Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

[ChemEngineer]

Do you think I should sell my shares ?

Both of them, moneybagsless.....

 

[ding]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties from social equality on the left to social hierarchy on the right. ... In France, where the terms originated, the left has been called "the party of movement" and the right "the party of order". Understanding the political spectrum : Unifrog Blog

It's simply a way of classifying. Basically between progressive and conservative. It's not that the left thinks it is that way, it's simply the traits by which classification is decided. There are other ways to classify but this particular one puts Fascism on the right side since they were most definitely conservative (they glorified the past).

Thanks. That is a strange way to look at things. Order and Equality on opposite sides doesn't make any sense. Are they assuming order and tryanny are the same thing? When I think left vs right, I think of small government vs government dominance. They created a classification where Tryanny is on both sides. Is their some sort of widely recognized scale based on personal freedom?

I think you are on to something there.

Big government vs small government
individual rights vs group rights

Fascism is based on big government and group rights. Despite what others will say. These are both attributes of the far left. Lastly, nationalization of assets which fascists did is a far left tactic.

If you want to have different parameters for a political spectrum, make one it's not hard. Then make it more popular than the one we find most common now. Probably a bit harder. Just don't arbitrarily switch positions of certain political movements because you feel it makes you look guilty by association. I'm a social Democrat I don't feel at all guilty because on the far left of my political system there's Communism. I'm not that's what counts.

I identified (actually DustyInfinity should get the credit) what I believed to be the telling attributes of fascism. Of course I left out totalitarian which is where socialism will eventually end up when money runs out.

Has it ever occurred to you that Socialism doesn't mean "free stuff" but rather stuff is paid for in a different manner? I'll illustrate using healthcare. I'm Belgian this means I pay way more taxes than you. On the other hand, a pay a low amount when I need healthcare. We both pay. Only I pay with my taxes and you pay out of pocket or to an insurance company. In the end, I don't care how my healthcare is paid for just that I pay as little as possible for high-quality care. In the case of healthcare, an American pays substantially more than I do.

Our form of Social Democracy as in most Western nations was established in the early 20th century. And was expanded after WW2. It has endured for well over a century now.

Yes, I do understand that. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away.

What's your point? Because I'm not sure what that has to do with my observation that big government and group rights is an attribute of fascism.

You were making the claim that Socialism leads to totalitarianism because the money runs out. I was illustrating that it's an argument that doesn't hold water. Both in historical terms and in terms of how Social Democracies function now.

Actually I am agreeing with Solzhenitsyn's statement that liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

The money running out is just the impetus for the need to control the unhappy masses when the money runs out.

Sorry to tell you but again no matter what Solzhenitsyn claimed I'm a liberal that's not a radical who believes society has a responsibility to give everybody an equal chance to succeed who still has money and is not a Communist. So were my father and his father before him.

Political theory is one thing but until that theory is supported its just that a theory. I think we had this same conversation not too long ago?

Thanks, for your personal account, but there is a distribution for everything. And as a rule, liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

Where is this happening ? Im a social democrat and I live in a social democracy. I see the many benefits that socialism has brought me and my family. I dont see communism in any of it. Caring for your neighbour is not communism, its civilisation.

Not yet you don’t. But it’s just a matter of time.

Do you think I should sell my shares ?

I suggest you look into the relationship between intrinsic value and numerical representation of intrinsic value and understand what that means when a currency crashes. Owning cash isn't always the right answer either.

 

[ding]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties from social equality on the left to social hierarchy on the right. ... In France, where the terms originated, the left has been called "the party of movement" and the right "the party of order". Understanding the political spectrum : Unifrog Blog

It's simply a way of classifying. Basically between progressive and conservative. It's not that the left thinks it is that way, it's simply the traits by which classification is decided. There are other ways to classify but this particular one puts Fascism on the right side since they were most definitely conservative (they glorified the past).

Thanks. That is a strange way to look at things. Order and Equality on opposite sides doesn't make any sense. Are they assuming order and tryanny are the same thing? When I think left vs right, I think of small government vs government dominance. They created a classification where Tryanny is on both sides. Is their some sort of widely recognized scale based on personal freedom?

I think you are on to something there.

Big government vs small government
individual rights vs group rights

Fascism is based on big government and group rights. Despite what others will say. These are both attributes of the far left. Lastly, nationalization of assets which fascists did is a far left tactic.

If you want to have different parameters for a political spectrum, make one it's not hard. Then make it more popular than the one we find most common now. Probably a bit harder. Just don't arbitrarily switch positions of certain political movements because you feel it makes you look guilty by association. I'm a social Democrat I don't feel at all guilty because on the far left of my political system there's Communism. I'm not that's what counts.

I identified (actually DustyInfinity should get the credit) what I believed to be the telling attributes of fascism. Of course I left out totalitarian which is where socialism will eventually end up when money runs out.

Has it ever occurred to you that Socialism doesn't mean "free stuff" but rather stuff is paid for in a different manner? I'll illustrate using healthcare. I'm Belgian this means I pay way more taxes than you. On the other hand, a pay a low amount when I need healthcare. We both pay. Only I pay with my taxes and you pay out of pocket or to an insurance company. In the end, I don't care how my healthcare is paid for just that I pay as little as possible for high-quality care. In the case of healthcare, an American pays substantially more than I do.

Our form of Social Democracy as in most Western nations was established in the early 20th century. And was expanded after WW2. It has endured for well over a century now.

Yes, I do understand that. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it away.

What's your point? Because I'm not sure what that has to do with my observation that big government and group rights is an attribute of fascism.

You were making the claim that Socialism leads to totalitarianism because the money runs out. I was illustrating that it's an argument that doesn't hold water. Both in historical terms and in terms of how Social Democracies function now.

Actually I am agreeing with Solzhenitsyn's statement that liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

The money running out is just the impetus for the need to control the unhappy masses when the money runs out.

Sorry to tell you but again no matter what Solzhenitsyn claimed I'm a liberal that's not a radical who believes society has a responsibility to give everybody an equal chance to succeed who still has money and is not a Communist. So were my father and his father before him.

Political theory is one thing but until that theory is supported its just that a theory. I think we had this same conversation not too long ago?

Thanks, for your personal account, but there is a distribution for everything. And as a rule, liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

Yet almost every Western nation has succeeded to be liberal, most have succeeded in being not radical and ALL have succeeded in being not Communist. Why do you keep on repeating a line that simply isn't supported in real life?

Because given enough time socialism will degrade into communism or some form of totalitarian government. It's inevitable. Societies rise and fall. When a society that relies on it's government to provide almost everything begins to fail the people will rise up and the government will respond for their own good.

Again that's an assertion so far not supported. We had this conversation and yet you seem to have problems with it. Just because you feel a specific hypothesis makes sense doesn't all of a sudden make it supported.

You seem to agree that communism is bad, right? Communism does not lead to incentives to innovate and produce or create. Socialism is predicated upon the same principle but to a lesser degree. The more and more a government provides for it's people the less reliant they need to be themselves. The more and more they are taxed for innovating, the less the incentive for innovating becomes. So it is an argument that is based not only upon logic but also upon history.

Only if you could establish Socialism leads to Communism. Until then you are stuck. Again all these Western countries still innovate. Anyways I'm going to bed.

I just did. It's the logical conclusion.

I wish I got paid for every time you have claimed that in order for something to happen YOU just have to claim it's a logical conclusion and it's proven. Don't take this the wrong way but what an ego you must have, to think your sense of logic is so evolved you just have to think something is logical for it to be inevitably true.

Some people don't have to touch a hot stove to know it is a bad idea. And some people do.

And some people will keep on claiming a stove is hot despite being able to hold their hand on it.

I'll tell you a story that seems appropriate at this time. Ever read Karl Marx? His political theory is both logical and elegant. It makes perfect sense in the context of the time it was written. Yet his conclusions haven't stood the test of time. Not because they aren't logical but because Marx didn't foresee a consumption society or a world were Socialism was capable to influence the political system to an extent that something resembling true equality is achieved. In this society upward mobility is truly possible. Marx didn't foresee these simple facts.

The point is Marx a very smart man, with very logical ideas completely failed to predict the future. Yet right up until the fall of the Soviet Union, there was a seat in the Polit Bureau for the party ideologue. These people kept on yelling how infallible the theories of Marx were right up until the Soviet Union crumbled. You are no different. You keep on holding on to your theory despite the evidence being unsupportive of it because you can not fathom a situation where your logic is flawed.

Given that social democratic parties arose in Europe, drawing mainly from Marxism and that Marx is considered to be the father of socialism, I find it odd that you would be so quick to kick him to the curb.

Given that the foundation of socialism is materialism, I'm not sure how he could have failed to foresee a a consumption society.

And given that he was trying to overthrow the status quo and start a revolution, I don't see how he could have failed to see a world where socialism didn't influenced political systems.

But as for socialism creating something resembling true equality and creating upward mobility, that's a bunch of horseshit. The goal of socialism isn't equality, it's uniformity. Socialism would rather the poor remain poor as long as the rich are less rich.

You don't have to take my word for it, you will get to experience it for yourself.

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

 

[Levant]

Sorry to open up this can of worms, but how is nationalism morally objectionable? Are you talking in the specific historic example of Germany, or are you saying nationalism in general is bad? To me nationalism is simply loving your country. No more, no less. I don't see the leap to loving your country, to doing bad things to your own people in the name of loving your country.

And when your government, even flawed, is still the best in the world, and not by just a little bit but by orders of magnitude, we have a right to be proud of our nation and to want to protect it from destruction by foreign influence intended to destroy our way of life.

Not many American nationalists object to anyone, from anywhere, coming into the United States if they came legally, with respect for our laws and way of life, and with a love for the hope and opportunity they get here. It is those who march here demanding access while carrying signs saying Fuck America, burning our flags, and while doing both of those, posing their children flipping the bird at the United States, that we object to.

Nationalism isn't hate, it is love. Hitler's nationalism was different because it was a government truly built on hate; the nation and government they loved was hate. The leftists and America haters will say ours is based on hate but we all, including them, know it's a lie.

"The best in the world", "by orders of magnitude"? What parameters are you using for those statements? Happiness? Sorry to tell you but that is measured and I'm afraid America scores decidedly mediocre on that index. Ranked: The 20 Happiest Countries In The World Life expectancy? Sorry bottom of the pack among industrialized nations. Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2020) - Worldometer. Freedom? No, I'm afraid I'd have to disappoint you. Human Freedom Index So what parameters are you using?

Your link shows Hong Kong as having more personal liberty than the US. The site is bullshit. The US is the best country, with the best government, in the world. If you don't like it, move to whichever country you think is better. Insist on your right to go there for asylum.

 

[Levant]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

Wrong. They settled on the constitution because they DID account for stupid and greedy people. Anyone with a brain that considers anarchy will settle on government - either before or after trying anarchy - because of stupid and greedy people.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

Wrong. They settled on the constitution because they DID account for stupid and greedy people. Anyone with a brain that considers anarchy will settle on government - either before or after trying anarchy - because of stupid and greedy people.

thats true if I ignore the fact they did the articles of confederation first,,,

if repubes and the constitution are the far right then where do the libertarians and anarchist sit???

they are for less government than the constitution allows so wouldnt they be the right???


your stuck on the european scale not the american one

 

[Levant]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

The Constitution is the solid, unbreakable, wall at the far end of the right. People who make up shit like alt-right, right-wing extremist instead of authoritarian, right-wing white supremacist, etcetera are lying. Racism, white supremacy, and authoritarianism are all tools of the left. There is, in reality, the Constitution and left of the Constitution. In America, that's all there is.

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

The Constitution is the solid, unbreakable, wall at the far end of the right. People who make up shit like alt-right, right-wing extremist instead of authoritarian, right-wing white supremacist, etcetera are lying. Racism, white supremacy, and authoritarianism are all tools of the left. There is, in reality, the Constitution and left of the Constitution. In America, that's all there is.

sorry thats not true and backed up by history,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

we can start with they vote for a party thats to the left of the constitution,,,

bigger government,,,

 

[Andylusion]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

we can start with they vote for a party thats to the left of the constitution,,,

bigger government,,,

Name how conservatives want what is "left of the constitution"?

I'm going to keep asking until you answer me.

 

[progressive hunter]

View attachment 343867

your graph is pretty close but the conservative republicans are on the left of center not the right,,,thats due to the constitution being the center and they wanting more government than the constitution allows,,,

What? First, the constitution is not in the middle.

The constitution is very much a right-wing document.

Under the constitution the powers of the Federal government are extremely limited. They are limited in a way, that no other government in world history had been limited. And even to this day, no government is as limited as ours is under the constitution.

This places the constitution clearly in the side of the right.

Further, saying conservatives and republicans are left of center, is a bit deceptive.

First, conservatives and republicans are not the same. Republicans are a group of politicians, while conservationism, is an ideology.

I'd be hard pressed to know a conservative that supports government run health care, or all the social programs, or so on.

Bush Jr supported partial privatization of the Social Security. That's about as right-wing a policy as you can get. Bush supported giving VA patients vouchers so they could go to private hospitals. Bush supported school choice and vouchers to do to charter and private schools.

So saying that conservatives are on the left, is not supportable by the facts.

you completely ignored the founding of the country and what they considered and accepted,,,

the founders were close to full anarchist and thats proven by the articles of confederation and the phrase they went by,,,
CAN MAN GOVERN HIMSELF??? which means anarchy

THEY SETTLED ON THE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE they didnt account for stupid and greedy people,,

and please dont try and cherry pick singled out policies to support them,,
the overall of both parties is bigger government than the constitution allows,,,which means they are both to the left of the constitution,,
the right is libertarian to anarchist,,,

sorry but thats the facts and its backed up by history,,,

No, that is false. The problem was not that men were greedy, or that man can't govern himself, or anything like that.

The problem was the Federal government wasn't able to raise an effective army to defend the country as a whole. So they created the constitution.

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

history doesnt support that,,,

republicans are to the left of the constitution because their platform and actions call for more government than the constitution allows,,,,

why conservatives vote for them can only be explained by the kool ade they drink,,,

Again, in what way are conservatives left of the constitutions?

asked and answered,,,

I am growing tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Be specific. In what way, are conservatives left of the constitution? NAME IT.

What way? Either shut up, or put up.

so are you agreeing that republicans are left of the constitution???

since youre the one ignoring history you shouldnt complain to me about having an intelligent conversation

You keep making statements you can't back up.

In what way are Conservatives left of the constitution. Name it.

What do you claim we want, that the constitution does not support?

we can start with they vote for a party thats to the left of the constitution,,,

bigger government,,,

Name how conservatives want what is "left of the constitution"?

I'm going to keep asking until you answer me.

bigger government than the constitution allows,,,

can you say 'PATRIOT ACT"???