Zone1 Do we have any prayer warriors here? I have an idea.

[Carl in Michigan]

Ethan Allen’s book, Reason: The Only Oracle of Man (1784),

One of my favorite rational theists of the founding generation was farmer, philosopher, author, politician, and guerrilla revolutionary leader Ethan Allen, who perhaps is best known for leading the Green Mountain Boys (and other fighters) in their raid and capture of Fort Ticonderoga, a strategic victory which severely hampered communication between the northern and southern units of the British army.

Allen believed reason must take a paramount place in religious activity. He wrote, Reason: The Only Oracle of Man (1784),

For many centuries after the establishment of Christianity, mankind became more barbarous, ignorant, and miserable than before, instead of assisting the human mind in its progress to improvement, that system completely retarded it; a gloomy superstition, which sprung out of these gospels, cramped its energies, and fettered its exertions; instead of guiding society to freedom, peace, and happiness, there was founded on the authority of these writings a system of the most horrible and debasing oppression. ETHAN ALLEN Reason: The Only Oracle of Man​

Ethan Allen was a freethinker and critic of Christianity. He wrote Reason, the Only Oracle of Man, in which he espoused natural religion and denied the validity of traditional religions, including Christianity. It is said that he stopped his wedding ceremony when the phrase "agreeable to the laws of God" was uttered, in order to clarify that the only god meant was the god of nature, and not the god of any organized religion or any other god. Only after he was reassured on this point would he allow the ceremony to proceed. Ethan Allen​

The idea of a God we infer from our experimental dependence on something superior to ourselves in wisdom, power and goodness, which we call God; our senses discover to us the works of God which we call nature, and which is a manifest demonstration of his invisible essence. Thus it is from the works of nature that we deduce the knowledge of a God, and not because we have, or can have any immediate knowledge of, or revelation from him.​

Ethan Allen​

Ch. V Section II - Containing Observations on the Providence and Agency of God, as it Respects the Natural and Moral World, with Strictures on Revelation in General - Reason: The Only Oracle Of Man (1784)​

​

To suppose that God Almighty has confined his goodness to this world, to the exclusion of all others, is much similar to the idle fancies of some individuals in this world, that they, and those of their communion or faith, are the favorites of heaven exclusively; but these are narrow and bigoted conceptions, which are degrading to a rational nature, and utterly unworthy of God, of whom we should form the most exalted ideas.​

Ethan Allen Ch. II Section III - Of The Eternity and Infinitude of Divine Providence - Reason: The Only Oracle Of Man (1784)​

​

PRAYER CANNOT BE ATTENDED WITH MIRACULOUS CONSEQUENCES​

​

Prayer to God is no part of a rational religion, nor did reason ever dictate it, but, was it duly attended to, it would teach us the contrary. Full text of "Reason, the Only Oracle of Man: Or, A Compenduous System of Natural Religion"​

To make known our wants to God by prayer or to communicate any intelligence concerning ourselves or the universe to him, is impossible, since his omniscient mind has a perfect knowledge of all things, and there- fore is beholden to none of our correspondence to inform himself of our circumstances, or of what would be wisest and best to do for us in all possible conditions and modes of existence, in our never ending duration of being.​

How is his furniture business doing these days

Another Atheist evangelist pissing on a thread

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Another Atheist evangelist pissing on a thread

Presenting truth about the men and women who sacrificed a lot to give you the nation you live in is of some annoyance to Americans like you who think they are god’s gift to America and therefore it’s rightful rulers.

Ethan Allen’s little army of green mountain boys overthrew the fort protecting the northern route into the interior. They confiscated canons from the fort dragging then through the snow to Boston to protect the city during the British siege at the start of the revolutionary war. ALLEN was later captured by the British and spent, several years in the hold of a British warship as a prisoner of war. Shit on him if you must. I got your screen name? Snowflake crlnnnrbr

Duly noted

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Presenting truth about the men and women who sacrificed a lot to give you the nation you live in is of some annoyance to Americans like you who think they are god’s gift to America and therefore it’s rightful rulers.

Ethan Allen’s little army of green mountain boys overthrew the fort protecting the northern route into the interior. They confiscated canons from the fort dragging then through the snow to Boston to protect the city during the British siege at the start of the revolutionary war. ALLEN was later captured by the British and spent, several years in the hold of a British warship as a prisoner of war. Shit on him if you must. I got your screen name? Snowflake crlnnnrbr

Duly noted

Not in ANY WAY related to the thread you're posting on

Your attempt to derail another thread in the religion section is duly noted.

I understand why you Atheist Evangelists do this

If YOU actually started a proper thread here it's get no traction.

Stick to the thread topic or start your own thread

 

[whutTHEYsay]

crlnnnrbr.22.05.08
#2,262

Like I said Stann, I'm done with these abortion threads. I won't help the DNC. I. see yoi in November for your bloodbath

Not in ANY WAY related to the thread you're posting on

I’m interested in learning more about the impact that “praying warriors” have on our secular form of self-governances and society. This seems like a good place to find out more about why most who identify as prayer warriors want to force full term gestation on people who are not prayer warriors.

bttrcp

As I mentioned, I originally was going to put the idea out on the open forum but I changed my mind.

I kinda figured this thread is done as the OP changed her mind. So why not let’s discuss the subject and role of prayer warriors in a multicultural society where many of the founding generation were not into Christian salvation and much into praying let alone being warriors of evangelical Christianity like we see today crossing sone lines of seiarstion of church and state.

I was hoping for more prayer warriors joining this thread

 

[Meriweather]

I kinda figured this thread is done as the OP changed her mind. So why not let’s discuss the subject and role of prayer warriors in a multicultural society where many of the founding generation were not into Christian salvation and much into praying let alone being warriors of evangelical Christianity like we see today crossing sone lines of seiarstion of church and state.

Starting with the definition of warrior:

• A person engaged or experienced in warfare; soldier.
• A person who shows or has shown great vigor, courage, or aggressiveness, as in politics or athletics.

When it comes to prayer, let's replace the word "aggressive" with "persistent". Next, don't think of prayer as a "wish list" or God as a genii. In the original Hebrew, prayer does not mean begging or pleading. It is our connection to God and His ways. Throughout the day, we pray to remember this connection as daily life often drives our thoughts elsewhere and we wish to refocus on our connection with God and how He gives us everything while owing us nothing.

You mentioned abortion. Our connection with God is through our life. Life is our most precious gift and how we connect with God. Our prayer connection to God would be to appreciate and thank God for life, and that, as a nation, we, too, might value and cherish life as the extraordinary gift it is.

Think about this: Are you against the idea of everyone valuing and cherishing life? Hopefully, no one is praying for God to smite those who have or perform abortions, because our connection with God is in His ways of bringing forth the ideal through the free will of others, not our way via forced legislation.

 

[Michelle420]

I pray everyday

 

[whutTHEYsay]

mrwthr.23,09.27
#25

You mentioned abortion. Our connection with God is through our life. Life is our most precious gift and how we connect with God. Our prayer connection to God would be to appreciate and thank God for life, and that, as a nation, we, too, might value and cherish life as the extraordinary gift it is.

I’d say 99% of Americans view life a a precious gift as much as you whether or not they have a spiritual connection to God. It’s just that your being Catholic dictates your connection begins at conception and there is no threat that prevents you from exercising your belief according to the dictates of your conscience.

So, as a nation you are living with sufficiently moral people that see the precious gift of life beginning at first breath or at least when the capability of taking that first breath and surviving is a possible outcome..There is no national sin for that belief.

You live your beliefs and you leave everyone else to live theirs. That is the line of separation between state and individual conscience that must never be crossed.

Government bans on abortions cross that line.

mrwthr.23,09.27
#25

Are you against the idea of everyone valuing and cherishing life?

Under our secular form of government no American should question the moral integrity of another American for a belief that life begins at first breath.

Schlafly Catholics need to give it a rest.

nf.23.09.24 #11,175

1976: This period would represent a turning point in Republican politics. Republican political activists such as Phyllis Schlafly worked to bring together evangelicals and conservative Catholics by uniting them in concern about women’s changing place in society and how they would exercise new rights, such as abortion. Until then, legal abortion had been supported by many Republicans.“Schlafly and her supporters argue that 1960s liberalism celebrates the individual and promotes the rights of the individual at the expense of the family and at the expense of a kind of moral order,” the Harvard historian Jill Lepore told On the Media.A âfundamentalâ right: a timeline of US abortion rights since Roe v Wade pblshd moralxtianorder.21.12.01 para010
“Abortion becomes a linchpin” for this argument, she added.

In any case nice to speak with you Saint Meriweather. I do wish you well,

nf.23.09.27

 

[Meriweather]

I’d say 99% of Americans view life a a precious gift as much as you whether or not they have a spiritual connection to God. It’s just that your being Catholic dictates your connection begins at conception and there is no threat that prevents you from exercising your belief according to the dictates of your conscience.

You wondered about prayer and gave abortion as an example. I spoke of how people pray, removing legislation from the equation, and thus keeping prayer between only the individual and God. And you jump down my throat.

I take it the prayer part didn't interest you at all, or if it does, you are against people praying in such a way? Shrug. The legislative part does not interest me and prayer--not legislation--was your question anyway. Can't imagine why you are so bent out of shape, but I hope your day improves.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You live your beliefs and you leave everyone else to live theirs. That is the line of separation between state and individual conscience that must never be crossed

You don't have a say in "our democracy" when it comes to your desire to kill the preborn.

And why do you believe it is only those meddle some Christians who oppose baby killing.

And why do you want to FORCE everyone else to accept that taking an innocent life is a RIGHT that no one is allowed to oppose.
Nobody cares that you don't think we have a RIGHT to engage in the Democratic process

 

[whutTHEYsay]

mrwthr.23.03.22
#415

I disapprove of society--particularly government--giving its approval to intensely personal issues. Divorce, abortion, homosexuality, transgenders, etc. No public entity should usurp the authority of the individual. I've quoted the study before, where if people in authority authorize and urge someone to hurt someone because it is really alright, more than two-thirds of individuals will take authority at its word. This means when authority tells society, "It is alright", two-thirds of society will automatically accept that it is, indeed, right.

Now, if an individual gives thought to what they will have and what they will lose for any such personal decisions (openly homosexual, divorce, abortion, etc.) without outside influence, then other individuals need to respect this freedom. The trouble with government is that it seldom--if ever--addresses the loss of government decisions. Government plows ahead with an arrogance that whatever government decides is right WILL BE RIGHT--even when it is not.

mrwthr.23.08.23
#85

Kill your children! Mutilate your children!

mrwthr.23.09.27
#28

You wondered about prayer and gave abortion as an example. I spoke of how people pray, removing legislation from the equation, and thus keeping prayer between only the individual and God. And you jump down my throat.

I take it the prayer part didn't interest you at all, or if it does, you are against people praying in such a way? Shrug. The legislative part does not interest me and prayer--not legislation--was your question anyway. Can't imagine why you are so bent out of shape, but I hope your day improves.

Referencing { mrwthr.23.03.22 #415 Irrational Saint Meriweather says she disapproves of government giving its approval to abortion.

Rationally derived truth however is that government does not give its approval to abortion.

Government that lives up to the Constitution Grants freedom of conscience unhindered on the matter of an individual’s deciding whether or not to carry a pregnancy to full term.

How do we correct all the Saint Meriweathers out there who support the Republican Party’s Schlafly agenda against individualism for the sake of radically rightwing Catholic family values?

“Schlafly and her supporters argue that 1960s liberalism celebrates the individual and promotes the rights of the individual at the expense of the family and at the expense of a kind of moral order,” the Harvard historian Jill Lepore told On the Media.​

​

We can’t correct so many Saint Meriweathers but we can contain them by supporting the Constitutional Amendment in Ohio in November. And when Ohioans decide woman will have their Reproductive guaranteed in Ohio’s Constitution we must remind every voter in America it’s Republicans like Saint Meriweather and the prayer warriors on this thread who do not want women to have it.

nf.23.09.27

 

[whutTHEYsay]

crlnnnrbr.23.09.27
#29

You don't have a say in "our democracy" when it comes to your desire to kill the preborn.

I do not have any desire to kill any preborn.

I am not Herschel Walker.

But why don’t I have a say in our democracy?

nf.23.09.27
#31

 

[Meriweather]

disapproves of government

There is no purpose to bring government into a thread about prayer. It is no secret that I am for small government and for government to stay out of personal matters. I will not be answering any post that is drag in here from any other thread. This thread is about prayer. Period.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

mrwthr.23.09.27
#28

You wondered about prayer and gave abortion as an example. I spoke of how people pray, removing legislation from the equation, and thus keeping prayer between only the individual and God.

I wonder about prayer warriors. Specifically the ones like you who want big Government in the Doctors offices forcing full term gestation on woman against their will.