Dresden in 1945

[Weatherman2020]

There were no factories in Dresden building military "aircraft, tanks, artillery, anti-aircraft guns, or optics".
Only civilian goods were made in Dresden in any volume.
There were no oil refineries in Dresden.
Fuel depots are civilian and not valid targets.
Omaha Nebraska does have no military value and would be illegal to target.

London was the first city bombed.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There were no factories in Dresden building military "aircraft, tanks, artillery, anti-aircraft guns, or optics".
Only civilian goods were made in Dresden in any volume.
There were no oil refineries in Dresden.
Fuel depots are civilian and not valid targets.
Omaha Nebraska does have no military value and would be illegal to target.

Dresden had a “major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the continued Nazi German war effort.”

Like Hamas, surrender if you want it to stop.

 

[Rigby5]

Thanks for the input, Adolf.
I’m sure the Jews were involved too.

England was the worst criminal in the history of the world, with illegal colonial possessions all over the world, like China, India, Malaysia, etc.
France also had lots of illegal colonial possessions, like Algeria, Vietnam, etc.
The US was also criminal, with Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, etc.

And it is clear the Allies started WWI.
They trained and armed Princip to assassinate Archduke Ferdinand and his wife.
And France invaded southern Germany first.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Totally wrong.

We did not just "break some of the Japanese codes", but broke ALL of them, so that we knew exactly what they were planning.
The USS Ruben James escorting weapons to England was illegal.

The fact we sent ships to the Pacific is not suspicious, but the fact we insisted only OLD and OBSOLETE ships were allowed in Pearl Harbor, is VERY suspicious.
The 12 new aircraft carriers were NOT allowed to be at Pearl Harbor.

First, none of the modern "treaty battleships" of the Washington and South Dakota classes were in service before Pearl Harbor. Of the eight battleships at Pearl Harbor, Maryland and West Virginia were two of the four most modern battleships in commission in the USN. Second, what twelve carriers were not allowed to be in Pearl Harbor? In December 1941, the USN only had two Lexington class, three Yorktown class, Ranger, Wasp and Long Island (escort carrier). Unless my counting ability has taken as serious hit, that is a total of EIGHT CARRIERS

 

[Weatherman2020]

England was the worst criminal in the history of the world, with illegal colonial possessions all over the world, like China, India, Malaysia, etc.
France also had lots of illegal colonial possessions, like Algeria, Vietnam, etc.
The US was also criminal, with Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, etc.

And it is clear the Allies started WWI.
They trained and armed Princip to assassinate Archduke Ferdinand and his wife.
And France invaded southern Germany first.

Ah yes. Hitler and his minions wanted peaceful coexistence, but those darn Jews, English and Americans forced them to go for world domination.

 

[Moonglow]

I preferred Catch-22..

 

[Rigby5]

London was the first city bombed.

London was not bombed until after the British bombed Berlin, and the Germans still targeted war materials manufacturing.

Berlin was attacked in June of 1940
{...
The Jules Verne, a variant of the Farman F.220 of the French Naval Aviation, was the first Allied bomber to raid Berlin. On the night of 7 June 1940, it dropped eight bombs of 250 kg and eighty of 10 kg on the German capital.
...}

London was not attacked until September of 1940.
{...
By September 1940, the Luftwaffe had lost the Battle of Britain and the German air fleets (Luftflotten) were ordered to attack London, to draw RAF Fighter Command into a battle of annihilation.[5][6] Adolf Hitler and Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe, ordered the new policy on 6 September 1940.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

Dresden had a “major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the continued Nazi German war effort.”

Like Hamas, surrender if you want it to stop.

That is just lies.
There was no war effort in Dresden.
And it is illegal to attack civilian rail yards.

Hamas can't surrender because the Israelis have taken their homes and farmlands, as well as illegally blockading any trade they could have done to survive.
It is Israel that is the criminal, and has been for 80 years.

 

[Weatherman2020]

London was not bombed until after the British bombed Berlin, and the Germans still targeted war materials manufacturing.

Berlin was attacked in June of 1940
{...
The Jules Verne, a variant of the Farman F.220 of the French Naval Aviation, was the first Allied bomber to raid Berlin. On the night of 7 June 1940, it dropped eight bombs of 250 kg and eighty of 10 kg on the German capital.
...}

London was not attacked until September of 1940.
{...
By September 1940, the Luftwaffe had lost the Battle of Britain and the German air fleets (Luftflotten) were ordered to attack London, to draw RAF Fighter Command into a battle of annihilation.[5][6] Adolf Hitler and Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe, ordered the new policy on 6 September 1940.
...}

So Germany bombs Paris and when a French plane drops 8 bombs on Berlin as retaliation, France is the aggressor.

Got it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

That is just lies.
There was no war effort in Dresden.
And it is illegal to attack civilian rail yards.

Hamas can't surrender because the Israelis have taken their homes and farmlands, as well as illegally blockading any trade they could have done to survive.
It is Israel that is the criminal, and has been for 80 years.

Oh?
Let me guess. All of the citizens of Dresden made a living by making chocolates and bon bons.

 

[Rigby5]

Ah yes. Hitler and his minions wanted peaceful coexistence, but those darn Jews, English and Americans forced them to go for world domination.

Wrong.
Hitler was a US puppet that did not realize who was funding all his parades.
The US wanted to continue the munitions profits they had made from WWI.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Wrong.
Hitler was a US puppet that did not realize who was funding all his parades.
The US wanted to continue the munitions profits they had made from WWI.

Who said drugs don’t warp a brain?

 

[DudleySmith]

And Dresden was a legitimate military target. It had the largest railyards in Germany, in addition to over 200 factories churning out wartime goods. It was the home to oil plants, aircraft and tank factories, anti-aircraft and artillery factories. And the largest manufacturer of optics in the country.

^^^This.

 

[DudleySmith]

The major 'turning points' in WW II were made in the three months from Oct. 4 to January 1, 1943, on both fronts, actually three fronts for the U.S.

By January 1, 1943 the Axis was headed toward certain defeat. The Allies had reversed the tide in five decisive Guadalcanal, El Alamein, Operation Torch, Stalingrad and The Barents Sea.

The Ninety Days

On October 4, 1942, Hitler and the Japanese War Lords w…

www.goodreads.com

Stalingrad was a German mistake, not anything the Soviets did on purpose. The European front forced Hitler to strip the East of Luftwaffe aircraft and anti-aircraft guns, plus all the American and Brit tanks in the Kursk Pocket made the Soviet offensive possible in the first place, along with Allied gun powder, boots, uniforms. food, British aircraft engines aviation fuel boosters, etc. The U.S. was ultimately responsible for over 40% of German casualties by the end of the war, and inflicted that in a much shorter time frame and with lower casualties to its own forces. The U.S. fought very well considering the logistical hurdles alone. The Soviets merely launched human wave attacks and lost two battles for every one they won, even against 12 year old kids and old men.

 

[odanny]

There were no factories in Dresden building military "aircraft, tanks, artillery, anti-aircraft guns, or optics".
Only civilian goods were made in Dresden in any volume.
There were no oil refineries in Dresden.
Fuel depots are civilian and not valid targets.
Omaha Nebraska does have no military value and would be illegal to target.

There was no military value in bombing Dresden other than, up to that point, it was largely untouched by Allied bombing and this could have been revenge for the Blitz, but more likely the Allies thought it would weaken morale. Fairly sure it was done for both reasons. There is also the idea that this would fall into Russian hands as plans to the partitioning of Germany were underway

 

[AZrailwhale]

Wrong.
We only lost obsolete WWI ships at Pearl Harbor.
They were built before air attacks, so have no deck defense against bombs, so were worthless.
We lost no carriers or functional battleships.
And no, in every conflict, battleships turned out to be pretty much useless, and carrier beat battleships every time.
Which is why no one bothers building battleships anymore.
Totally useless.

The only WWI ship lost at Pearl Harbor was the USS Utah which had been converted to a target ship

 

[Mushroom]

First, none of the modern "treaty battleships" of the Washington and South Dakota classes were in service before Pearl Harbor. Of the eight battleships at Pearl Harbor, Maryland and West Virginia were two of the four most modern battleships in commission in the USN. Second, what twelve carriers were not allowed to be in Pearl Harbor? In December 1941, the USN only had two Lexington class, three Yorktown class, Ranger, Wasp and Long Island (escort carrier). Unless my counting ability has taken as serious hit, that is a total of EIGHT CARRIERS

This is the kind of thing people who know nothing about the war bring up all the time.

At the time the war broke out, the US had three carriers in the Pacific. They were the Saratoga, Lexington, and Enterprise. Of the three, Saratoga was just arriving in San Diego after a nine month long refit in Washington and was doing final preparations to take on their aircraft and return to Hawaii. Enterprise was returning to Hawaii after offloading aircraft at Wake. And Lexington had just left Hawaii to deliver aircraft to Midway.

That is exactly what I meant when I said they were in "ferry mode" earlier. Before WWII, one of the main missions of carriers was actually delivering aircraft to more remote outposts. Where they leave with the hanger and deck full of aircraft, all destined for someplace like Guam or the Philippines. They then leave behind all but a small number for CAP purposes then return to get more aircraft. The only other way to get fighters to outposts at that time was to literally ship them in crates in cargo ships to be assembled locally (that was how the Philippines and AVG got most of their aircraft).

All of our other carriers (Yorktown, Ranger, Wasp, Hornet, Long Island) were part of the Atlantic Fleet But we did have the USS Langley, even though at that time she was a sea plane tender attached to the Asiatic Fleet in the Philippines. But there were already considerations to return her to an aircraft carrier configuration when the war broke out.

As for the Battleships, I guess the poster has no idea that there was a global ban on Battleship construction in place for most of the period between the world wars. The newest Battleships in service at that time were indeed the four Colorado Class ships, two of which were at Pearl. We did have the two North Carolina class ships, but those had only recently been commissioned and were not in service yet as they were both undergoing their initial shakedown cruises along the East Coast. But the plan had always been to send the USS North Carolina to the Pacific when that was completed, and the USS Washington to remain with the Atlantic Fleet. And that is exactly what happened.

Gotta love when people simply throw out random nonsense they believe, but are completely unable to actually back up their claims with anything even remotely akin to a "fact".

But slight correction, the Washington was not a class, it was a ship of the North Carolina class (the second of two). And while active, it was still undergoing crew training and shakedown so was not ready for fleet service yet. The classes that followed the North Carolina class were the South Dakota and Iowa classes. The South Dakota class ships would not enter service until the middle of 1942. And I think the Iowa class ships had little more than their keels laid.

And between the Colorado and North Carolina classes, there was another "South Dakota" class that was planned and six were actually under construction. But as the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 restricted the battleship tonnage of navies construction on all six was cancelled and they were scrapped. However, their guns were transferred to the Army where they were used as coastal defense guns in San Francisco and Panama. And their boilers and armor were then used to modernize ships in the Florida, Wyoming, and New York classes.

In fact, one of the recipients was the USS Utah, BB-31. And while an old ship first entering service in 1911 and sunk at Pearl Harbor, it actually was not really a "Battleship" at that time. Often listed as one of the losses, that ship was not even a Battleship at the time. In 1931 she had been demilitarized in accordance with the London Naval Treaty of 1930 and had all of her offensive armament removed or decommissioned. She was at the time of Pearl Harbor the AG-16, a training ship used for training anti-aircraft crews, and as a target ship for other ships undergoing training.

 

[Mushroom]

There was no military value in bombing Dresden other than

The large number of factories churning out war material were not of "military value"?

 

[odanny]

The large number of factories churning out war material were not of "military value"?

You could say that about any major city in Germany, it provides justification for their bombing but there was nothing in Dresden that warranted that level of destruction

 

[Rigby5]

So Germany bombs Paris and when a French plane drops 8 bombs on Berlin as retaliation, France is the aggressor.

Got it.

Wrong.

{...
In late August the Germans dropped some bombs, apparently by accident, on civilian areas in London. On August 25 the British retaliated by launching a bombing raid on Berlin. Göring had insisted that such an attack was an impossibility, because of the city’s formidable air defense network.
...}