Do You Believe Trump Will Be Convicted?

[Flopper]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

He can. The Senate can pass a censure resolution involving the 14th amendment. The bipartisan effort is on life support, though.

Bipartisan Senate duo crafts censure resolution that seeks to bar Trump from office

The senators say censuring Trump is optimal given GOP objections to impeachment.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Flopper]

Too many idiotic Americans bought into the democrat's "unity" bullshit.

Nah, total fantasy. The fact is, Trump and Trumpism created more votes against it/himself than for it/himself. And that's not going to change.

I agree that his antics turned off a lot of his previous supporters, but I disagree that it couldn't change. If Biden turns out to be the fuck up that it appears he will, those who moved away from Trump and voted for Biden, hoping for something better, could easily shift right back if they believe Biden can be beaten.

Biden wouldn't have won the election if a good number of previous Trump supporters didn't vote for him. If they sway back to Trump, Trump could most certainly win in 2024...

I think Trump would have a harder time winning in 2024 because he would have all the same baggage he had in 2020 plus his claims of massive voter fraud and his role in the attack on the capital.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Too many idiotic Americans bought into the democrat's "unity" bullshit.

Nah, total fantasy. The fact is, Trump and Trumpism created more votes against it/himself than for it/himself. And that's not going to change.

I agree that his antics turned off a lot of his previous supporters, but I disagree that it couldn't change. If Biden turns out to be the fuck up that it appears he will, those who moved away from Trump and voted for Biden, hoping for something better, could easily shift right back if they believe Biden can be beaten.

Biden wouldn't have won the election if a good number of previous Trump supporters didn't vote for him. If they sway back to Trump, Trump could most certainly win in 2024...

I think Trump would have a harder time winning in 2024 because he would have all the same baggage he had in 2020 plus his claims of massive voter fraud and his role in the attack on the capital.

Like I said, I think it'll hinge on how big of a fuck-up Biden proves to be. If he runs in 2024 after spending four years being a monumental failure, Trump could jump back into the fray and, conceivably, win. A lot of 2016 Trump voters voted for Biden in November. It may not take as much as you think to turn them back.

Personally, I'm hoping Tulsi Gabbard challenges a Biden/Harris ticket in 2024 (assuming Biden's not wearing a diaper and a bib in 2024). I could easily vote for her over Trump...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Too many idiotic Americans bought into the democrat's "unity" bullshit.

Nah, total fantasy. The fact is, Trump and Trumpism created more votes against it/himself than for it/himself. And that's not going to change.

I agree that his antics turned off a lot of his previous supporters, but I disagree that it couldn't change. If Biden turns out to be the fuck up that it appears he will, those who moved away from Trump and voted for Biden, hoping for something better, could easily shift right back if they believe Biden can be beaten.

Biden wouldn't have won the election if a good number of previous Trump supporters didn't vote for him. If they sway back to Trump, Trump could most certainly win in 2024...

I think Trump would have a harder time winning in 2024 because he would have all the same baggage he had in 2020 plus his claims of massive voter fraud and his role in the attack on the capital.

Like I said, I think it'll hinge on how big of a fuck-up Biden proves to be. If he runs in 2024 after spending four years being a monumental failure, Trump could jump back into the fray and, conceivably, win. A lot of 2016 Trump voters voted for Biden in November. It may not take as much as you think to turn them back.

Personally, I'm hoping Tulsi Gabbard challenges a Biden/Harris ticket in 2024 (assuming Biden's not wearing a diaper and a bib in 2024). I could easily vote for her over Trump...

Any significant number of Trump voters who switched to Biden (you greatly overestimate this number to suggest it decided the election, or even came close) defected because Trump is a repulsive, garbage human. That isn't going to change between now and 2024. In fact, as his mental illness progresses and his already deficient mental acuity worsens, he will just get worse.

 

[Flopper]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

He can. The Senate can pass a censure resolution involving the 14th amendment. The bipartisan effort is on life support, though.

Bipartisan Senate duo crafts censure resolution that seeks to bar Trump from office

The senators say censuring Trump is optimal given GOP objections to impeachment.

abcnews.go.com

If democrats in the Senate plan on using section 3 of the 14th amendment to disqualify him from office, then they should not try him as he would be found innocent of engaging in Insurrection thus making a censure and disbarring unconstitutional.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

He can. The Senate can pass a censure resolution involving the 14th amendment. The bipartisan effort is on life support, though.

Bipartisan Senate duo crafts censure resolution that seeks to bar Trump from office

The senators say censuring Trump is optimal given GOP objections to impeachment.

abcnews.go.com

If democrats in the Senate plan on using section 3 of the 14th amendment to disqualify him from office, then they should not try him as he would be found innocent of engaging in Insurrection thus making a censure and disbarring unconstitutional.

I tend to agree. Except for the "unconstitutional" part. There is no rule prohibiting a resolution that contradicts a senate trial outcome. And if we have learned anything these last 4 years, it is this: If it ain't written down, then it ain't a rule.

 

[Flopper]

Too many idiotic Americans bought into the democrat's "unity" bullshit.

Nah, total fantasy. The fact is, Trump and Trumpism created more votes against it/himself than for it/himself. And that's not going to change.

I agree that his antics turned off a lot of his previous supporters, but I disagree that it couldn't change. If Biden turns out to be the fuck up that it appears he will, those who moved away from Trump and voted for Biden, hoping for something better, could easily shift right back if they believe Biden can be beaten.

Biden wouldn't have won the election if a good number of previous Trump supporters didn't vote for him. If they sway back to Trump, Trump could most certainly win in 2024...

I think Trump would have a harder time winning in 2024 because he would have all the same baggage he had in 2020 plus his claims of massive voter fraud and his role in the attack on the capital.

Like I said, I think it'll hinge on how big of a fuck-up Biden proves to be. If he runs in 2024 after spending four years being a monumental failure, Trump could jump back into the fray and, conceivably, win. A lot of 2016 Trump voters voted for Biden in November. It may not take as much as you think to turn them back.

Personally, I'm hoping Tulsi Gabbard challenges a Biden/Harris ticket in 2024 (assuming Biden's not wearing a diaper and a bib in 2024). I could easily vote for her over Trump...

If it appears to Biden that he would lose, he will step aside due his age leaving it to Harris or whoever the democrats nominate. In fact, there is a good chance that he will not run again regardless of his performance in office because he will be 82 in 4 years. If he performs well in office, Harris will likely be the next democrat nominee but if Biden fucks up badly, then it may be time for the democrats to pick a young rising star in the party. A lot of voters are going to be pretty sick of the country being run by old men.

 

[Canon Shooter]

In fact, as his mental illness progresses and his already deficient mental acuity worsens, he will just get worse.

Such comments make me laugh when I consider the man who is our current President. His resume of mental gaffes is profound. They're not just "misspeaks", they're worrisome mental lapses; ones which the most powerful man on the planet should not be making...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Such comments make me laugh when I consider the man who is our current President. His resume of mental gaffes is profound.

Gaffes are gaffes. Being unintelligent, ignorant, incurious, amoral, unethical, and classless is, of course, completely different. Biden is none of those things. Trump is all of those things. And you are not going to put any words in just the right order to get around that. Biden could commit 10 "gaffes" a day, and Trump will still be a repulsive, garbage human, and he will likely be even more so in 4 years. Biden didn't take away the House, Senate, and White House. The poisonous Trump forced Americans to take them away with his despicable behavior.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Okay, so you're unable to support your argument.

I just dont spoonfeed simple, easily found information that is literally in the news almost every day. The info is easily found, as is the precedent for censuring a President.

Basically, how it would work is that the 14th amendment would be invoked and referenced in the censure resolution. There is nothing prohibiting this in the Constitution.

It will remain a moot point for now. The Democrats don't have the votes.

 

[Flopper]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

He can. The Senate can pass a censure resolution involving the 14th amendment. The bipartisan effort is on life support, though.

Bipartisan Senate duo crafts censure resolution that seeks to bar Trump from office

The senators say censuring Trump is optimal given GOP objections to impeachment.

abcnews.go.com

If democrats in the Senate plan on using section 3 of the 14th amendment to disqualify him from office, then they should not try him as he would be found innocent of engaging in Insurrection thus making a censure and disbarring unconstitutional.

I tend to agree. Except for the "unconstitutional" part. There is no rule prohibiting a resolution that contradicts a senate trial outcome. And if we have learned anything these last 4 years, it is this: If it ain't written down, then it ain't a rule.

If the Senate found him not guilty of insurrection, then how could they pass a resolution barring him from office because of his participation in an insurrection. It seems to me the better course is to dismiss the impeachment and go for the censure and disbarment. It's a waste of time to try him because democrats will never get 17 republicans to vote him guilty.

 

[miketx]

Yes, in the court of public opinion, in the senate no and it will cause a great rend in the party over people who know the truth and those that deny the truth.

The only one which matters is the Senate vote.

So, given that they'll fail (again), why bother? He's already been impeached. An acquittal will hardly harm Trump more...

Isn't the senate 50/50 with Harris the tie breaker? Oh yeah, I forgot the ten rinos...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Okay, so you're unable to support your argument.

I just dont spoonfeed simple, easily found information that is literally in the news almost every day. The info is easily found, as is the precedent for censuring a President.

Basically, how it would work is that the 14th amendment would be invoked and referenced in the censure resolution. There is nothing prohibiting this in the Constitution.

It will remain a moot point for now. The Democrats don't have the votes.

Yep, looks that way. Lesson learned? A president lying about the election being stolen and whipping americans into a violent frenzy with despicable lies is fine and dandy. So you can expect republicans to continue to do it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If the Senate found him not guilty of insurrection, then how could they pass a resolution barring him from office because of his participation in an insurrection. It seems to me the better course is to dismiss the impeachm

What would stop them? One can be held liable for a crime, even if that person was acquitted of it at trial. Ask OJ.

 

[Moonglow]

This is interesting. I found this on Wiki, so it is what it is (emphasis mine):

A conviction at impeachment trial is not a punishment, and the consequences are limited to removal from office. A party removed by impeachment may then also be permanently disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. If convicted and disqualified, the disqualification from public office only restricts the impeached party from serving within positions created under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution. Because the right of the States to choose the President is indefeasible, and because the Supreme Court has repeatedly explained that elected officials, such as the President, cannot be “officers of the United States."[39][40];” a party who is impeached, convicted, and disqualified from holding office who is otherwise legally eligible under Article II of the Constitution can still be legally elected as President, Vice President, or any other elected position within the United States.

I've not yet investigated the footnotes in that, but could the possibility exist that, even if convicted, Trump could still theoretically run and be elected?

He can be reelected as long as congress does not ban him from holding office after congress convicts him and voters are stupid enough to re-elect him, none of which is likely.

Also, they could ban him from holding future office with only 51 votes.

If he is not convicted I don't believe he can be banned from holding office again.

He can. The Senate can pass a censure resolution involving the 14th amendment. The bipartisan effort is on life support, though.

Bipartisan Senate duo crafts censure resolution that seeks to bar Trump from office

The senators say censuring Trump is optimal given GOP objections to impeachment.

abcnews.go.com

If democrats in the Senate plan on using section 3 of the 14th amendment to disqualify him from office, then they should not try him as he would be found innocent of engaging in Insurrection thus making a censure and disbarring unconstitutional.

I tend to agree. Except for the "unconstitutional" part. There is no rule prohibiting a resolution that contradicts a senate trial outcome. And if we have learned anything these last 4 years, it is this: If it ain't written down, then it ain't a rule.

If the Senate found him not guilty of insurrection, then how could they pass a resolution barring him from office because of his participation in an insurrection. It seems to me the better course is to dismiss the impeachment and go for the censure and disbarment. It's a waste of time to try him because democrats will never get 17 republicans to vote him guilty.

There was not enough support for censure.

 

[Moonglow]

I'd rather see Trump tried in a criminal court.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Okay, so you're unable to support your argument.

I just dont spoonfeed simple, easily found information that is literally in the news almost every day. The info is easily found, as is the precedent for censuring a President.

Basically, how it would work is that the 14th amendment would be invoked and referenced in the censure resolution. There is nothing prohibiting this in the Constitution.

It will remain a moot point for now. The Democrats don't have the votes.

Yep, looks that way. Lesson learned? A president lying about the election being stolen and whipping americans into a violent frenzy with despicable lies is fine and dandy. So you can expect republicans to continue to do it.

It's only a lie to those whom the truth would harm.

You've not seen Americans whipped into "a violent frenzy" as yet. Pray that day never comes.

I'm looking forward to next week's clown show.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's only a lie to those whom the truth would harm

No, that is insanely fucking stupid. It is a lie, because it is objectively untrue. Wait... You still peddle the stolen election lies? Good god.

 

[Canon Shooter]

If the Senate found him not guilty of insurrection, then how could they pass a resolution barring him from office because of his participation in an insurrection. It seems to me the better course is to dismiss the impeachm

What would stop them? One can be held liable for a crime, even if that person was acquitted of it at trial. Ask OJ.

The crime he was charged with was murder in the first degree. He was found not guilty of that charge, and he was not tried for that crime a second time...