Do theists believe in logic?

[KittenKoder]

Good and evil is subjective.

Exactly right.

Unless one believes that GOD defines them, then good and evil is subjective because GOD is the subject defining them.

My favorite examples are the Aztec and Incan empires. To them not only are some things we cringe at acceptable, they were regarded as duties and sacred.

 

[garyd]

Exactly so. The Aztecs and Incas believed certain things because they had very incomplete knowledge and very imperfect collection systems for that knowledge.

 

[JBeukema]

The quality of one's logic is wholly dependent upon the qulaity of the information and the quality of the means by which said information is acquired. The closer you get to the edges the less sure one can be of anything.

All of science rest upon unproven and inherently unprovable assumptions.

In order for one's logic to be pefect one most be at least two of the three omni's to wit omniscient and omnipresent.

Wrong, moron. One can have sound logic regardless of whether the information is valid. Good logic + bad information = incorrect conclusion

Exactly so. The Aztecs and Incas believed certain things because they had very incomplete knowledge and very imperfect collection systems for that knowledge.

Just like you

 

[garyd]

Wrong moron if logic derives faulty solutions then either the information upon which it is based is wrong or the logic was faulty or some combination of the two usually the last.

And right back at ya.

 

[ST34]

The quality of one's logic is wholly dependent upon the qulaity of the information and the quality of the means by which said information is acquired

if logic derives faulty solutions then either the information upon which it is based is wrong or the logic was faulty or some combination of the two usually the last

you are speaking about the quality of the information and not logics

One can have sound logic regardless of whether the information is valid

I confirm it fully

All of science rest upon unproven and inherently unprovable assumptions

Science rest upon first of all on empirical evidence; and empirical facts are a certain obviousness. For example, that I am now sitting at the armchair and I am writing this post isn't unprovable but is an obvious fact.

 

[JBeukema]

Wrong moron if logic derives faulty solutions then either the information upon which it is based is wrong or the logic was faulty or some combination of the two usually the last..

so you try to disprove my assertion by agreeing with me? Fool.

Science rest upon first of all on empirical evidence; and empirical facts are a certain obviousness. For example, that I am now sitting at the armchair and I am writing this post isn't unprovable but is an obvious fact.

Nor can it be proven, although it is by far the best available theory to explain the observable universe as you experience it

 

[edthecynic]

Perfect logic flowing from flawed premises leads to perfectly logical, but entire incorrect conclusions.

What is madness? To have erroneous perceptions and to reason correctly from them.
- Voltaire

 

[Toro]

What is absolute truth?

"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is what is real. And also what is unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between, plus some things I can't remember, all rolled up into this one big "thing." This is truth, to me." - Jack Handy.

 

[manifold]

It's hardly my interpretation of the the fall of Adam and what it meant, lad.

The fact that you suppose it is, is still another example of how far out of your depth you are in this discussion.

lad?

More condescending bullshit from mister know-it-all.

So tell me, is it not possible that knowledge of good and evil is the foundation for all knowledge? Or to put it another way, if Eden truly was as it is described, what need would there have been for critical reason and logic? I can't think of any. But once Adam and Eve were cast out and forced to fend for themselves for survival, reason and logic became critically important.

I think what is going on here is far less about me being out of my depth and a lot more about your inability to keep an open mind about anything.

Yeah I suppose that one could make the a tortured argument that the recognition of good and evil demands logic.

But if one makes that argument, then everything demands logic..not just determining the good or evil of a situation.

Logic is a necessary thing in cases where no moral issue is at stake, too.

Assume one wants to get an apple out of a tree.

One employs logic to achieve that task.

Good and evil in that case?

Not really part of the issue.

If we are going to assume that Adam lived in the garden of Eden, we also have to assume that he still used logic to get through his day to day activities before he and eve recognized things as either good or evil.

Almost nothing we do, doesn't demand some logic to get it done.

Not even in Eden before the Fall of Adam.

You're not the first person I've heard use the term torture to describe lateral thinking.

But I have to completely disagree with you about the need for logic in Eden as described in the Bible. In general terms, logic is used to solve problems. In Eden there would've been no problems. As for your example of how to get an apple out of a tree, in Eden one would always be within arm's reach. So the only way I can buy your argument on this point is if I thought it actually takes logic to extend your arm, pick the apple and proceed to eat it. I don't.

 

[JBeukema]

In Eden there would've been no problems. As for your example of how to get an apple out of a tree, in Eden one would always be within arm's reach. So the only way I can buy your argument on this point is if I thought it actually takes logic to extend your arm, pick the apple and proceed to eat it. I don't.

I am hungry.That apple is WAY over there, on that tree... how can I solve this problem?

 

[RodISHI]

lad?

More condescending bullshit from mister know-it-all.

So tell me, is it not possible that knowledge of good and evil is the foundation for all knowledge? Or to put it another way, if Eden truly was as it is described, what need would there have been for critical reason and logic? I can't think of any. But once Adam and Eve were cast out and forced to fend for themselves for survival, reason and logic became critically important.

I think what is going on here is far less about me being out of my depth and a lot more about your inability to keep an open mind about anything.

Yeah I suppose that one could make the a tortured argument that the recognition of good and evil demands logic.

But if one makes that argument, then everything demands logic..not just determining the good or evil of a situation.

Logic is a necessary thing in cases where no moral issue is at stake, too.

Assume one wants to get an apple out of a tree.

One employs logic to achieve that task.

Good and evil in that case?

Not really part of the issue.

If we are going to assume that Adam lived in the garden of Eden, we also have to assume that he still used logic to get through his day to day activities before he and eve recognized things as either good or evil.

Almost nothing we do, doesn't demand some logic to get it done.

Not even in Eden before the Fall of Adam.

You're not the first person I've heard use the term torture to describe lateral thinking.

But I have to completely disagree with you about the need for logic in Eden as described in the Bible. In general terms, logic is used to solve problems. In Eden there would've been no problems. As for your example of how to get an apple out of a tree, in Eden one would always be within arm's reach. So the only way I can buy your argument on this point is if I thought it actually takes logic to extend your arm, pick the apple and proceed to eat it. I don't.

Can you tell me who decided it was an apple tree?

Eden=Pleasure

 

[We Are They]

"If Eden truly was as it is described" and god is all powerful and made everything, what was a ******* snake doing there in the first place? And if god didn't want to 2 horny naked people to eat the hetero apple, why the **** did he plant apple trees in his goddam ******* yard?

 

[manifold]

In Eden there would've been no problems. As for your example of how to get an apple out of a tree, in Eden one would always be within arm's reach. So the only way I can buy your argument on this point is if I thought it actually takes logic to extend your arm, pick the apple and proceed to eat it. I don't.

I am hungry.That apple is WAY over there, on that tree... how can I solve this problem?

So walking to the tree requires problem solving logic?

I guess remembering to breath in and then out requires problem solving too.

 

[JBeukema]

In Eden there would've been no problems. As for your example of how to get an apple out of a tree, in Eden one would always be within arm's reach. So the only way I can buy your argument on this point is if I thought it actually takes logic to extend your arm, pick the apple and proceed to eat it. I don't.

I am hungry.That apple is WAY over there, on that tree... how can I solve this problem?

So walking to the tree requires problem solving logic?

Yes, tits, getting to the apple tree, climbing up, taking an apple- all very logical. Very rudimentary, but clearly involves some level of planning and problem-solving. While eating may be pro-programmed (instinctive), climbing trees is a learned behavior in humans.


Of course, you don't want to admit that, because logic is sinful.


Did anyone notice that not a single theist took th opportunity to refute or disagree with Martin Luther on the evils of reason?

 

[del]

I am hungry.That apple is WAY over there, on that tree... how can I solve this problem?

So walking to the tree requires problem solving logic?

Yes, tits, getting to the apple tree, climbing up, taking an apple- all very logical. Very rudimentary, but clearly involves some level of planning and problem-solving. While eating may be pro-programmed (instinctive), climbing trees is a learned behavior in humans.


Of course, you don't want to admit that, because logic is sinful.


Did anyone notice that not a single theist took th opportunity to refute or disagree with Martin Luther on the evils of reason?

no. no one cares.
this thread's hilarious, though.

 

[manifold]

I am hungry.That apple is WAY over there, on that tree... how can I solve this problem?

So walking to the tree requires problem solving logic?

Yes, tits, getting to the apple tree, climbing up, taking an apple- all very logical. Very rudimentary, but clearly involves some level of planning and problem-solving. While eating may be pro-programmed (instinctive), climbing trees is a learned behavior in humans.


Of course, you don't want to admit that, because logic is sinful.


Did anyone notice that not a single theist took th opportunity to refute or disagree with Martin Luther on the evils of reason?

Looks like someone's been using his jump to conclusions mat again.

At some point I might explain why you're all stupid for allowing me to take you down this path of the discussion, but for now it's just too damn funny.

 

[JBeukema]

Sorry, Mani, but you're just not entertaining anymore, without the tits.

 

[del]

Sorry, Mani, but you're just not entertaining anymore, without the tits.

mani's not the one doing the entertaining here, toots.

 

[manifold]

Sorry, Mani, but you're just not entertaining anymore, without the tits.

You cut me deep.

 

[Gurdari]

Since it was Satan who introduced us to the pursuit of knowledge, shouldn't devout theists of all stripes denounce critical reasoning and logic as the work of the Devil?

Of course they use critical reasoning... in all areas except one.
Knowledge is NOT the same as logic however, one can have lots of one or the other in a given situation - though a combination of both works best.