Does God Exist?

Hollie

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And that's what keeps you from seeking a relationship with the Creator?
No, I'm just curious if there is anything like a consensus among Christians?
Why should there be? Humans are subjective.

When you are ready for an honest discussion, let me know ;)
Humans are subjective, but I thought God was objective. Or at least eternal and consistent. There's only one heaven and one hell, right?

I'm only asking for information, I have no counter to the Christian view of the afterlife. I'm not a believer but I just want to know what people think is coming.
Death is coming
Thanks for stating the obvious. The question is, what, if anything, comes next?
Fat, naked babies playing harps.
 

esalla

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
Do you really believe that you are pondscum like darwin claimed
I think that it's most likely that life came to earth on an asteroid. And that that's how life spreads throughout the universe. And evolution is simply part of the universe, like gravity...
Where did the first life come from then?
The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
So how did inanimate matter fold itself in exactly the right sequence to replicate RNA, Taz?
The evolution of the universe took care of that. Maybe one day science will discover exactly what the scientific process was...
Tell me how.
Like I said, science hasn't discovered that yet.
They know exactly what had to have happened, dummy. You don't. :lol:
So link me to what science thinks. :popcorn:
Science said that nothing can move faster than light, but wait science also says that galaxies are doing just that and to correct for the error science created mythical dark matter

So tell me again what science says
Science is looking, you're not, you've settled on an invisible dude for which you have zero proof. I'll stick with science, they're headed in the right direction. You're standing still.
LOL tell us more about asteroid ponds

We await your comedy eagerly
 

esalla

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
 

Taz

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
 

esalla

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
God's existence doesn't hinge on your acceptance of His existence. Good luck blaming God for your error. You can explain to Him all the things He should have done. That should go over well.
I'm agnostic, so I'm still looking for proof either way, so you're right, nothing about god hinges on me, I'm still looking.
I still crack up every time you repeat that lie, Taz.
Don't be jealous because I didn't fall for the first made up invisible guy that I read in a book.
Lol but you believe in magic asteroids
I believe in science and science says that it's a possibility. No magic or invisible dudes needed.
If you believed in science you would believe that human life started at conception, dummy.
LOL Taz believes that life created itself in a pond on an asteroid

Because science says
Only you say that, jackass.
Actually science used to have proof that life was created from nothing in Darwins magic pond, but now since this was proven illogical asteroids did it.

What will it be next week

Yawn
 

Taz

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
God's existence doesn't hinge on your acceptance of His existence. Good luck blaming God for your error. You can explain to Him all the things He should have done. That should go over well.
I'm agnostic, so I'm still looking for proof either way, so you're right, nothing about god hinges on me, I'm still looking.
I still crack up every time you repeat that lie, Taz.
Don't be jealous because I didn't fall for the first made up invisible guy that I read in a book.
Lol but you believe in magic asteroids
I believe in science and science says that it's a possibility. No magic or invisible dudes needed.
If you believed in science you would believe that human life started at conception, dummy.
LOL Taz believes that life created itself in a pond on an asteroid

Because science says
Only you say that, jackass.
Actually science used to have proof that life was created from nothing in Darwins magic pond, but now since this was proven illogical asteroids did it.

What will it be next week

Yawn
Asteroids is a theory. Science advances by eliminating the incorrect theories. Sheesh, what's it like to be such a noob?
 

esalla

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
So if that is true the big bang was made up nonsense since science can not see that far back in time yet

To quote the local moron anyway
 

esalla

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
God's existence doesn't hinge on your acceptance of His existence. Good luck blaming God for your error. You can explain to Him all the things He should have done. That should go over well.
I'm agnostic, so I'm still looking for proof either way, so you're right, nothing about god hinges on me, I'm still looking.
I still crack up every time you repeat that lie, Taz.
Don't be jealous because I didn't fall for the first made up invisible guy that I read in a book.
Lol but you believe in magic asteroids
I believe in science and science says that it's a possibility. No magic or invisible dudes needed.
If you believed in science you would believe that human life started at conception, dummy.
LOL Taz believes that life created itself in a pond on an asteroid

Because science says
Only you say that, jackass.
Actually science used to have proof that life was created from nothing in Darwins magic pond, but now since this was proven illogical asteroids did it.

What will it be next week

Yawn
Asteroids is a theory. Science advances by eliminating the incorrect theories. Sheesh, what's it like to be such a noob?
Have you heard about the bigfoot theory, or that the first dinosaur egg came on an asteroid? Or did the asteroid kill the dinosaurs? So do asteroids bring life or end it

Rant on schizzo
 

EvilEyeFleegle

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The short answer: No. We're born, we live, we die. That's it. There is no intelligence controlling the universe.
Soon enough, you'll stand before Him, to be judged with what you've done with your life. You'll have the chance to tell Him, to His face, that He doesn't exist. I wonder if He'll find it amusing.
Just ran across this post...LOL! Judging from your posts here--and the fact that you have called yourself LDS---you best hope that the atheists are correct, otherwise....Tellestial for your ass!
 

Taz

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
So if that is true the big bang was made up nonsense since science can not see that far back in time yet

To quote the local moron anyway
It's a THEORY!!!! Science could NEVER see that far back in time. Seriously brah, if you want to debate this stuff, at least learn the basics.
 

Taz

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
God's existence doesn't hinge on your acceptance of His existence. Good luck blaming God for your error. You can explain to Him all the things He should have done. That should go over well.
I'm agnostic, so I'm still looking for proof either way, so you're right, nothing about god hinges on me, I'm still looking.
I still crack up every time you repeat that lie, Taz.
Don't be jealous because I didn't fall for the first made up invisible guy that I read in a book.
Lol but you believe in magic asteroids
I believe in science and science says that it's a possibility. No magic or invisible dudes needed.
If you believed in science you would believe that human life started at conception, dummy.
LOL Taz believes that life created itself in a pond on an asteroid

Because science says
Only you say that, jackass.
Actually science used to have proof that life was created from nothing in Darwins magic pond, but now since this was proven illogical asteroids did it.

What will it be next week

Yawn
Asteroids is a theory. Science advances by eliminating the incorrect theories. Sheesh, what's it like to be such a noob?
Have you heard about the bigfoot theory, or that the first dinosaur egg came on an asteroid? Or did the asteroid kill the dinosaurs? So do asteroids bring life or end it

Rant on schizzo
I'd be interested to know if you're this dumb, or you're simply pulling my leg. :dunno:
 

JoeMoma

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I've found that they have to repent their atheism first. I think it's hard for them to have faith in God because their atheism gets in the way.
I've never understood why it's important that others believe what you believe. Faith is a personal thing, not collective.
Well, for those that really really really really believe that all that don't believe will spend an eternity in Hell, it would be a crime not to try to convert others to SAVE them.
 

esalla

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
So if that is true the big bang was made up nonsense since science can not see that far back in time yet

To quote the local moron anyway
It's a THEORY!!!! Science could NEVER see that far back in time. Seriously brah, if you want to debate this stuff, at least learn the basics.
Your delusions are not up for debate.

So did asteroids bring life or end it?
 

Taz

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
So if that is true the big bang was made up nonsense since science can not see that far back in time yet

To quote the local moron anyway
It's a THEORY!!!! Science could NEVER see that far back in time. Seriously brah, if you want to debate this stuff, at least learn the basics.
Your delusions are not up for debate.

So did asteroids bring life or end it?
Asteroids can likely do both. Is that a problem?
 

esalla

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Why would a just God punish me for all eternity for my sincere belief that He doesn't exist? What's up with that?
I don't know that He would. Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
How do you know anything about god
Did I need to know anything about God to answer his question the way I did? Or did I only have to know what we do and how we see things to answer the question the way I did.

Did my answer disturb you?
Wouldn't god want to prove to unbelievers that he in fact does exist? Why punish someone because you never showed them proof that you exist? Seems irrational.
I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of to what He created. But the proof is in the creation. You just refuse to accept it.

Didn't I already address the punishment question? I don't know that you are being punished. He would just be giving you what you wanted. To be left alone.

Would you want to be around someone who wanted nothing to do with you? If your answer is you wouldn't, would you consider that a punishment? I mean after all, if the person doesn't want to be around you, how can you giving them what they wished for be a punishment?
As usual, you make little to no sense. So the creator desperately wants me to believe, but has nothing to prove to me, even its own existence. As for the punishment, why would it be a punishment to me to not be next to someone I don't even know exists because they have nothing to prove to me so never showed me that they exist?
You are the one saying the Creator desperately wants you to believe. Believe what? That He exists? I already answered that. I wouldn't think the creator of existence would have anything to prove, least of all to the creature He created.

Do you think that if you were capable of producing the universe and everything in it that you would have anything to prove to anyone? That's stupid. That's illogical. C'mon, man, stop thinking like an idiot.

What part of it's not a punishment if you wished for it don't you understand? He's just giving you what you want, dummy.
He's not giving me anything, because nobody has proven its existence. Asswipe.

So if god has nothing to prove, why does it send down rules for me to follow? Why not simply make its creations like it wants them to be? You cumswallower.
God's existence doesn't hinge on your acceptance of His existence. Good luck blaming God for your error. You can explain to Him all the things He should have done. That should go over well.
I'm agnostic, so I'm still looking for proof either way, so you're right, nothing about god hinges on me, I'm still looking.
I still crack up every time you repeat that lie, Taz.
Don't be jealous because I didn't fall for the first made up invisible guy that I read in a book.
Lol but you believe in magic asteroids
I believe in science and science says that it's a possibility. No magic or invisible dudes needed.
If you believed in science you would believe that human life started at conception, dummy.
LOL Taz believes that life created itself in a pond on an asteroid

Because science says
Only you say that, jackass.
Actually science used to have proof that life was created from nothing in Darwins magic pond, but now since this was proven illogical asteroids did it.

What will it be next week

Yawn
Asteroids is a theory. Science advances by eliminating the incorrect theories. Sheesh, what's it like to be such a noob?
Have you heard about the bigfoot theory, or that the first dinosaur egg came on an asteroid? Or did the asteroid kill the dinosaurs? So do asteroids bring life or end it

Rant on schizzo
I'd be interested to know if you're this dumb, or you're simply pulling my leg. :dunno:
LOL you said that life came on an asteroid, I presume you have heard about the asteroid that ended life...............

So which is it? or are you really that dumb
 

esalla

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The universe made all the ingredients. Supernovas...
That's impossible. The universe is too complex.
Everything in the universe is a product of the Big Bang, and the evolution of the universe afterwards.
Then why can the point of the big bang not be traced back to the beginning.

LOL there was no universe, then nothing just decided to explode into something

Do you really claim that this is science
Science can't see that far back in time yet.

Why Can’t We See the Big Bang? - Universe Today
So if that is true the big bang was made up nonsense since science can not see that far back in time yet

To quote the local moron anyway
It's a THEORY!!!! Science could NEVER see that far back in time. Seriously brah, if you want to debate this stuff, at least learn the basics.
Your delusions are not up for debate.

So did asteroids bring life or end it?
Asteroids can likely do both. Is that a problem?
The asteroid could also be a probe or ship sent by another civilization;

Is this a problem for you?

Yes it is because your brain can not rationalize anything out of your little bookies
 

ding

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And that's what keeps you from seeking a relationship with the Creator?
No, I'm just curious if there is anything like a consensus among Christians?
Why should there be? Humans are subjective.

When you are ready for an honest discussion, let me know ;)
Humans are subjective, but I thought God was objective. Or at least eternal and consistent. There's only one heaven and one hell, right?

I'm only asking for information, I have no counter to the Christian view of the afterlife. I'm not a believer but I just want to know what people think is coming.
My perception of God would be like an ant's perception of us. It just isn't possible to fully wrap our minds around. So my answer to your questions are based upon my sincerest effort to answer the question of origin and fully explore the possibility of mind creating the material world. It's probably not something you have ever seriously or honestly tried to do before and is the reason you are biased against the possibility of mind creating the material world.

The closest I can come to God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love which are eternal and unchanging. We know that things like logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love exist. To complete the spectrum we know the absence of those things exist as well but are not extant. So I start from the extant to describe what I believe mind to be like.

So I don't see how God could be anything but objective and if there is something which argues against this, then it is the argument itself which is in error. For instance, bad acts of men would be an illogical argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love existing. The material world is not perfect. It's full of all kinds of defects. It is the nature of the material world. To argue there is no such thing as infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love because the material world has defects doesn't make sense.

I don't know what heaven and hell is. File that as another thing we can't wrap our minds around. The closest I can can come to perceiving heaven and hell is either being eternally united or separated from infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love. I have a notion that the separation would feel like torture to us as the spirit of infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love is withdrawn from us. Some people don't realize what they have until it is taken away from them. As to the concept of reward and punishment, we can look at our own experiences as a proxy to know that reward and punishment are well founded in human behavior. But another thing is also there.... forgiveness. So it is not necessarily a binary decision. So the question of heaven and hell or reward and punishment is founded in logic but it shouldn't even enter into our calculus of how we behave (be, exist, being, etc.). So I can't understand how anyone would use heaven and hell as an argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love.

You say you are only asking for information, but my perception is that you are looking for confirmation. Confirmation of your beliefs. Why else would you care about reconciling Christian beliefs with the origin question? You are just looking for excuses not to do your own honest investigation into the origin of existence. The origin of logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love.

What does it matter what other people believe is coming? Why is that important? How does it change your thinking or your decisions?
 

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And that's what keeps you from seeking a relationship with the Creator?
No, I'm just curious if there is anything like a consensus among Christians?
Why should there be? Humans are subjective.

When you are ready for an honest discussion, let me know ;)
Humans are subjective, but I thought God was objective. Or at least eternal and consistent. There's only one heaven and one hell, right?

I'm only asking for information, I have no counter to the Christian view of the afterlife. I'm not a believer but I just want to know what people think is coming.
My perception of God would be like an ant's perception of us. It just isn't possible to fully wrap our minds around. So my answer to your questions are based upon my sincerest effort to answer the question of origin and fully explore the possibility of mind creating the material world. It's probably not something you have ever seriously or honestly tried to do before and is the reason you are biased against the possibility of mind creating the material world.

The closest I can come to God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love which are eternal and unchanging. We know that things like logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love exist. To complete the spectrum we know the absence of those things exist as well but are not extant. So I start from the extant to describe what I believe mind to be like.

So I don't see how God could be anything but objective and if there is something which argues against this, then it is the argument itself which is in error. For instance, bad acts of men would be an illogical argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love existing. The material world is not perfect. It's full of all kinds of defects. It is the nature of the material world. To argue there is no such thing as infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love because the material world has defects doesn't make sense.

I don't know what heaven and hell is. File that as another thing we can't wrap our minds around. The closest I can can come to perceiving heaven and hell is either being eternally united or separated from infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love. I have a notion that the separation would feel like torture to us as the spirit of infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love is withdrawn from us. Some people don't realize what they have until it is taken away from them. As to the concept of reward and punishment, we can look at our own experiences as a proxy to know that reward and punishment are well founded in human behavior. But another thing is also there.... forgiveness. So it is not necessarily a binary decision. So the question of heaven and hell or reward and punishment is founded in logic but it shouldn't even enter into our calculus of how we behave (be, exist, being, etc.). So I can't understand how anyone would use heaven and hell as an argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love.

You say you are only asking for information, but my perception is that you are looking for confirmation. Confirmation of your beliefs. Why else would you care about reconciling Christian beliefs with the origin question? You are just looking for excuses not to do your own honest investigation into the origin of existence. The origin of logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love.

What does it matter what other people believe is coming? Why is that important? How does it change your thinking or your decisions?
No one is ever going to read all of that

Can you wrap your mind around that?
 

ding

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And that's what keeps you from seeking a relationship with the Creator?
No, I'm just curious if there is anything like a consensus among Christians?
Why should there be? Humans are subjective.

When you are ready for an honest discussion, let me know ;)
Humans are subjective, but I thought God was objective. Or at least eternal and consistent. There's only one heaven and one hell, right?

I'm only asking for information, I have no counter to the Christian view of the afterlife. I'm not a believer but I just want to know what people think is coming.
Death is coming
Thanks for stating the obvious. The question is, what, if anything, comes next?
The evolution of consciousness.
 

ding

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And that's what keeps you from seeking a relationship with the Creator?
No, I'm just curious if there is anything like a consensus among Christians?
Why should there be? Humans are subjective.

When you are ready for an honest discussion, let me know ;)
Humans are subjective, but I thought God was objective. Or at least eternal and consistent. There's only one heaven and one hell, right?

I'm only asking for information, I have no counter to the Christian view of the afterlife. I'm not a believer but I just want to know what people think is coming.
My perception of God would be like an ant's perception of us. It just isn't possible to fully wrap our minds around. So my answer to your questions are based upon my sincerest effort to answer the question of origin and fully explore the possibility of mind creating the material world. It's probably not something you have ever seriously or honestly tried to do before and is the reason you are biased against the possibility of mind creating the material world.

The closest I can come to God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love which are eternal and unchanging. We know that things like logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love exist. To complete the spectrum we know the absence of those things exist as well but are not extant. So I start from the extant to describe what I believe mind to be like.

So I don't see how God could be anything but objective and if there is something which argues against this, then it is the argument itself which is in error. For instance, bad acts of men would be an illogical argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love existing. The material world is not perfect. It's full of all kinds of defects. It is the nature of the material world. To argue there is no such thing as infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love because the material world has defects doesn't make sense.

I don't know what heaven and hell is. File that as another thing we can't wrap our minds around. The closest I can can come to perceiving heaven and hell is either being eternally united or separated from infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love. I have a notion that the separation would feel like torture to us as the spirit of infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love is withdrawn from us. Some people don't realize what they have until it is taken away from them. As to the concept of reward and punishment, we can look at our own experiences as a proxy to know that reward and punishment are well founded in human behavior. But another thing is also there.... forgiveness. So it is not necessarily a binary decision. So the question of heaven and hell or reward and punishment is founded in logic but it shouldn't even enter into our calculus of how we behave (be, exist, being, etc.). So I can't understand how anyone would use heaven and hell as an argument against infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite goodness, infinite beauty and infinite love.

You say you are only asking for information, but my perception is that you are looking for confirmation. Confirmation of your beliefs. Why else would you care about reconciling Christian beliefs with the origin question? You are just looking for excuses not to do your own honest investigation into the origin of existence. The origin of logic, truth, goodness, beauty and love.

What does it matter what other people believe is coming? Why is that important? How does it change your thinking or your decisions?
No one is ever going to read all of that

Can you wrap your mind around that?
That's their problem.
 

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