Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

 

[forkup]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Before starting with elaborate theories one should look at the name...

National SOCIALISM.

I completely agree. NATIONAL socialism. They are Nationalists before they are Socialists, a particularly nasty form of Nationalism to boot.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

excuse me,,,but the republican party doesnt support free market,,they support government controlled capitalism,,which puts them firmly to the left of the constitution not the right,,,

 

[bripat9643]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

Socialism and communism are totalitarian.
Thats all that matters

Really? I live in a social Democracy, pretty sure I vote for my elected officials. In fact, since my choices of parties who have a realistic chance of getting power isn't restricted to 2, I would argue my form of government is less authoritarian than yours.

As far as I know, no American politician has ever claimed the US should turn to Communism. Quite a few would like a social Democracy.

Well the duopoly is private. And the voters keep it alive. Not the government.
I thought social democracies were different from socialism?
You statists need to keep your stuff strait, bro.

I would keep it straight if you guys had any interest in sticking to an actual definition. Tell me Harley, how many times have you claimed Bernie is a Communist? Or the entire Democratic party without EVER not EVER acknowledging that not a single one has ever claimed they want to emulate Communism? In fact, I've noticed that every single person on the right on this board routinely interchanges, Communist, Socialist, and Democrat. While they all are certainly not the same. So if you don't feel the need to differentiate between those terms why should I not simply lump Social Democracy in there too and see how well the US compares to that?

You were being technical. In the next post to me, you claim there is no need to be.
Ay caramba

I didn't realize correcting the assertion that all forms of Socialism are authoritarian was "technical". The fact of the matter simply is that the right has deliberately muddled the meaning of Socialism so they could start to equate it to Communism. Socialism, actual Socialism has been the driving force for stuff like the abolishing of child labor, Universal Suffrage, affordable healthcare, a 5 day work week etc. etc. You can, as I do condemn Communism because that DOES seem to invariably turn to authoritarianism. But that's a condemnation of authoritarianism, not the idea that the community should share its resources. But do me a favor don't try to come to me and say I'm inconsistent in my definition of Socialism.

I live in a Social Democracy, meaning that my country recognizes as does yours by the way just to a lesser extent than society as a whole does have a responsibility to help its weaker members. That IS Socialism. I don't know what your position is on that, how far you are willing to state that people have to be able to take care of themselves but chances are, you recognize that you have at least some responsibility to society at large.

Utter horseshit. Socialist propaganda. Socialism didn't eliminate child labor. Capitalism did. Child labor ended when the productivity of labor increased to the point where parents didn't have to put their children to work to keep the family from starving. By the time legislation was adopted, child labor had already pretty much ended. We don't have affordable healthcare, and all government meddling has done is make it more expensive. Henry Ford pretty much created the 40 hour work week. Other companies had to follow suit to compete with Ford.

Communism is just socialism that its adherents are serious about enforcing. Socialism is inherently authoritarian. Socialism is about government control of your means of earning a living. How could that be anything but authoritarian?

Your country is probably almost as capitalist as the USA. Whenever you ask a so-called socialist to point out a successful example of their program, they always point at a largely capitalist country with welfare programs.

Child Labor read this, you might just learn something true. Mind you the US was slow to the party when it came the child labor laws. The first ones were put on the books in Europe as early as 1874 by... and here it is Socialist legislators.

Leftwing propaganda that doesn't contradict what I posted.

Types of socialism - Wikipedia

This is what I hate the most about this argument. Dishonest people (I don't know a different way to describe it) often resort to broad brushing all types of Socialism into one convenient pot , the one of Communism. The basis of Socialism is equality the exact opposite of authoritarianism. It is the idea that society as a whole should share their wealth, not take but share. It doesn't say anywhere the share should even be equal.

That's all bullshit propaganda. Socialism is government control of the economy. The variations on it simply aren't important. Either you support a market economy or a government run economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_democracy

Dishonest people also commonly seem to change their minds on what Socialism is. depending on the situation. If Bernie calls for universal healthcare he's a Communist. When it's pointed out to them that other countries have Universal Healthcare they are Communist. When it's pointed out to them that those societies are stable and successful, all of a sudden they are Capitalist.

Twaddle.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Before starting with elaborate theories one should look at the name...

National SOCIALISM.

I completely agree. NATIONAL socialism. They are Nationalists before they are Socialists, a particularly nasty form of Nationalism to boot.

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Norman]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Before starting with elaborate theories one should look at the name...

National SOCIALISM.

I completely agree. NATIONAL socialism. They are Nationalists before they are Socialists, a particularly nasty form of Nationalism to boot.

Fuckup, they are socialists at national level.

Unlike the communists, they don't try to make every nation socialist, they conquer every nation and force socialism on them.

Socialism is always a bad idea.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

no, they (conservatives) do NOT!

they actually truly believe that if you are not hard core right wing fascist nazi then you MUST BE a COMMY/SOCIALIST/American Hating FASCIST/NAZI.....

they are deranged


and they are HUMAN SCUM

 

[forkup]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

If all that matters is how it is perceived today you are shit out of luck. Since the only place, you'll find your particular classification of Nazism are memes posted by conservatives in the US, and this only recently. The rest of the world refers to nazism as extreme-right on the spectrum. Or are you arguing that when you mean perception only YOUR perception is what defines something?

 

[anynameyouwish]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

you are merely regurgitating right wing propaganda. you are just too stupid to realize it. YOU are HUMAN GARBAGE!

 

[forkup]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Before starting with elaborate theories one should look at the name...

National SOCIALISM.

I completely agree. NATIONAL socialism. They are Nationalists before they are Socialists, a particularly nasty form of Nationalism to boot.

Fuckup, they are socialists at national level.

Unlike the communists, they don't try to make every nation socialist, they conquer every nation and force socialism on them.

Socialism is always a bad idea.

Norman, I don't mind conversating with people I disagree with, it's the reason I'm here. But if the person I'm conversating with can't show me the basic courtesy of not resorting to name-calling I lose interest. You want to discuss, let's discuss if you want to trade insults find someone else who has the mental ability of a 6-year-old. Choose please, just know that only one choice will get a reply.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

excuse me,,,but the republican party doesnt support free market,,they support government controlled capitalism,,which puts them firmly to the left of the constitution not the right,,,

Of course, there are plenty of douchebag establishment Republicans who don't really believe in the free market, but they are politicians, not ideologues.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Before starting with elaborate theories one should look at the name...

National SOCIALISM.

I completely agree. NATIONAL socialism. They are Nationalists before they are Socialists, a particularly nasty form of Nationalism to boot.

Fuckup, they are socialists at national level.

Unlike the communists, they don't try to make every nation socialist, they conquer every nation and force socialism on them.

Socialism is always a bad idea.

Norman, I don't mind conversating with people I disagree with, it's the reason I'm here. But if the person I'm conversating with can't show me the basic courtesy of not resorting to name-calling I lose interest. You want to discuss, let's discuss if you want to trade insults find someone else who has the mental ability of a 6-year-old. Choose please, just know that only one choice will get a reply.

When you label anyone who supports the market as a bigot who supports genocide, then you have earned my contempt. Your belief that I should support such a definition only shows what a stupid piece of shit you are.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

excuse me,,,but the republican party doesnt support free market,,they support government controlled capitalism,,which puts them firmly to the left of the constitution not the right,,,

Of course, there are plenty of douchebag establishment Republicans who don't really believe in the free market, but they are politicians, not ideologues.

by plenty you mean most of them for decades,,,

that means the party as a whole opposes it,,,

sorry but the GOP are left wing and moving more left daily,,,

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

If all that matters is how it is perceived today you are shit out of luck. Since the only place, you'll find your particular classification of Nazism are memes posted by conservatives in the US, and this only recently. The rest of the world refers to nazism as extreme-right on the spectrum. Or are you arguing that when you mean perception only YOUR perception is what defines something?

What you mean is that leftwing intellectuals have been perpetuating that lie ever since the war. "leftwing" refers to people who support socialism, and that's what Nazis are. According to you, rightwing, means you're bigot who supports genocide.

Go fuck yourself, douchebag.

 

[bripat9643]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

excuse me,,,but the republican party doesnt support free market,,they support government controlled capitalism,,which puts them firmly to the left of the constitution not the right,,,

Of course, there are plenty of douchebag establishment Republicans who don't really believe in the free market, but they are politicians, not ideologues.

by plenty you mean most of them for decades,,,

that means the party as a whole opposes it,,,

sorry but the GOP are left wing and moving more left daily,,,

I said what I mean. That's the end of the discussion.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

excuse me,,,but the republican party doesnt support free market,,they support government controlled capitalism,,which puts them firmly to the left of the constitution not the right,,,

Of course, there are plenty of douchebag establishment Republicans who don't really believe in the free market, but they are politicians, not ideologues.

by plenty you mean most of them for decades,,,

that means the party as a whole opposes it,,,

sorry but the GOP are left wing and moving more left daily,,,

I said what I mean. That's the end of the discussion.

which was denial in the face of a fact,,,

have a nice day,,,

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

we can start with they vote for a party thats to the left of the constitution,,,

bigger government,,,

Name how conservatives want what is "left of the constitution"?

I'm going to keep asking until you answer me.

bigger government than the constitution allows,,,

can you say 'PATRIOT ACT"???

I havent heard back from you,,,
anything else you would like to know???

Believe it or not, I don't spend all day on forums. I have a life.

What part of the Patriot Act do you have an issue with? I really don't have an issue with the Patriot Act.

 

[forkup]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

Socialism and communism are totalitarian.
Thats all that matters

Really? I live in a social Democracy, pretty sure I vote for my elected officials. In fact, since my choices of parties who have a realistic chance of getting power isn't restricted to 2, I would argue my form of government is less authoritarian than yours.

As far as I know, no American politician has ever claimed the US should turn to Communism. Quite a few would like a social Democracy.

Well the duopoly is private. And the voters keep it alive. Not the government.
I thought social democracies were different from socialism?
You statists need to keep your stuff strait, bro.

I would keep it straight if you guys had any interest in sticking to an actual definition. Tell me Harley, how many times have you claimed Bernie is a Communist? Or the entire Democratic party without EVER not EVER acknowledging that not a single one has ever claimed they want to emulate Communism? In fact, I've noticed that every single person on the right on this board routinely interchanges, Communist, Socialist, and Democrat. While they all are certainly not the same. So if you don't feel the need to differentiate between those terms why should I not simply lump Social Democracy in there too and see how well the US compares to that?

You were being technical. In the next post to me, you claim there is no need to be.
Ay caramba

I didn't realize correcting the assertion that all forms of Socialism are authoritarian was "technical". The fact of the matter simply is that the right has deliberately muddled the meaning of Socialism so they could start to equate it to Communism. Socialism, actual Socialism has been the driving force for stuff like the abolishing of child labor, Universal Suffrage, affordable healthcare, a 5 day work week etc. etc. You can, as I do condemn Communism because that DOES seem to invariably turn to authoritarianism. But that's a condemnation of authoritarianism, not the idea that the community should share its resources. But do me a favor don't try to come to me and say I'm inconsistent in my definition of Socialism.

I live in a Social Democracy, meaning that my country recognizes as does yours by the way just to a lesser extent than society as a whole does have a responsibility to help its weaker members. That IS Socialism. I don't know what your position is on that, how far you are willing to state that people have to be able to take care of themselves but chances are, you recognize that you have at least some responsibility to society at large.

Utter horseshit. Socialist propaganda. Socialism didn't eliminate child labor. Capitalism did. Child labor ended when the productivity of labor increased to the point where parents didn't have to put their children to work to keep the family from starving. By the time legislation was adopted, child labor had already pretty much ended. We don't have affordable healthcare, and all government meddling has done is make it more expensive. Henry Ford pretty much created the 40 hour work week. Other companies had to follow suit to compete with Ford.

Communism is just socialism that its adherents are serious about enforcing. Socialism is inherently authoritarian. Socialism is about government control of your means of earning a living. How could that be anything but authoritarian?

Your country is probably almost as capitalist as the USA. Whenever you ask a so-called socialist to point out a successful example of their program, they always point at a largely capitalist country with welfare programs.

Child Labor read this, you might just learn something true. Mind you the US was slow to the party when it came the child labor laws. The first ones were put on the books in Europe as early as 1874 by... and here it is Socialist legislators.

Leftwing propaganda that doesn't contradict what I posted.

Types of socialism - Wikipedia

This is what I hate the most about this argument. Dishonest people (I don't know a different way to describe it) often resort to broad brushing all types of Socialism into one convenient pot , the one of Communism. The basis of Socialism is equality the exact opposite of authoritarianism. It is the idea that society as a whole should share their wealth, not take but share. It doesn't say anywhere the share should even be equal.

That's all bullshit propaganda. Socialism is government control of the economy. The variations on it simply aren't important. Either you support a market economy or a government run economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism#Social_democracy

Dishonest people also commonly seem to change their minds on what Socialism is. depending on the situation. If Bernie calls for universal healthcare he's a Communist. When it's pointed out to them that other countries have Universal Healthcare they are Communist. When it's pointed out to them that those societies are stable and successful, all of a sudden they are Capitalist.

Twaddle.

Twaddle is it?

Trump will crush Bernie. Please continue supporting Bernie the millionaire commie.

What about all those socialist paradises in Europe?

Your country is probably almost as capitalist as the USA. Whenever you ask a so-called socialist to point out a successful example of their program, they always point at a largely capitalist country with welfare programs.

As to leftwing propaganda. That seems a common refrain, doesn't it? The facts don't agree with my assertions so that has to mean the facts are wrong because I'm infallible.

 

[forkup]

View attachment 343867

Your graph is well screwed, You put National Socialism as extreme left, when everybody else has it as extreme right.

Marxism is international - anybody can be a Marxist.
National Socialism is as its name suggests nationalist and inverted - only very select people can be NS.
If you put Communist - you have to put Capitalist opposite.
Liberal and Libertarian are pretty much the same thing.

I didn't create the graph. I didn't "put National Socialism as extreme left."
And "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.
You need to read Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. I took notes on the fine book which eludes you and Leftists and "progressives" (sick) everywhere.

Liberals are fascists and libertarians describes our Founding Fathers, who cherished liberty and feared oppressive government, which liberals adore and promote, like they promote the butchery of innocent unborn babies.

I love that little switch you pulled here.

put National Socialism as extreme left."

nd "everybody else" is stupid to think that socialism is right wing.

If you don't think there's a difference between Socialism and National Socialism the internet is your friend. Definition of SOCIALISM

Nazism | Definition, Leaders, Ideology, & History

Nazism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany, characterized by intense nationalism, mass appeal, dictatorial rule, and a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

www.britannica.com

In short, Socialism is at its core a collection of political theories that deal with the role of government and economics. National Socialism is a VERY specific political ideology that had its heyday in Germany during the thirties and forties of the last century. It gained notoriety because it wasn't just authoritarian but also EXTREMELY nationalistic and bigoted in its policies to the point of committing genocide. Them being Socialists wasn't a factor of their notoriety.

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

You failed to prove that Nazism wasn't socialist and therefore leftwing. Whether that made them "notorious" is beside the point.

Since I didn't attempt to prove that the Nazis weren't Socialist you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. As for that fact placing them on the left I'm sorry to disappoint you but that's utter nonsense. I explained the origins of the left-right spectrum in this OP already and the parameters it uses to place ideologies. I will say what I said to another poster who disagreed with the placement of Nazism. Create your own spectrum and somehow manage to make it more popular than the classic left-right one. Until you do arbitrarily changing positions of an ideology because you happen to disagree is silly.

What you posted is leftwing propaganda. The origin of the term from the French revolution is irrelevant. All that matters is how they are used today. the only definition that makes any sense is that the left supports socialism and the right supports the free market. When you claim that bigotry and genocide are "rightwing" you only show that you're just another leftwing douchebag intent on smearing anyone who supports market economics.

You talk about defining a spectrum when you can't even define your own spectrum. You have no definition that doesn't consist solely of smears against the right.

You're a leftwing piece of shit.

If all that matters is how it is perceived today you are shit out of luck. Since the only place, you'll find your particular classification of Nazism are memes posted by conservatives in the US, and this only recently. The rest of the world refers to nazism as extreme-right on the spectrum. Or are you arguing that when you mean perception only YOUR perception is what defines something?

What you mean is that leftwing intellectuals have been perpetuating that lie ever since the war. "leftwing" refers to people who support socialism, and that's what Nazis are. According to you, rightwing, means you're bigot who supports genocide.

Go fuck yourself, douchebag.

I don't mean that at all. In fact.

It's the problem I have with people on the right classifying Communism with Social Democracy. But also lumping Republicans as Nazis.

Trying to claim guilty by association because of someplace on a spectrum seems to be your thing.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

we can start with they vote for a party thats to the left of the constitution,,,

bigger government,,,

Name how conservatives want what is "left of the constitution"?

I'm going to keep asking until you answer me.

bigger government than the constitution allows,,,

can you say 'PATRIOT ACT"???

I havent heard back from you,,,
anything else you would like to know???

Believe it or not, I don't spend all day on forums. I have a life.

What part of the Patriot Act do you have an issue with? I really don't have an issue with the Patriot Act.

well considering it violates all of the bill of rights I have no problem,,,

it also proves youre a left wing authoritarian by supporting it,,,