and say, "Well, he's really smart". Sorry, academic achievement may not be the best indicator of intelligence, but it's a quantifiable one.

Did you know that Abraham Lincoln never advanced in school much past Junior High? He self educated and took the BARR himself. So, what are we to make of that? The folks that designed the operating of all of our computer operating systems were all college drop outs.

I don't really make a lot of it, since back in those days, Colleges were for the very elite... Should also point out, Lincoln wasn't a very good lawyer, which is why he went into politics.

And do you think Apple or Microsoft is going to give a job to a College Dropout? Not likely.

I can't really have a discussion with you, because you have a world view, and mindset, which make you refuse to acknowledge reality. But, the reality is, yes, due to economics, once the government entered the world of both education and healthcare, those costs rose precipitously.

Um, yeah, and they made them more accessible I mean, we could go back to the good old days, when most people couldn't read and died at 55. The problem is, you whine about bad old government all day, but you wouldn't want to live in a world without it.

The only reason YOU remain ignorant? Is because part of your personality and the cherished values you hold, demands it of you. You do not realize, that in large part, the truth supports your values. You and I? We really are, not so different. You only have it in your mind that we are. I only have a better understanding of what is going on, and how things actually work.

The major difference, you are a crazy person... that's the major difference.

 

[JoeB131]

eah, I just noticed that. Using a phone to respond is not ideal.

I agree that both sides spend too much money, I just fail to see why anyone that is not ultra-wealthy or very poor would vote for a Democrat. It makes no economic sense to me.

Well, frankly, I can't see why anyone who isn't ultra wealthy votes for Republicans...

I'm not poor or ultra-wealthy. I'm firmly middle class, college educated.

And while I did vote for the GOP when I was younger, here's why I don't vote for them now.

1) I don't want a bunch of religious nuts telling me what kind of sex I can have.
2) I don't want to go to work and have it be okay for my employer to cheat me, expose me to dangerous substances, etc.
3) I actually like breathing clean air and drinking clean water.
4) I don't want my crazy neighbor to stockpile a shitload of weapons because he thinks the government is out to get him.
5) Yes, I really like the idea that if I am lucky enough to live long enough to retire, they won't have turned over all my retirement savings to rich people.

To me, the second scariest thing in recent years after Dumb-ass White trash voting for Trump was Dumb-ass young kids voting for Bernie... But given what a shit sandwich capitalism has turned out to be for most of the working class, I can't blame them for wanting to get off the ride.

 

[JoeB131]

So true. These leftists who say “well, pay more!” Never owned a business. They also don’t appreciate that a business owner is paying people a wide range of salaries, depending on the role they play, and that raising the minimum on the lowest (unskilled) earner forces the owner to raise all salaries across the board in order to maintain pay equity.

If you can't pay your people a fair wage, you shouldn't be in business. Period. Full stop.

Someone else can step in, fill that consumer demand and pay a fair wage.

 

[DBA]

If you can't pay your people a fair wage, you shouldn't be in business. Period. Full stop.

Someone else can step in, fill that consumer demand and pay a fair wage.

Fair based on what? Are you saying that a business should base their wages on the cost of rent and food in the area? What about the cost of movie or football tickets? What if the employee has a few kids, they need more money to live on in that case so should they be paid more. You clearly haven’t though this through.

 

[DBA]

5) Yes, I really like the idea that if I am lucky enough to live long enough to retire, they won't have turned over all my retirement savings to rich people.

Lots of crap in this post but you are very confused about retirement. It is most certainly NOT Republicans that want to take away any savings you may have made. Democrats would love nothing more than to take any money outside of SS that you saved and give it to those folks who have either spent all their money or never made it to begin with because they decided to stay home and live on the government dole. If things keep going the way they are, you can bet your last dollar that your retirement will be in danger and you can thank Democrats.

To me, the second scariest thing in recent years after Dumb-ass White trash voting for Trump

Yeah, us “dumb-ass white trash folks” are the problem. I mean, I pay considerably more in taxes than you make and I am one the “dumb” ones.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Here's the gag... Yes, you can get something cheaper in China... but you have deal with longer lead times, lower quality and transportation costs. Some products, that works just fine.

The reality is that we are in a global environment. You can still make a car in the US, but the components come from ten other countries.

The main reason why corporations move out of the US is that the guys in the corner offices are greedy and like to keep their boot to the neck of working folks. And you dumb shits keep going along with it.

You don't blame rich guys like Trump who make their products in China, you blame the poor Chinese Factory worker who is a lot worse off than you are.

View attachment 552880

Conservatism... it's a form of Stockholm syndrome.

When rich guys choose to make their products in other countries, I blame egregious and arbitrary mandates, regulations, wages and taxes that US firms must deal with that firms in China and India don’t have to.

 

[JoeB131]

Fair based on what? Are you saying that a business should base their wages on the cost of rent and food in the area? What about the cost of movie or football tickets? What if the employee has a few kids, they need more money to live on in that case so should they be paid more. You clearly haven’t though this through.

Sure I have... you just want to make excuses for the greed of the rich. I know, it's this bizarre Stockholm Syndrome the right has... you have come to identify with your abusers.

Lots of crap in this post but you are very confused about retirement. It is most certainly NOT Republicans that want to take away any savings you may have made. Democrats would love nothing more than to take any money outside of SS that you saved and give it to those folks who have either spent all their money or never made it to begin with because they decided to stay home and live on the government dole. If things keep going the way they are, you can bet your last dollar that your retirement will be in danger and you can thank Democrats.

Uh, yeah, again- REpublicans brought us the last five recessions... I'm more worried about you guys getting back into power before I retire and fucking up the economy again.

For those playing along at home, the cycle works like this.

1) Republicans fuck up the economy.
2) Democrats get elected, and Republicans whine they aren't fixing things fast enough
3) Democrats fix things, so republicans move on to some social issue to appeal to the racism, misogyny or homophobia of stupid white people.
4) When all else fails, get into office by cheating in elections.
5) Return to step 1.

Yeah, us “dumb-ass white trash folks” are the problem. I mean, I pay considerably more in taxes than you make and I am one the “dumb” ones.

I'm sure you have the shiniest double wide in the trailer park, Cleetus.... which state is that trailer park in again, because you never tell us.

 

[JoeB131]

When rich guys choose to make their products in other countries, I blame egregious and arbitrary mandates, regulations, wages and taxes that US firms must deal with that firms in China and India don’t have to.

I'm sure you do.

Then you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they shouldn't have dressed like sluts.

 

[DBA]

Sure I have... you just want to make excuses for the greed of the rich. I know, it's this bizarre Stockholm Syndrome the right has... you have come to identify with your abusers.

So no real answer, just more useless babble. No wonder you have been so mediocre in your career.

I'm sure you have the shiniest double wide in the trailer park, Cleetus.... which state is that trailer park in again, because you never tell us.

Like where I live matters. You act as though there is no money anywhere in the Southern states. You really should start perusing Zillow a bit. You may be very surprised to find out that many live in pure luxury particularly when compared to the standards in large urban(blue) areas.

 

[LeftofLeft]

I'm sure you do.

Then you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they shouldn't have dressed like sluts.

I'm sure you do.

Then you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they shouldn't have dressed like sluts.

Not one of your best refutes. The debate is on economics. You got schooled and had to retort with something not only lacking germane but offensive as well.

 

[JoeBlow]

Okay, let's look at that.

Poverty relief spending.

Food Stamps $85 Billion
Section 8 housing $68.7 Billion
TANF $30 Billion
WIC 4.9 Billion
Medicaid 359 Billion

So total of Poverty Relief programs- $548 billion.


Middle Class Entitlements

Social Security - 1.1 TRILLION
Medicare - $776 Billion
Unemployment spending - 794 billion in 2020 (although usually a lot less.)
Veterans Administration - 270 Billion

So total spending on middle class entitlements in 2020 was 3.488 TRILLION. Even taking out the fluke of 2020 and unemployment, we still spend six times as much keeping middle class white people from becoming poor than we do keeping poor people of color from outright starving.

The middle class pay into the system. Big difference.

 

[task0778]

I support working less hours and days a week but with bigger payment I support welfare for everyone even the ones who work but don't earn above a certain amount so they can afford more some work but can not make a end with their bills I support free free housing for homeless free healthcare and to do that I support taxing the rich I support minimum taxes for the poor and low income classes

Here's my questions to you: What if you don't get enough revenue to pay for all those policies you describe? Would you raise taxes on the middle class? Or would you cut down on the spending for your social welfare programs? Or would you borrow more money, thereby increasing the national debt? Or would you print more money or create it out of thin air like the Fed does? Do you believe the borrowing and/or printing can last forever? Do you believe at some point there has to be an end do it? Tell me what that end point is.

Maybe you want to take wealth from the rich that has already been taxed? It's been tried, but didn't work in other places. How long will it be before you run out of their wealth, what then? Do you intend to spend US tax dollars on climate change in other countries? What makes you think that however much money you spend on CC will actually make a difference? China and India are still building coal-fired plants, what're you gonna do about that? You do realize that for many of those so-called rich, their wealth is mostly tied up in their farm or ranch or business that they spent decades building up from scratch so they could pass it on to their kids. So somebody like you comes along with a wealth tax and as a result they have to sell their property to pay it. Are you okay with that? BTW, there's gonna be some job loss there as various enterprises have to go out of business.

You support working fewer hours but getting paid more money. Not every business, especially smaller ones can do that, they'd have to close. For those that stay in business there's only one way that works out: higher prices. Inflation is defined basically as more money chasing fewer goods and services. We're already seeing rising prices and inflation, how do you figure to slow that down and stop it? If your paycheck is bigger but your cost of living is even higher, that's not good is it? What makes you think that can't happen?

 

[OKTexas]

The century where someone thinks it's okay to pay people a substandard wage because exploiting teens is fun?

There is no exploitation when both parties agree to the terms of employment, your commie propaganda notwithstanding.

.

 

[OKTexas]

I'm sure you do.

Then you go down to the Rape Crisis Center and tell those women they shouldn't have dressed like sluts.

Leave it to commies like you to deflect to the absurd.

.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

No it does not. It makes them American Consumers. Go ahead and be a dick and mock folks.

Idiots are to be mocked...you are a fucking idiot.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

That's a big bold confession.

AHHH! I see what you did there!

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhh HA!

Fag.