Drug cartels buy 95% of their guns in the U.S.

[Chris]

PHOENIX (AP) — As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.

Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.

The rifle's presence in Mexico underscores two realities in the government's war against drug traffickers: Nearly all the guns the cartels use are smuggled into Mexico from the U.S., and officials say a small number of corrupt American weapons dealers are making the gun running possible.

"It's a war," said Bill Newell, special agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona and New Mexico. "It's a war between the drug cartels. And it's a war between the government and the drug cartels. And the weapons of war are the weapons that they are acquiring illegally here in the United States."

Authorities don't know how many firearms are sneaked across the border, but the ATF says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 the year before and about 2,100 in 2006. The increase is attributed both to a higher volume going south and a growing interest among Mexican authorities in running recovered weapons through a U.S. gun-tracing database.

Mexican and U.S. officials estimate the cartels get 95 percent of their guns from the United States; others are stolen when cartels overrun Mexican authorities. Cartels recruit "straw buyers" in the United States who make purchases on their behalf. Then people are paid to bring the weapons across the border.

The Associated Press: Cartels in Mexico's drug war get guns from US

 

[FistyTheBadger]

The implication you feel in the title is false.

 

[Luissa]

PHOENIX (AP) — As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.

Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.

The rifle's presence in Mexico underscores two realities in the government's war against drug traffickers: Nearly all the guns the cartels use are smuggled into Mexico from the U.S., and officials say a small number of corrupt American weapons dealers are making the gun running possible.

"It's a war," said Bill Newell, special agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona and New Mexico. "It's a war between the drug cartels. And it's a war between the government and the drug cartels. And the weapons of war are the weapons that they are acquiring illegally here in the United States."

Authorities don't know how many firearms are sneaked across the border, but the ATF says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 the year before and about 2,100 in 2006. The increase is attributed both to a higher volume going south and a growing interest among Mexican authorities in running recovered weapons through a U.S. gun-tracing database.

Mexican and U.S. officials estimate the cartels get 95 percent of their guns from the United States; others are stolen when cartels overrun Mexican authorities. Cartels recruit "straw buyers" in the United States who make purchases on their behalf. Then people are paid to bring the weapons across the border.

The Associated Press: Cartels in Mexico's drug war get guns from US

If you just legalize marijuana and coke this would be not such a problem.
And I will give another example of poor gun control: you are a seventeen year old trying to fit in doing drugs, your father is a retired military person and has a gun not locked up so you steal it to brag to your friends. So one friend talked you into bringing it out and you are high so you shoot at a red car and you hit a innocent young kid same age as you but really you are not that bad of a kid. Then your friend turns you to get a deal because they were there plus they have other things on their record they could go away for. You get arrested two days after you shoot this kid but your friend who is more corrupt then you get's off. YOu plead quitly and spend a year before going to prison finding GOD and turing your life around and then in prison and out you pay your victim money every month. And a year after your friend talked you into shooting at that car that was bad plus talking you into stealing your dad gun shoots a cab driver in the back of the head, how do you feel?
Or how do you feel when you are fourteen years old and you watch a bullet be taken out of your big brother's face who is only seventeen right in front of you because your parents had to talk to ER person about insurance and than you have someone tell you there is a good reason to keep a gun in their house with children.

 

[Luissa]

but seriously I love some of the people around here even the ones who were in military try to talk to me about gun control and how I am invading on their rights.
I think being a fourteen year old who grew up in suburbia who saw her brother and than a hour later had to go to the ER because he was shot. And then because I loved my brother so much I wouldn't leave him alone while our parents had to talk to the office lady and than the doctor came in while I was alone and remove part of bullet from my brother's face. And that brother was worried about me and everyone else over himself and he wasn't some low life or gang member just some normal high school kid who felt bad when then kid who shot him got sentenced because he didn't tell him he forgave him. And my brother today who is also conservative now does not own a gun!

 

[Article 15]

but seriously I love some of the people around here even the ones who were in military try to talk to me about gun control and how I am invading on their rights.
I think being a fourteen year old who grew up in suburbia who saw her brother and than a hour later had to go to the ER because he was shot. And then because I loved my brother so much I wouldn't leave him alone while our parents had to talk to the office lady and than the doctor came in while I was alone and remove part of bullet from my brother's face. And that brother was worried about me and everyone else over himself and he wasn't some low life or gang member just some normal high school kid who felt bad when then kid who shot him got sentenced because he didn't tell him he forgave him. And my brother today who is also conservative now does not own a gun!

Luissa, I am sorry you had to go through that. I understand that personal experiences especially traumatizing ones like you had greatly effect how we view certain issues.

What are your specific views towards "gun control?"

 

[strollingbones]

i am sorry for you personal experience....

now let me give you mine...grew up in homes with guns...in my father's home...there was never a minute that he was not 3 ft from a gun...i grew up thinking this was normal..it was this way in both my grandparents homes...we have never *knock on wood* had a gun related accident in any of these homes or in any of the homes of my family that keep guns....*to be honest all of them keep guns, i cannot think of one who does not* we have all been taught...all guns are loaded...since we were able to be taught...

a gun has saved my life...i am entitled to self protection.

 

[Luissa]

but seriously I love some of the people around here even the ones who were in military try to talk to me about gun control and how I am invading on their rights.
I think being a fourteen year old who grew up in suburbia who saw her brother and than a hour later had to go to the ER because he was shot. And then because I loved my brother so much I wouldn't leave him alone while our parents had to talk to the office lady and than the doctor came in while I was alone and remove part of bullet from my brother's face. And that brother was worried about me and everyone else over himself and he wasn't some low life or gang member just some normal high school kid who felt bad when then kid who shot him got sentenced because he didn't tell him he forgave him. And my brother today who is also conservative now does not own a gun!

Luissa, I am sorry you had to go through that. I understand that personal experiences especially traumatizing ones like you had greatly effect how we view certain issues.

What are your specific views towards "gun control?"

I am for gun education and for regulations on gun safety like having a gun case that has a lock. I understand that there is a need for a gun, I have a brother who is Wyomning rancher who needs guns for animal purposes. If you 9mm which is what my brother was shot with you should have a gun safe and if you have children in your house with guns you should have to send them to a gun control class!

 

[Luissa]

i am sorry for you personal experience....

now let me give you mine...grew up in homes with guns...in my father's home...there was never a minute that he was not 3 ft from a gun...i grew up thinking this was normal..it was this way in both my grandparents homes...we have never *knock on wood* had a gun related accident in any of these homes or in any of the homes of my family that keep guns....*to be honest all of them keep guns, i cannot think of one who does not* we have all been taught...all guns are loaded...since we were able to be taught...

a gun has saved my life...i am entitled to self protection.

my mom who grew up on a farm i idaho and was married to wyomning rancher had a shot gun in my house the whole time I was growing up and I didn't know until my mom gave it to my brother because it was our uncles and he wanted him to have it. My mom was also a NRA member and has always voted liberal or democrat!
And due to the way my mom taught us I shot my first gun this last year and it made me nervous because of the lessons she taught us and fear she tauht us!

 

[strollingbones]

i dont keep hand guns in the house...i prefer shotguns or rifles...my father always said a shot gun....a sawed off...was the best protection for a woman....all you have to do is aim and pull the trigger....i used trigger locks when my son was younger...but now he has his own guns. you need to shoot till you feel comfortable and not afraid of the gun.

 

[Article 15]

I am for gun education and for regulations on gun safety like having a gun case that has a lock. I understand that there is a need for a gun, I have a brother who is Wyomning rancher who needs guns for animal purposes. If you 9mm which is what my brother was shot with you should have a gun safe and if you have children in your house with guns you should have to send them to a gun control class!

I'm down with all of those things but on a voluntary basis though I would definitely prefer to be the one teaching my child (if I had one) how to respect and use a firearm.

 

[Luissa]

i dont keep hand guns in the house...i prefer shotguns or rifles...my father always said a shot gun....a sawed off...was the best protection for a woman....all you have to do is aim and pull the trigger....i used trigger locks when my son was younger...but now he has his own guns. you need to shoot till you feel comfortable and not afraid of the gun.

my problem is I like the control of it!
and your dad sounds smart!
The funny thing is, is my mom is very liberal believes in the NRA, had that gun until she gave it to my brother and is a country girl living in suburbia which she hates. I love it when Allie talks about liberal and how un patriatic they are and un christian they are. My mom was a lobyist, a nonprofit lobyist for the beef industry in the late 70's and still a liberal, my dad who is liberal gets mad every time you talk bad about Kennedy, the moon landing, and anything else regarding that sort of thing plus he was a youth group leader and part of the young christian group and never smoked pot while in college during the late 60's.
Also when some talk about morals and liberals, and than I think of my father who is a liberal and he is the best father one could ask for. He coached every single one of his kids in sports including my brothers who were his step children. And now my brother's his stepson's think of him as a father more then their own and my brother who has a child due in three months his naming that child after him.
I am a liberal and I always have my flag even when I was living in my apartment in my twenties when the Irag war started. My friends asked me how I could fly the flag and I said how could I not, we live in a country where you can legally burn the flag and I also said I don't like my president but he is my president and I support him!

 

[Luissa]

sorry I got drunk tonight, I never get out anymore which I am fine with because I have the most perfect son ever!
but I would also like to add this guy at my work said with Obama being president it is a great time to be an American and I said you shoud always be proud to be proud to be American. How does that fit into the liberal generalization?

 

[bigdaddygtr]

PHOENIX (AP) — As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.

Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.

The rifle's presence in Mexico underscores two realities in the government's war against drug traffickers: Nearly all the guns the cartels use are smuggled into Mexico from the U.S., and officials say a small number of corrupt American weapons dealers are making the gun running possible.

"It's a war," said Bill Newell, special agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona and New Mexico. "It's a war between the drug cartels. And it's a war between the government and the drug cartels. And the weapons of war are the weapons that they are acquiring illegally here in the United States."

Authorities don't know how many firearms are sneaked across the border, but the ATF says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 the year before and about 2,100 in 2006. The increase is attributed both to a higher volume going south and a growing interest among Mexican authorities in running recovered weapons through a U.S. gun-tracing database.

Mexican and U.S. officials estimate the cartels get 95 percent of their guns from the United States; others are stolen when cartels overrun Mexican authorities. Cartels recruit "straw buyers" in the United States who make purchases on their behalf. Then people are paid to bring the weapons across the border.




The Associated Press: Cartels in Mexico's drug war get guns from US

Really? Wow, and I thought that was impossible with all of our extremely stringent gun laws

 

[RetiredGySgt]

sorry I got drunk tonight, I never get out anymore which I am fine with because I have the most perfect son ever!
but I would also like to add this guy at my work said with Obama being president it is a great time to be an American and I said you shoud always be proud to be proud to be American. How does that fit into the liberal generalization?

Right with his racist wife, remember? She was only proud of America for the first time cause they nominated her Husband.

 

[editec]

Our hypocracy created this mess, folks.

The war on drugs is a war on people, not drugs.

WoD creates a situation where criminal enterprises become more powerful than police or the government.

The fact that guns are involved is really not the problem.

Gun control will not solve this. Guns are just tools, not the source of the problem.

Neither are they the solution.

The solution is to stop trying to control that which is not controlable.

We learned this during prohibition and when we finally realized that we then started the WoD simply to give the police establishment involved in prohi8bition on alcohol something to do.

Seriously, folks, that was the purpose of the WoDs...it was a launched as a fiull employment for cops and prosecuters law, and since at the time, that war was mostly conducted on Blacks and Mexicans, most Americans didn't mind.

Having been one of the oppressed minority in America for over 40 years now, and having seen what foolishness that stems from it, all I can say is the cost of attempting people like me from taking drugs far exceeds any benefit derived from the process.

But I think I'm mostly preaching to the choir, here, aren't I?

This is one issue where the normal Lib/Con division doesn't exist and yet STILL our government continues the madness.

Ask yourself why, in state after state the PEOPLE come down in opposition to this foolishness, that it still exists.

If you're being honest with yourself, you have to acknowledge that the needs of the POLICE STATE CLASS are considered more important, at least in the issue of hemp, than the will of the people.

Now does that sound like what happens in an honestly run Democratic Republic?

No?

Then what does that really tell you abaout the political health of this nation?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Once again, unless you plan to subsidize the drug use of hard core drug users, legalizing it does nothing to stop crime. To many hard drugs make the user unable to work or carry on a normal life. Those people will not suddenly disappear when you legalize the drug. People newly addicted will not stop happening when you legalize the drug.

The gangs that control the drugs will not suddenly go away either. One does not cope out on their responsibilities cause it would be easier to just do nothing. Well not normal sane people.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

sorry I got drunk tonight, I never get out anymore which I am fine with because I have the most perfect son ever!
but I would also like to add this guy at my work said with Obama being president it is a great time to be an American and I said you shoud always be proud to be proud to be American. How does that fit into the liberal generalization?

Right with his racist wife, remember? She was only proud of America for the first time cause they nominated her Husband.

I wouldn't expect someone like you to have ANY understanding of what she meant in that comment Sarg

 

[editec]

Once again, unless you plan to subsidize the drug use of hard core drug users, legalizing it does nothing to stop crime.

Really?

When was the last time you heard of the Mafia controlling the beer industry?

When was the last time that you read about a drive by shooting of liquor store owners each seeking to dominate a neighborhood?

To many hard drugs make the user unable to work or carry on a normal life.

True. And making them criminals makes them able to work or carry on a normal life how exactly?

Those people will not suddenly disappear when you legalize the drug.

Agreed.

People newly addicted will not stop happening when you legalize the drug.

Niether will continuing this bogus war on people make them stop taking drugs.

The gangs that control the drugs will not suddenly go away either.

No, but their cash cow drug business that gives them both recruitment encentive AND the cash to purchase automatic weapons will.

One does not cope out on their responsibilities cause it would be easier to just do nothing. Well not normal sane people.

Totally agree.

And doing nothing now is continuing the failed War on Drugs policies that have not only failed to end drug useage, but have actually made the worst people in the world wealthy, and destroyed countless lives of people who committed no crime other than taking drugs illegally.

.

 

[Missourian]

PHOENIX (AP) — As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.

Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.

The rifle's presence in Mexico underscores two realities in the government's war against drug traffickers: Nearly all the guns the cartels use are smuggled into Mexico from the U.S., and officials say a small number of corrupt American weapons dealers are making the gun running possible.

"It's a war," said Bill Newell, special agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona and New Mexico. "It's a war between the drug cartels. And it's a war between the government and the drug cartels. And the weapons of war are the weapons that they are acquiring illegally here in the United States."

Authorities don't know how many firearms are sneaked across the border, but the ATF says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 the year before and about 2,100 in 2006. The increase is attributed both to a higher volume going south and a growing interest among Mexican authorities in running recovered weapons through a U.S. gun-tracing database.

Mexican and U.S. officials estimate the cartels get 95 percent of their guns from the United States; others are stolen when cartels overrun Mexican authorities. Cartels recruit "straw buyers" in the United States who make purchases on their behalf. Then people are paid to bring the weapons across the border.

The Associated Press: Cartels in Mexico's drug war get guns from US

Four important points to understand here:

1) Grenades are illegal everywhere in the Americas. Where did these drug cartels get them? They are criminals, they don't care about what is legal. The bought them on the black market illegally or stole them.

2) AK-47's are illegal for citizens of Mexico who are not military or police. They are banned. But the criminals don't care what's banned. Criminals don't obey the law and don't care if they have to go 800 or 8,000 miles to buy and smuggle firearms. All this proves is bans deny law abiding citizens, criminals will do whatever it takes to obtain grenades, machine guns and rocket launchers.

3). Strawman purchases are 100% illegal in the United States as is smuggling firearms into or out of the country. Once again, criminals don't obey laws...only law abiding citizens do.

4). Mexico has some of the harshest gun law in the world.

• The United Mexican States or Mexico (Spanish: Estados Unidos Mexicanos or México) has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. It is in many ways similar to the United Kingdom, except with much more severe prison terms for even the smallest gun law violations.

But criminals...wait for it...don't obey the law. They believe they are above the law. They don't think they'll get caught.

Gun bans don't stop criminals from getting guns, period. This article only underscores that fact.

 

[Chris]

I commend everyone here for a good thread debate without the usually name calling.

Reasonable gun laws don't restrict the rights of gun owners and help keep guns out of the hands of criminals, not only in this country, but in Mexico and Canada as well. Local background checks could keep some of these straw buyers from buying guns here and taking them to Mexico.