Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[martybegan]

The gun show loophole exists, because violent feolons are people too, and they have human rights!

Liberals say that all the time. What they lose are certain consitutional rights, such as the right to bear arms, and the right to vote (depending on the state).

Its progressives that usually try to prevent us from executing the bastards based on "human rights"

 

[OKTexas]

This is what happens when the gungrabbers get to control the language on the issue.

There isn't a single of those weapons on that list that is a fully automatic weapon. Everyone of those is an Ugly and Scary looking, Semi-Automatic.

Hell, I saw a shotgun on Saturday that nearly made me wet my pants. Scary wasn't the word for how this damn thing looked.

It terrified me.

But it was still a Semi-Automatic. In all reality it was no different than other semi-automatic shot gun, it was cosmetically ugly, mechanically normal.

It has nothing to do with how they 'look'. It has to do with the vast amount of human carnage they inflict in a very, very short time span.

Here is how a Police Chief explains the true purpose of a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle before Congress:

"We use that weapon in police because of its technical capability, it's ability to cool down and handle round after round after round ... It's rugged...it's meant for a combat or environment that one would be placed in facing adversaries, human beings, people. That weapon can be retrofitted with other devices to enhance your offensive capability. The weapon itself has features to adjust it -- optics sights, for example -- that can cost hundreds of dollars, and I've shot this weapon many times -- that would enhance our capability in various tactical maneuvers, whether [you're firing] from the shoulder or the hip or whether you choose to spray fire that weapon or individually shoot from the shoulder. The optic sights are amazing, the technology advances that weapon has.

That weapon is the weapon of our time. It’s the place that we find ourselves in today. And, certainly, I believe it’s meant for the battlefield and in a public safety environment only."

So guns for him and his, and not for us. He can go to hell.

Any guns not allowed to the citizens of the US should not be allowed to its police forces. If we only want the military to have them, only the military should have them. Police are peace officers, and still civillans.

Yep, if the police need them to deal with criminals, citizens need them for the same reason. Damn simple concept.

 

[Vast LWC]

Do you have any proof to back up your claim that "most private sales are conducted between friends"?

You asked a question I answered your question. Now you want some kind of proof? You really didn't want an answer did you?

You answered my question with an unsubstantiated statement, which is not an answer.

 

[Vast LWC]

Sigh.

The report starts with the claim that gun shows are an important avenue in gun trafficking, and then reports that only 2% of felons actually in prison had a gun that was in any way tied to a gun show.

That is 2%.

I wasn't referencing the opinions of the study's authors, which are suspect.

I was referencing their data, which is not.

As I stated previously, the "Gun Show Loophole" is a misnomer, as private sales occur everywhere without documentation or background checks, not just at Gun Shows.

 

[Vast LWC]

And criminals will obey all of that.

It's not important whether criminals will obey anything.

What's important is that the people selling guns to said criminals realize that there will be severe consequences if they continue to do so, thus stopping the majority of criminals from getting the guns in the first place.

 

[Vast LWC]

That study says that gun shows account for less than 10% of all gun sales. It then estimates that 66% of sales at gun shows are made by licensed dealers.

That would mean that 3.4% of guns sold in this country do not go through background checks. That is slightly less than the 40% figure you are attempting to defend.

It then goes on to reference the same 20 year old numbers from the ATF that you insist prove your point.

It also states that 85% of guns used in crimes were resold through private sales at least once.

That's 85%.

Talk about a meaningless stat...A weapon coud've been bought and sold numerous times by dealers, but it's the one time that it's sold privately that gives you that ridiculously, ergo meaninglessly, high number.

It's not meaningless at all, since the point where it's sold through a private sale is the point in the chain of sales where the new owner becomes unknown.

Do you feel a criminal or a potential criminal would want a gun that can immediately be traced to him, or not?

Since your side often brings up the point that much of gun violence is performed by "Gang Bangers", where do you think they get their guns? Licensed Dealers?

 

[Gadawg73]

I question why you didn't prove it.



Source: ASSAULT WEAPON

This is what happens when the gungrabbers get to control the language on the issue.

There isn't a single of those weapons on that list that is a fully automatic weapon. Everyone of those is an Ugly and Scary looking, Semi-Automatic.

Hell, I saw a shotgun on Saturday that nearly made me wet my pants. Scary wasn't the word for how this damn thing looked.

It terrified me.

But it was still a Semi-Automatic. In all reality it was no different than other semi-automatic shot gun, it was cosmetically ugly, mechanically normal.

It has nothing to do with how they 'look'. It has to do with the vast amount of human carnage they inflict in a very, very short time span.

Here is how a Police Chief explains the true purpose of a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle before Congress:

"We use that weapon in police because of its technical capability, it's ability to cool down and handle round after round after round ... It's rugged...it's meant for a combat or environment that one would be placed in facing adversaries, human beings, people. That weapon can be retrofitted with other devices to enhance your offensive capability. The weapon itself has features to adjust it -- optics sights, for example -- that can cost hundreds of dollars, and I've shot this weapon many times -- that would enhance our capability in various tactical maneuvers, whether [you're firing] from the shoulder or the hip or whether you choose to spray fire that weapon or individually shoot from the shoulder. The optic sights are amazing, the technology advances that weapon has.

That weapon is the weapon of our time. It’s the place that we find ourselves in today. And, certainly, I believe it’s meant for the battlefield and in a public safety environment only."

Gasoline and a match would make a lot of "carnage".
THE LAW is what determines what is legal and what isn't and under the law it is a semi automatic rifle.
What amazes me is the allure to the naive and gullible of decreasing the magazine capacity.
Uh, HELLO, then they carry 8 more mags which take 2 seconds to unload after the 10 round mag is empty.
Amazing the ignorance of those that believe more gun laws, not prosecution of the criminals we now have that get off easy when they violate CURRENT gun laws, mysteriously solves everything.
Any and all prohibitions on any gun that is owned by a law abiding citizen does NOTHING to stop gun deaths.
All it does is make it easier for criminals to commit crimes against citizens that have their rights taken away.

 

[Vast LWC]

Better question: Why are dealers and law abiding citizens put through the whole background check Kabuki dance, when it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals?

The only reason it's "it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals" is because of the very loopholes we're referring to, and because Congress has made specific legislation that makes it almost impossible to enforce existing regulation.

Then I would suggest that you have a severe, quite possibly debilitating, case of myopia.

Perhaps in your Bizarro-world universe. But here in the real world, that's the only reason I can see.

 

[Gadawg73]

It also states that 85% of guns used in crimes were resold through private sales at least once.

That's 85%.

Talk about a meaningless stat...A weapon coud've been bought and sold numerous times by dealers, but it's the one time that it's sold privately that gives you that ridiculously, ergo meaninglessly, high number.

It's not meaningless at all, since the point where it's sold through a private sale is the point in the chain of sales where the new owner becomes unknown.

Do you feel a criminal or a potential criminal would want a gun that can immediately be traced to him, or not?

Since your side often brings up the point that much of gun violence is performed by "Gang Bangers", where do you think they get their guns? Licensed Dealers?

How is your idea working with the tracking of EVERY vehicle in America?
Car thefts are at an all time high.
HELLO

 

[Vast LWC]

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

Well there's a massive red herring.

Tell me, what percentage of the guns out there do you feel were "Built from scratch"?

.001%?

 

[Vast LWC]

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

Well that is just altogether false.

New York City is one of the safest large cities to live in in the nation, and it has very strict gun control laws.

Missouri doesn't have a particularly strict set of Gun Laws, as far as I know, and is is the most dangerous city in the nation.

Virginia has basically no gun laws, and Richmond is regularly in the top 10 most dangerous cities.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How stupid can the gun control advocates get? This is comical.

Taking a look at the OP's prior work - this is just the tip of the stupud iceberg.

 

[Spoonman]

ban guns, criminals will just make their own. it's easy

 

[Spoonman]

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

Well that is just altogether false.

New York City is one of the safest large cities to live in in the nation, and it has very strict gun control laws.

Missouri doesn't have a particularly strict set of Gun Laws, as far as I know, and is is the most dangerous city in the nation.

Virginia has basically no gun laws, and Richmond is regularly in the top 10 most dangerous cities.

so NY's like 450 gun homicides don't count for anything?

 

[Vandalshandle]

The gun show loophole exists, because violent feolons are people too, and they have human rights!

Liberals say that all the time. What they lose are certain consitutional rights, such as the right to bear arms, and the right to vote (depending on the state).

Its progressives that usually try to prevent us from executing the bastards based on "human rights"

But, of course, if law enforcement actually is given a tool (such as required registration) to enforce the law forbidding gun sales without background checks that would prevent violent criminals from walking into the civic center gun show and walking out with an AR-15, the NRA and others begin wringing their hands and screaming, "They are going to come in the middle of the night and take our guns away!"

 

[The Rabbi]

And criminals will obey all of that.

It's not important whether criminals will obey anything.

What's important is that the people selling guns to said criminals realize that there will be severe consequences if they continue to do so, thus stopping the majority of criminals from getting the guns in the first place.

The people selling guns to criminals are themselves criminals. Or did you miss that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Better question: Why are dealers and law abiding citizens put through the whole background check Kabuki dance, when it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals?

The only reason it's "it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals" is because of the very loopholes we're referring to, and because Congress has made specific legislation that makes it almost impossible to enforce existing regulation.

Then I would suggest that you have a severe, quite possibly debilitating, case of myopia.

Perhaps in your Bizarro-world universe. But here in the real world, that's the only reason I can see.

No, actually it's because there are 300M +/- guns already in circulation and no way to keep tabs on them.
But thanks for trying.

 

[The Rabbi]

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

Well that is just altogether false.

New York City is one of the safest large cities to live in in the nation, and it has very strict gun control laws.

Missouri doesn't have a particularly strict set of Gun Laws, as far as I know, and is is the most dangerous city in the nation.

Virginia has basically no gun laws, and Richmond is regularly in the top 10 most dangerous cities.

Actually DC is the most dangerous, with the strictest gun laws pretty much in the country. Chicago ranks up there.
But we dont need to play this game. Look at two cities with identical gun laws and disparate records on gun crime: Memphis TN and Knoxville TN. Memphis has a crime rate about 80% higher than Knoxville, even with the same laws. Why? Because laws are no deterrent to crime. Culture is.

 

[Coyote]

The registration is for tax purposes, not to determine if you own one or not. Also the "registrstration" is not limited in any way. Anyone can own a house. If you were to treat gun ownership like house ownership in some states only the police and government officals would be able to own houses without a waiting period or onerous requirements.

For the cars, if you have enough property you dont need to register a car. The cases you talk about are probably when parked in a driveway with ACESSS ONLY to public roads. There is a difference.

The purpose of registration is irrelevant. The fact is, you must register houses, cars and guns with the government in some fashion for different reasons. Since they are different objects used for different purposes, it stands to reason the purpose for registration would be different as well.

Who buys a car to drive around ONLY on all their acreage? A tractor maybe or a 4-wheel drive to wrangle cattle or something but regardless of all that, you still have to take a written test and a driving test to obtain a license to operate a vehicle whether you drive on your property or on the roads. And don't tell me that tractor or cattle-wrangling 4-wheel isn't going to drive down a public road at some point.

No comment on alcohol or voting requirements even though they are guaranteed by the Constitution? That's the real argument here.

A liscense is only required for public roads, just like a CCW permit can be required for public use of a firearm.

And I have never heard of "registration" for a house. All you need to do is give the address and your name so the property tax can be paid.

Alcohol is NOT guaranteed by the consitution. It leaves regulation of alchol specifically to the states and localities. Read the amendment. Voting rights are also left to the states, with floor limits set that say you cannot deny voting rights based on race sex, or age after the age of 18.


Arms are left to the PEOPLE.

Sort of.

Because it's a constitutional right, regulating that right is tricky especially when you try to make comparisons to gunlaws in other countries. I don't think any other country guarantees it as a right.

However - no constitutional right is unlimited - not a single one. I don't think firearms should be any different than any other right.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The gun show loophole exists, because violent feolons are people too, and they have human rights!

Liberals say that all the time. What they lose are certain consitutional rights, such as the right to bear arms, and the right to vote (depending on the state).
Its progressives that usually try to prevent us from executing the bastards based on "human rights"

But, of course, if law enforcement actually is given a tool (such as required registration) to enforce the law forbidding gun sales without background checks that would prevent violent criminals from walking into the civic center gun show and walking out with an AR-15, the NRA and others begin wringing their hands and screaming, "They are going to come in the middle of the night and take our guns away!"

Good to see that you're willing to admit that UBC requires universal registration, and that universal registration was the intent all along.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/277079-universal-background-checks.html