Donald Trump feels that loaded weapons should be allowed in elementary schools.

[hadit]

No, thats just another example of your creative translating

Given modern politicians, it's

And a more logical, no-brainer suggestion has never been made. Sheesh, OF COURSE some teachers should have loaded guns handy, and this fact should be advertised so that every would-be mass shooter or terrorist knows that schools won't be such easy targets anymore.

The Israelis have had armed teachers for years, without problems.

Why do you fear guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, especially when those guns could enable those citizens to save lives?

Let me tell you: Your brainwashed brain might not be able to handle such common sense and logic as Trump is proposing, but a lot of average Americans heartily agree with Trump that it's high time to start arming our teachers, and also our military personnel at recruiting stations.

Imagine a teacher at the blackboard explaining how to perform long division to the children when the door opens and before she can drop her chalk and pull out her gun she or he is dead on the floor.

Imagine a teacher at the blackboard explaining how to perform long division to the children when she hears gunshots down the hall. She tells the children to get under their desks and gets her gun, does what needs to be done.

Friendly fire kills too. And teachers will spend less time on gun training than on grading papers and record keeping. Ask anyone who has been in a fire fight the difference between that and the range.

What part of "voluntary" is so difficult to comprehend?

What part of George Zimmerman do you fail to understand? People who want to have power and control (which is provided by a gun) over others are most likely incapable of passing the strict background check and psychological evaluations necessary to become an armed law enforcement officer. The cost to background is expensive, the cost to train and arm and supervise is expensive and most school districts lack the money for books and other necessities required for effective teaching.

What about Zimmerman? We're talking about people that have earned their concealed carry permits and who have cleared their desire to bring a weapon into the classroom with the school administration. Again, the teacher is the LAST line of defense for the children, and you want that last line to have limited options to protect them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Start 'em off young.

Trump has a brain, you don't.

 

[hadit]

And a more logical, no-brainer suggestion has never been made. Sheesh, OF COURSE some teachers should have loaded guns handy, and this fact should be advertised so that every would-be mass shooter or terrorist knows that schools won't be such easy targets anymore.

The Israelis have had armed teachers for years, without problems.

Why do you fear guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, especially when those guns could enable those citizens to save lives?

Let me tell you: Your brainwashed brain might not be able to handle such common sense and logic as Trump is proposing, but a lot of average Americans heartily agree with Trump that it's high time to start arming our teachers, and also our military personnel at recruiting stations.

Imagine a teacher at the blackboard explaining how to perform long division to the children when the door opens and before she can drop her chalk and pull out her gun she or he is dead on the floor.

Dude, you can always come up with a scenario in which the teacher is killed. That doesn't in the slightest change the reality that a few teachers trained in handling firearms and armed have a lot better chance to stop the slaughter of their students than a completely unarmed teacher. You simply can't change that reality, no matter how much you want to.

That's true. Nor can you change the reality that highly trained soldiers and police, wearing body army and supported with a number of others on their team are killed and wounded, and sometimes kill or wound others with friendly fire, in the chaos of a fire fight.

And on the chance that only a few teachers are so armed and trained, what are the odds a shooter will pick the one with an armed teacher, and wouldn't an armed teacher create just what a suicidal mass killer wants, the ability to kill an armed authority figure and other innocents or die trying?

From where do you get the idea that a suicidal mass killer wants "the ability to kill an armed authority figure and other innocents or die trying?". Seriously, where do you get that idea? I will tell you now that it is false because shooters deliberately target areas where opposing guns are few or non-existent. If he REALLY wanted to take out an armed authority figure, he would walk into a police station and open fire. Typically, they do not do that. So, make your case. I really want to know where you get that idea.

A potential shooter KNOWS that a school is going to be a very soft target, because there will either be no guns there to oppose him, or very few. This information is very publicly known. If, OTOH, he does NOT know if there are any guns in the hands of his potential victims, he has to roll the dice. This is not hard to understand.

Wait
Some shooters will try to shoot the most protected individual in the nation.

Remember, Hinckley tried to kill Reagan!

When it comes to crazies, anything is possible.

Compare the numbers of attempted assassins to the number of schools being shot up. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I continue to challenge the idea that, in the context of a school shooter, his goal is trying to kill an armed authority figure.

 

[hadit]

Dude, you can always come up with a scenario in which the teacher is killed. That doesn't in the slightest change the reality that a few teachers trained in handling firearms and armed have a lot better chance to stop the slaughter of their students than a completely unarmed teacher. You simply can't change that reality, no matter how much you want to.

That's true. Nor can you change the reality that highly trained soldiers and police, wearing body army and supported with a number of others on their team are killed and wounded, and sometimes kill or wound others with friendly fire, in the chaos of a fire fight.

And on the chance that only a few teachers are so armed and trained, what are the odds a shooter will pick the one with an armed teacher, and wouldn't an armed teacher create just what a suicidal mass killer wants, the ability to kill an armed authority figure and other innocents or die trying?

From where do you get the idea that a suicidal mass killer wants "the ability to kill an armed authority figure and other innocents or die trying?". Seriously, where do you get that idea? I will tell you now that it is false because shooters deliberately target areas where opposing guns are few or non-existent. If he REALLY wanted to take out an armed authority figure, he would walk into a police station and open fire. Typically, they do not do that. So, make your case. I really want to know where you get that idea.

A potential shooter KNOWS that a school is going to be a very soft target, because there will either be no guns there to oppose him, or very few. This information is very publicly known. If, OTOH, he does NOT know if there are any guns in the hands of his potential victims, he has to roll the dice. This is not hard to understand.

Suicide by cop. Thus what you say is a half-truth, since the shooter knows that a police response will be fast and overwhelming.

You didn't answer the question, where did you get the idea that a mass murderer wants to kill an armed authority figure? Keep in mind that in your desired world, there will be no armed authority figure in that school, nothing to stop him until he runs out of bullets or misses a target that then tackles him, after many children are dying on the floor.

Read my post above, and survey the conclusion of what happens after the police respond to mass shootings. The shooter goes out under a sheet.

Yes, AFTER the maximum number of children are dead on the floor. For the sake of the argument, let's stipulate that a shooter is trying to kill an armed authority figure. In this case, we can either:

1. Let that authority figure be the police, who show up with mops and body bags, or
2. An armed teacher, who takes him out before he can get more than a few shots off.

Is that a win-win for everyone? He gets what he wants and children's lives are saved.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Friendly fire kills too. And teachers will spend less time on gun training than on grading papers and record keeping. Ask anyone who has been in a fire fight the difference between that and the range.

By that "logic" there should be no such thing as armed security guards.

Armed guards (theoretically) are focused on guarding and understand the risk of not paying attention, teachers are focused on teaching. I've stood four hour midwatches in the dark and cold, which can be a distraction, but remained alert because every fifteen minutes I needed to sign off on the log and the walk between posts took fifteen minutes, and I never knew if the OD might be waiting for me there or anywhere between the posts. If he was I had better be ready to challenge him and respond to one of the General Orders for Sentry Duty.

The bottom line remains, that teacher is the last line of defense for the children in his/her care, and you want to make sure he/she has limited options to protect those children.

Do you believe an elementary school teacher lies awake at night dreaming of becoming a hero by killing another human being? Do you believe a teacher will react more quickly than someone intent on committing murder? Consider the act of shooting, shooting at a target which will not shoot back is simple, and yet those who don't have much experience rarely hit the black with any regularity. Imagine the fear plus the smell, sound and screams surrounding such an event? It is a recipe for panic no matter how much training a teacher might have had.

 

[idb]

What a depressing thread.
Arguing about the necessity of teachers in US schools to carry firearms in order to protect the children from other Americans.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Trump is such a ***** that he's probably never even fired a gun before.

So, people who fire guns are strong and brave? Er... really?

Actually I never said that. Perhaps you should re-read.

No, I didn't claim that is what you had said, otherwise I'd have put it in quotation marks.

What you did say was that Trump is a ***** and has probably never fired a gun, as if being a ***** makes him not want to fire guns, as in, if you fire guns it's because you're not a *****.

It takes a degree of daring to fire a gun. That doesn't mean I think anyone who fires a gun is "strong and brave". That's a huge leap.

A degree of daring? Really? How much of a degree? 1 degree? 0.00003 of a degree?

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

"Veronica Rutledge was shopping at an Idaho Walmart, when deputies say her 2-year-old son reached into her purse and accidentally discharged the gun, killing her. VPC"

I'm wondering how much of a degree of daring her two year old son had.

Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun - BBC News

"
Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun"

Or how much daring this 5 year old had when he killed his sister.

Philadelphia Toddler Accidentally Kills Sister With Loaded Gun

"A toddler in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania accidentally killed his older sister while handling a loaded handgun on Saturday morning. The two-year-old boy and three of his siblings were playing with the gun which was left at the home the previous night. The toddler pointed the loaded and cocked .357 magnum at his sister and the gun went off."

Or this two year old.

Well, personally, I first fired a gun when I was about 14 years old. It didn't take me any daring, and the other people I was around at the range, all between 13 and 17, also didn't have much daring either. You just took the gun, aimed the gun, pulled the trigger and you either hit the target or you didn't hit the target.

 

[Billy000]

Trump is such a ***** that he's probably never even fired a gun before.

So, people who fire guns are strong and brave? Er... really?

Actually I never said that. Perhaps you should re-read.

No, I didn't claim that is what you had said, otherwise I'd have put it in quotation marks.

What you did say was that Trump is a ***** and has probably never fired a gun, as if being a ***** makes him not want to fire guns, as in, if you fire guns it's because you're not a *****.

It takes a degree of daring to fire a gun. That doesn't mean I think anyone who fires a gun is "strong and brave". That's a huge leap.

A degree of daring? Really? How much of a degree? 1 degree? 0.00003 of a degree?

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

"Veronica Rutledge was shopping at an Idaho Walmart, when deputies say her 2-year-old son reached into her purse and accidentally discharged the gun, killing her. VPC"

I'm wondering how much of a degree of daring her two year old son had.

Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun - BBC News

"
Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun"

Or how much daring this 5 year old had when he killed his sister.

Philadelphia Toddler Accidentally Kills Sister With Loaded Gun

"A toddler in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania accidentally killed his older sister while handling a loaded handgun on Saturday morning. The two-year-old boy and three of his siblings were playing with the gun which was left at the home the previous night. The toddler pointed the loaded and cocked .357 magnum at his sister and the gun went off."

Or this two year old.

Well, personally, I first fired a gun when I was about 14 years old. It didn't take me any daring, and the other people I was around at the range, all between 13 and 17, also didn't have much daring either. You just took the gun, aimed the gun, pulled the trigger and you either hit the target or you didn't hit the target.

I'm sorry are you suggesting a two year old child understands what a gun is? Obviously not. Some ADULTS get skiddish about firing a gun because, well, it's a gun. They know what it does. There's a simple nuance in my reasoning that you aren't getting for some reason. I'm not suggesting anyone is "brave" for firing a gun. It's nothing to be impressed by. But like I said, some people are skiddish about firing a gun.

 

[protectionist]

Aw Jeez, is that all you got? Other people lied so that means Trump didnt lie. Is that how this works? GWB lied about knowing about 9/11. I guess that means Hilary didnt like because 3000 didnt die! Weeeee

Once again. "at least he hasn't been caught in the serious kind of lies that Hillary has." Hillary's lying has DAMAGED NATIONAL SECURITY irreperably."
Got it now, ? (Mr Dodge)

GWB lied more that means Hilary didnt lie

GWB isn't running for POTUS. And nothing means Hillary didn't lie. Everyone (including Democrats know her lies). Like this is questionable ? LOL.

 

[protectionist]

Welp, Donald still lied. And no amount of false comparisons is going to change that. Of course he couldnt ever damage anything to do with govt. Because he wasnt ever in govt.

Its like saying a bird broke a branch out of a tree and at least a duck never has

The crux of is that Hillary has damaged US NATIONAL SECURITY to which it can NEVER be repaired. Trump hasn't done that (or anything even close)

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, people who fire guns are strong and brave? Er... really?

Actually I never said that. Perhaps you should re-read.

No, I didn't claim that is what you had said, otherwise I'd have put it in quotation marks.

What you did say was that Trump is a ***** and has probably never fired a gun, as if being a ***** makes him not want to fire guns, as in, if you fire guns it's because you're not a *****.

It takes a degree of daring to fire a gun. That doesn't mean I think anyone who fires a gun is "strong and brave". That's a huge leap.

A degree of daring? Really? How much of a degree? 1 degree? 0.00003 of a degree?

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

"Veronica Rutledge was shopping at an Idaho Walmart, when deputies say her 2-year-old son reached into her purse and accidentally discharged the gun, killing her. VPC"

I'm wondering how much of a degree of daring her two year old son had.

Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun - BBC News

"
Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun"

Or how much daring this 5 year old had when he killed his sister.

Philadelphia Toddler Accidentally Kills Sister With Loaded Gun

"A toddler in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania accidentally killed his older sister while handling a loaded handgun on Saturday morning. The two-year-old boy and three of his siblings were playing with the gun which was left at the home the previous night. The toddler pointed the loaded and cocked .357 magnum at his sister and the gun went off."

Or this two year old.

Well, personally, I first fired a gun when I was about 14 years old. It didn't take me any daring, and the other people I was around at the range, all between 13 and 17, also didn't have much daring either. You just took the gun, aimed the gun, pulled the trigger and you either hit the target or you didn't hit the target.

I'm sorry are you suggesting a two year old child understands what a gun is? Obviously not. Some ADULTS get skiddish about firing a gun because, well, it's a gun. They know what it does. There's a simple nuance in my reasoning that you aren't getting for some reason. I'm not suggesting anyone is "brave" for firing a gun. It's nothing to be impressed by. But like I said, some people are skiddish about firing a gun.

Well, isn't this the point? A 2 year old doesn't know what a gun is. And to use the gun they don't need an ounce of daring at all.

Which suggests to me that, in fact, it doesn't take an ounce of daring to use a gun at all.

 

[protectionist]

That's true. Nor can you change the reality that highly trained soldiers and police, wearing body army and supported with a number of others on their team are killed and wounded, and sometimes kill or wound others with friendly fire, in the chaos of a fire fight.

And on the chance that only a few teachers are so armed and trained, what are the odds a shooter will pick the one with an armed teacher, and wouldn't an armed teacher create just what a suicidal mass killer wants, the ability to kill an armed authority figure and other innocents or die trying?

No, it wouldn't create that. I hope nobody thinks less of me for dignifying this idiotic question with a response.

 

[protectionist]

I feel safer already.

Absolutely!

 

[frigidweirdo]

Welp, Donald still lied. And no amount of false comparisons is going to change that. Of course he couldnt ever damage anything to do with govt. Because he wasnt ever in govt.

Its like saying a bird broke a branch out of a tree and at least a duck never has

The crux of is that Hillary has damaged US NATIONAL SECURITY to which it can NEVER be repaired. Trump hasn't done that (or anything even close)

Then again Bush Dubya did something far worse than that, and he got reelected by the public. So, history repeats itself, seems Hillary has the mandate to win.

 

[Billy000]

Actually I never said that. Perhaps you should re-read.

No, I didn't claim that is what you had said, otherwise I'd have put it in quotation marks.

What you did say was that Trump is a ***** and has probably never fired a gun, as if being a ***** makes him not want to fire guns, as in, if you fire guns it's because you're not a *****.

It takes a degree of daring to fire a gun. That doesn't mean I think anyone who fires a gun is "strong and brave". That's a huge leap.

A degree of daring? Really? How much of a degree? 1 degree? 0.00003 of a degree?

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

"Veronica Rutledge was shopping at an Idaho Walmart, when deputies say her 2-year-old son reached into her purse and accidentally discharged the gun, killing her. VPC"

I'm wondering how much of a degree of daring her two year old son had.

Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun - BBC News

"
Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun"

Or how much daring this 5 year old had when he killed his sister.

Philadelphia Toddler Accidentally Kills Sister With Loaded Gun

"A toddler in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania accidentally killed his older sister while handling a loaded handgun on Saturday morning. The two-year-old boy and three of his siblings were playing with the gun which was left at the home the previous night. The toddler pointed the loaded and cocked .357 magnum at his sister and the gun went off."

Or this two year old.

Well, personally, I first fired a gun when I was about 14 years old. It didn't take me any daring, and the other people I was around at the range, all between 13 and 17, also didn't have much daring either. You just took the gun, aimed the gun, pulled the trigger and you either hit the target or you didn't hit the target.

I'm sorry are you suggesting a two year old child understands what a gun is? Obviously not. Some ADULTS get skiddish about firing a gun because, well, it's a gun. They know what it does. There's a simple nuance in my reasoning that you aren't getting for some reason. I'm not suggesting anyone is "brave" for firing a gun. It's nothing to be impressed by. But like I said, some people are skiddish about firing a gun.

Well, isn't this the point? A 2 year old doesn't know what a gun is. And to use the gun they don't need an ounce of daring at all.

Which suggests to me that, in fact, it doesn't take an ounce of daring to use a gun at all.

So you're suggesting there aren't adults who are nervous to fire a gun?

 

[Zoom-boing]

 

[frigidweirdo]

Aw Jeez, is that all you got? Other people lied so that means Trump didnt lie. Is that how this works? GWB lied about knowing about 9/11. I guess that means Hilary didnt like because 3000 didnt die! Weeeee

Once again. "at least he hasn't been caught in the serious kind of lies that Hillary has." Hillary's lying has DAMAGED NATIONAL SECURITY irreperably."
Got it now, ? (Mr Dodge)

GWB lied more that means Hilary didnt lie

GWB isn't running for POTUS. And nothing means Hillary didn't lie. Everyone (including Democrats know her lies). Like this is questionable ? LOL.

She's a politician, she lies, get over it. You've been voting for liars for I don't know how long, now, all of a sudden, you got a conscience? I doubt it, you'll just vote for another liar.

 

[idb]

Welp, Donald still lied. And no amount of false comparisons is going to change that. Of course he couldnt ever damage anything to do with govt. Because he wasnt ever in govt.

Its like saying a bird broke a branch out of a tree and at least a duck never has

The crux of is that Hillary has damaged US NATIONAL SECURITY to which it can NEVER be repaired. Trump hasn't done that (or anything even close)

He wants more countries to have nukes, he wants other countries to know that he won't guarantee repayment of debt...just to name two things he would do.
Trump has already started describing how he would damage US NATIONAL SECURITY beyond repair.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, I didn't claim that is what you had said, otherwise I'd have put it in quotation marks.

What you did say was that Trump is a ***** and has probably never fired a gun, as if being a ***** makes him not want to fire guns, as in, if you fire guns it's because you're not a *****.

It takes a degree of daring to fire a gun. That doesn't mean I think anyone who fires a gun is "strong and brave". That's a huge leap.

A degree of daring? Really? How much of a degree? 1 degree? 0.00003 of a degree?

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

"Veronica Rutledge was shopping at an Idaho Walmart, when deputies say her 2-year-old son reached into her purse and accidentally discharged the gun, killing her. VPC"

I'm wondering how much of a degree of daring her two year old son had.

Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun - BBC News

"
Kentucky boy, 5, shot dead sister, 2, with child gun"

Or how much daring this 5 year old had when he killed his sister.

Philadelphia Toddler Accidentally Kills Sister With Loaded Gun

"A toddler in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania accidentally killed his older sister while handling a loaded handgun on Saturday morning. The two-year-old boy and three of his siblings were playing with the gun which was left at the home the previous night. The toddler pointed the loaded and cocked .357 magnum at his sister and the gun went off."

Or this two year old.

Well, personally, I first fired a gun when I was about 14 years old. It didn't take me any daring, and the other people I was around at the range, all between 13 and 17, also didn't have much daring either. You just took the gun, aimed the gun, pulled the trigger and you either hit the target or you didn't hit the target.

I'm sorry are you suggesting a two year old child understands what a gun is? Obviously not. Some ADULTS get skiddish about firing a gun because, well, it's a gun. They know what it does. There's a simple nuance in my reasoning that you aren't getting for some reason. I'm not suggesting anyone is "brave" for firing a gun. It's nothing to be impressed by. But like I said, some people are skiddish about firing a gun.

Well, isn't this the point? A 2 year old doesn't know what a gun is. And to use the gun they don't need an ounce of daring at all.

Which suggests to me that, in fact, it doesn't take an ounce of daring to use a gun at all.

So you're suggesting there aren't adults who are nervous to fire a gun?

Maybe there are. There are also adults who might be nervous cutting an apple with a knife, or adults who are nervous driving cars, nervous kissing someone. Just because some people might be nervous about doing something, doesn't mean that everyone who does it requires daring, does it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I've said this a hundred times. Just because people around you are protecting you with guns, doesn't mean that guns keep everyone safe. Why do they need so many people with guns? Maybe because they don't trust people in society, meaning there's fear.


If I lived in a dangerous country, I'd want a gun, if I lived in a safe country, I wouldn't want a gun. Says more about American than anything else.