Dobbs was the worst thing that could happen to Republicans.

[SavannahMann]

Because they tell on themselves, I bore no false witness. I have been bacvk and forth on the issue of rape incest and medical emergencies, based on the fact that it is 3% of all abortions. If you allow for just those things, rape, medical emergencies, and incest claims would simply go up falsely.

Here is my position. It’s pretty simple. As an American I believe that the Republicans were right in the Obamacare debate. Medical Decisions are between a patient and the Doctor.

As a Christian. It is between them and God. I have no call to require someone to live a more Godly life. It is not my job. In fact. It is exactly what the Bible tells us not to do. Judge not lest ye be so Judged.

God lives and loves. He loves the Trans people. The Homosexuals. And even those who have Abortions. I know this because the Bible, and my heart tell me so.

I’m also a student of history. And I can’t help but remember that historically some of our worst periods in human history were where we tried to force what a handful believed was right and Godly on the masses. The Inquisition is the obvious and worst example. But hardly the only one.

So no. I don’t see where it is my business in either secular or religious terms.

 

[Frankenstein]

I asked what consequence is it to you because as Saint Ray From Cleveland said: It’s none of your business what her consequences are and Saint Ray is a Republican who lives in a state where women want their liberty and don’t want angry white extremist Christian sticking your nose into their uterus’s business.

The Great GOP Rift is well on the way.

nf.23.11.17 #740 to frnknstn.23.11.17
#736

Then keep men from sticking their business, into your business, so you don't have to worry about killing a human baby

 

[Frankenstein]

Here is my position. It’s pretty simple. As an American I believe that the Republicans were right in the Obamacare debate. Medical Decisions are between a patient and the Doctor.

As a Christian. It is between them and God. I have no call to require someone to live a more Godly life. It is not my job. In fact. It is exactly what the Bible tells us not to do. Judge not lest ye be so Judged.

God lives and loves. He loves the Trans people. The Homosexuals. And even those who have Abortions. I know this because the Bible, and my heart tell me so.

I’m also a student of history. And I can’t help but remember that historically some of our worst periods in human history were where we tried to force what a handful believed was right and Godly on the masses. The Inquisition is the obvious and worst example. But hardly the only one.

So no. I don’t see where it is my business in either secular or religious terms.

God does not love sin. What does the Bible mean when it says, “Do not judge”? | GotQuestions.org
Ah Judge not the most quoted and misinterpreted verse in the Bible
Jesus’ command not to judge others could be the most widely quoted of His sayings, even though it is almost invariably quoted in complete disregard of its context. Here is Jesus’ statement: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). Many people use this verse in an attempt to silence their critics, interpreting Jesus’ meaning as “You don’t have the right to tell me I’m wrong.” Taken in isolation, Jesus’ command “Do not judge” does indeed seem to preclude all negative assessments. However, there is much more to the passage than those three words.

The Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean we cannot show discernment. Immediately after Jesus says, “Do not judge,” He says, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs” (Matthew 7:6). A little later in the same sermon, He says, “Watch out for false prophets. . . . By their fruit you will recognize them” (verses 15–16). How are we to discern who are the “dogs” and “pigs” and “false prophets” unless we have the ability to make a judgment call on doctrines and deeds? Jesus is giving us permission to tell right from wrong.

Also, the Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean all actions are equally moral or that truth is relative. The Bible clearly teaches that truth is objective, eternal, and inseparable from God’s character. Anything that contradicts the truth is a lie—but, of course, to call something a “lie” is to pass judgment. To call adultery or murder a sin is likewise to pass judgment—but it’s also to agree with God. When Jesus said not to judge others, He did not mean that no one can identify sin for what it is, based on God’s definition of sin.

And the Bible’s command that we not judge others does not mean there should be no mechanism for dealing with sin. The Bible has a whole book entitled Judges. The judges in the Old Testament were raised up by God Himself (Judges 2:18). The modern judicial system, including its judges, is a necessary part of society. In saying, “Do not judge,” Jesus was not saying, “Anything goes.”

Elsewhere, Jesus gives a direct command to judge: “Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly” (John 7:24). Here we have a clue as to the right type of judgment versus the wrong type. Taking this verse and some others, we can put together a description of the sinful type of judgment:

Superficial judgment is wrong. Passing judgment on someone based solely on appearances is sinful (John 7:24). It is foolish to jump to conclusions before investigating the facts (Proverbs 18:13). Simon the Pharisee passed judgment on a woman based on her appearance and reputation, but he could not see that the woman had been forgiven; Simon thus drew Jesus’ rebuke for his unrighteous judgment (Luke 7:36–50).

Hypocritical judgment is wrong. Jesus’ command not to judge others in Matthew 7:1 is preceded by comparisons to hypocrites (Matthew 6:2, 5, 16) and followed by a warning against hypocrisy (Matthew 7:3–5). When we point out the sin of others while we ourselves commit the same sin, we condemn ourselves (Romans 2:1).

Harsh, unforgiving judgment is wrong. We are “always to be gentle toward everyone” (Titus 3:2). It is the merciful who will be shown mercy (Matthew 5:7), and, as Jesus warned, “In the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Matthew 7:2).

 

[NotfooledbyW]

God does not love sin. What does the Bible mean when it says, “Do not judge”? | GotQuestions.org
Ah Judge not the most quoted and misinterpreted verse in the Bible

Am am I living in the United States of America under the jurisdiction of the United States Constitution? Or or did the constitution get replaced by the Holy Bible.

 

[Frankenstein]

Am am I living in the United States of America under the jurisdiction of the United States Constitution? Or or did the constitution get replaced by the Holy Bible.

Murder of innocence is immoral whether you subscribe to the Bible or not. Sick of you people who suppress their innate knowledge of God, and the moral code that is imprinted on your soul, you know it's wrong but you want to be some kind of SJW

 

[HeyNorm]

Murder of innocence is immoral whether you subscribe to the Bible or not. Sick of you people who suppress their innate knowledge of God, and the moral code that is imprinted on your soul, you know it's wrong but you want to be some kind of SJW

He wouldn’t care if it’s right or wrong. He just wants to make you angry discussing religion.

Ask him why, if it’s just a valueless clump of cells, why the man should be the only one obligated to support it.

He gets mighty quiet.

 

[Frankenstein]

He wouldn’t care if it’s right or wrong. He just wants to make you angry discussing religion.

Ask him why, if it’s just a valueless clump of cells, why the man should be the only one obligated to support it.

He gets mighty quiet.

Yeah, I know and they hate the unequal protection of the mans rights too, they have no answer for it, so it's just well he doesn't carry it, or he doesn't get pregnant, they know they have no leg to stand on so they just throw SJW arguments at it

 

[JoeB131]

But then we aren't talking about miscarriage, we are talking about irresponsibility, and then murder!

But how can we tell the abortions from the miscarriages without an investigation? Especially when the OB/GYNs who are certifying the miscarriage are the same ones who were performing the abortions before you wank-fantasy ban.

The fact that the child is equally the fathers means he should get equal protection under the law for his rights, you guys want to play the game but have the field uneven so up your you smarmy bastard.

Except they aren't equal. The man donates about five minutes of his time and a single sperm cell. The woman is donating her body for nine months as an incubator and a lifetime of health issues related to pregnancy. So of course, she is going to have more of a say.

As I said I would have no abortions, but was willing to make an exception because I knew what your barbaqric arse would say, ghoul!

Could you please let me know why you're willing to make an exception unless you know your position is outrageous to start with?

Let's be honest, BOTH sides use these extreme cases to advocate their positions. But late trimester abortions are less than 1% of abortions performed, and abortions for rape and incest are even less than that.

The vast majority of abortions are performed before a woman is showing, before viability, in a pregnancy that happened because she had sex she completely consented to.

While I do get some perverse glee in watching how much legal abortion upsets religious assholes, my position on the subject is pragmatic. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way not to be pregnant. We can see that in the Philippines, where they have exactly the kinds of laws you want, but have 500k to 800K illegal abortions every year. (With about 4000 women a year being injured in the process.) This isn't a problem where laws are going to make things better, probably much, much worse.

 

[HeyNorm]

I asked what consequence is it to you because as Saint Ray From Cleveland said: It’s none of your business what her consequences are and Saint Ray is a Republican who lives in a state where women want their liberty and don’t want angry white extremist Christian sticking your nose into their uterus’s business.

The Great GOP Rift is well on the way.

nf.23.11.17 #740 to frnknstn.23.11.17
#736

But Men don’t have a right to liberty?

Please explain.

 

[Frankenstein]

But how can we tell the abortions from the miscarriages without an investigation? Especially when the OB/GYNs who are certifying the miscarriage are the same ones who were performing the abortions before you wank-fantasy ban.



Except they aren't equal. The man donates about five minutes of his time and a single sperm cell. The woman is donating her body for nine months as an incubator and a lifetime of health issues related to pregnancy. So of course, she is going to have more of a say.


Could you please let me know why you're willing to make an exception unless you know your position is outrageous to start with?

Let's be honest, BOTH sides use these extreme cases to advocate their positions. But late trimester abortions are less than 1% of abortions performed, and abortions for rape and incest are even less than that.

The vast majority of abortions are performed before a woman is showing, before viability, in a pregnancy that happened because she had sex she completely consented to.

While I do get some perverse glee in watching how much legal abortion upsets religious assholes, my position on the subject is pragmatic. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way not to be pregnant. We can see that in the Philippines, where they have exactly the kinds of laws you want, but have 500k to 800K illegal abortions every year. (With about 4000 women a year being injured in the process.) This isn't a problem where laws are going to make things better, probably much, much worse.

It really comsw down to don't get pregnant if you do be a decent human being and raise the child instead of using abortion as birth control you ass

 

[NotfooledbyW]

But Men don’t have a right to liberty?

When has a state banned a male medical reproductive procedure like vasectomy that men want to have.

If Vigano or Schlafly Catholics ever take over a state and criminalize vasectomy then you’d have a liberty issue for men to fight against extremist religion in our government depriving men of a similar liberty to abortion.

Men do not have liberty to put a baby on the public square and walk away like a deadbeat fucker would do.

 

[hjmick]

Before Dobbs, the Republicans could placate the Religious Right and Social Conservatives by speaking out against Abortion. This was essentially harmless. With Roe as the law of the land, there was no hope of actually doing anything. And best of all, the Republicans couldn’t be blamed for doing nothing. The Supreme Court had ruled and the poor politicians were powerless to do anything about it.

So some fool in the audience screams that “Abortion is Murder” and the politician could agree and lament about how awful it was and it’s a shame the Supremes gave us this awful ruling.

Then Dobbs came and the Republicans got what they said they wanted. Only, it’s not going the way they wanted.

Abortions After Dobbs

The number of legal abortions has held steady, if not increased, after the Supreme Court’s ruling.

www.nytimes.com

Abortions have remained the same, and indications are that there has been an increase since Dobbs.

So the stated goal to stop abortions, has failed. They are about the same and even possibly increasing. So the “have to save lives” mentality is taking it right on the nose.

For decades polling indicated that most people supported a woman’s right to choose. The Anti Abortion people swore that these were push polls. They were fiction. These polls were lies. A vast majority wanted to save the unborn babies.

Even when Abortion was an issue in an election, the Republican would win. But nobody stopped to consider it might be because the voters didn’t think the politician could do anything about the issue.

Now of course we are in a post Dobbs world. The problem is that the Republicans don’t know what to do. It turns out the polls were right. The majority of voters actually are pro choice. In the meantime the Republicans have become defined by fierce opposition to Abortion.

It is worse for Trump. He proudly announced he had done this. He had packed the court with anti abortion Judges who overturned Roe.

The Republicans are now demanding that the important issues, the ones that matter are the economy, and immigration, and the deficit. The voters appear to think Abortion is pretty important.

Second worst thing to happen to the GOP... second...

 

[1miseryindex]

. It turns out the polls were right. The majority of voters actually are pro choice. In the meantime the Republicans have become defined by fierce opposition to Abortion.

You are highly misled. You don't seem to be able to analyze information well.

Most Americans ARE against abortion, at least after a certain gestational age. But you just zip over that known fact to spew your opinions as though said opinions were facts.

In OH, voters got their Constitution changed so that 60 votes were no longer required to change the Constitution. If that 60 vote limit had been kept, the pro-abortionists would not have succeeded. i frankly think NO state should have a less than 60 vote requirement for changing their Constitutions. But the left are devious as hell

 

[g5000]

Before Dobbs, the Republicans could placate the Religious Right and Social Conservatives by speaking out against Abortion. This was essentially harmless. With Roe as the law of the land, there was no hope of actually doing anything. And best of all, the Republicans couldn’t be blamed for doing nothing. The Supreme Court had ruled and the poor politicians were powerless to do anything about it.

So some fool in the audience screams that “Abortion is Murder” and the politician could agree and lament about how awful it was and it’s a shame the Supremes gave us this awful ruling.

Then Dobbs came and the Republicans got what they said they wanted. Only, it’s not going the way they wanted.

Abortions After Dobbs

The number of legal abortions has held steady, if not increased, after the Supreme Court’s ruling.

www.nytimes.com

Abortions have remained the same, and indications are that there has been an increase since Dobbs.

So the stated goal to stop abortions, has failed. They are about the same and even possibly increasing. So the “have to save lives” mentality is taking it right on the nose.

For decades polling indicated that most people supported a woman’s right to choose. The Anti Abortion people swore that these were push polls. They were fiction. These polls were lies. A vast majority wanted to save the unborn babies.

Even when Abortion was an issue in an election, the Republican would win. But nobody stopped to consider it might be because the voters didn’t think the politician could do anything about the issue.

Now of course we are in a post Dobbs world. The problem is that the Republicans don’t know what to do. It turns out the polls were right. The majority of voters actually are pro choice. In the meantime the Republicans have become defined by fierce opposition to Abortion.

It is worse for Trump. He proudly announced he had done this. He had packed the court with anti abortion Judges who overturned Roe.

The Republicans are now demanding that the important issues, the ones that matter are the economy, and immigration, and the deficit. The voters appear to think Abortion is pretty important.

If you go back through my posts all the way to the beginning of my coming to this forum, I stated unequivocally hundreds of times that the incidence of abortions would remain unchanged were Roe v. Wade overturned.


TA-DAAAAAAAAA!

 

[1miseryindex]

Murder of innocence is immoral whether you subscribe to the Bible or not. Sick of you people who suppress their innate knowledge of God, and the moral code that is imprinted on your soul, you know it's wrong but you want to be some kind of SJW

very interesting comment. I've had thesame thought for a long time ("..suppress their innate knowledge of God" etc).

Yep, they know they do wrong but apparently they are killing whatever conscience they still have/may have.

What is SJW?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It really comsw [sic] down to don't get pregnant if you do be a decent human being and raise the child instead of using abortion as birth control you ass

Or, put the child up for adoption. That's how I have a sister, along with a niece, four nephews, and I'm not now sure how many grandnephews.

 

[HeyNorm]

When has a state banned a male medical reproductive procedure like vasectomy that men want to have.

If Vigano or Schlafly Catholics ever take over a state and criminalize vasectomy then you’d have a liberty issue for men to fight against extremist religion in our government depriving men of a similar liberty to abortion.

Men do not have liberty to put a baby on the public square and walk away like a deadbeat fucker would do.

Funny how killing doesn’t make a mother evil, but a man refusing to support a woman’s poor choices is.

Explain.

 

[Rawley]

When has a state banned a male medical reproductive procedure like vasectomy that men want to have.

If Vigano or Schlafly Catholics ever take over a state and criminalize vasectomy then you’d have a liberty issue for men to fight against extremist religion in our government depriving men of a similar liberty to abortion.

Men do not have liberty to put a baby on the public square and walk away like a deadbeat fucker would do.

Odd way of saying abortion = birth control

 

[HeyNorm]

Odd way of saying abortion = birth control

And if the woman doesn’t avail herself of it? The man should not be obligated to child support.

Her choice. She wanted it, she got it.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You are highly misled. You don't seem to be able to analyze information well.

Most Americans ARE against abortion, at least after a certain gestational age. But you just zip over that known fact to spew your opinions as though said opinions were facts.

In OH, voters got their Constitution changed so that 60 votes were no longer required to change the Constitution. If that 60 vote limit had been kept, the pro-abortionists would not have succeeded. i frankly think NO state should have a less than 60 vote requirement for changing their Constitutions. But the left are devious as hell

Odd way of saying abortion = birth control

Dobbs Black Robed Catholic Supremes didn’t say anything about Baby Fetus getting a 10 point advantage when the states are deciding that abortion as birth control is none of the state’s business.