Religion, Bible, Koran, Torah, Monotheism

[ST34]

this text comes from site: postst.cjb.net/religion.php and isn't mine

(English is not native language of author of this text)

Real origin of monotheism

First some citations from Code of Hammurabi (trans. by R.F Harper, 1904):

"at that time, Anu and Bel called me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, the worshiper of the gods, to cause justice to prevail in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil, to prevent the strong from oppressing the weak, to go forth like the Sun over the Black Head Race, to enlighten the land and to further the welfare of the people.
Hammurabi, the governor named by Bel, am I, who brought about plenty and abundance; who made everything for Nippur and Durilu complete; the exalted supporter of E-kur
the wise king, who restored Eridu to its place; who purified the sanctuary' of E-apsu stormed the four quarters of the world; who made the fame of Babylon great; who rejoiced the heart of Marduk, his lord; who daily served in Esagila
of the seed royal, which Sin begat; who filled the city of Ur with plenty; the pious and suppliant one who brought abundance to E-gis-sir-gal; the diplomatic king, obedient to the mighty Shamash; who refounded Sippar; who clothed with green the shrines of Malkat; who decorated E-babbara, which is like a heavenly dwelling
the warrior, the protector of Larsa; who rebuilt E-babbara for Shamash, his helper the lord, who gave life to the city of Uruk; who supplied water in abundance to its inhabitants; who raised the turrets of Eanna; who brought riches to Anu and Nana
the divine protector of the land; who collected the scattered people of Nisin; who supplied E-gal-mah with luxurious abundance
(---)
the illustrious prince, the lifting up of whose hands Adad recognizes; who pacifies the heart of Adad, the warrior, in Karkar; who re-established the appointments in E-ud-gal-gal; the king who gave life to Ud-nun-ki; the benefactor of the temple E-rash
(---)
who founded dwelling-places for them in plenty; who determined for all time the splendid sacrifices for Ea and Dam-gal-nunna, who had extended his dominion
(---)
the powerful king, the Sun of Babylon, who caused light to go forth over the lands of Sumer and Akkad; the king, who caused the four quarters of the world to render obedience; the favorite of Nana, am I
(---)
196.If a man destroy the eye of another man, they shall destroy his eye
197.If one break a man's bone, they shall break his bone.
192. If the son of a NER.SE.GA, or the son of a devotee, say to his father who has reared him, or his mother who has reared him: "My father thou art not," "My mother thou art not," they shall cut out his tongue.
(---)
The righteous laws, which Hammurabi, the wise king, established and (by which) he gave the land stable support and pure government
Hammurabi, the perfect king, am I
I was not careless, nor was I neglectful of the Black-Head people, whose rule Bel presented and Marduk delivered to me. I provided them with a peaceful country. I opened up difficult barriers and lent them support
With the powerful weapon which Za-ma-ma and Nasa entrusted to me, with the breadth of vision which Ea allotted me, with the might which Marduk gave me, I expelled the enemy to the North and South; I made an end of their raids: I brought health to the land and I am the guardian governor, whose scepter is righteous and whose beneficent protection is spread over my city. In my bosom I carried tile people of the land of Sumer and Akkad; under my protection I brought their brethren into security; in my wisdom I restrained (hid) them
that the strong might not oppose the weak, and that they should give justice to the orphan and the widow, in Babylon, the city whose turrets Anu and Bel raised; in Esagila, the temple whose foundations are firm as heaven and earth, for the pronouncing of judgments in the land, for the rendering of decisions for tile land, and for the righting of wrong, my weighty words I have written upon my monument, and in tile presence of my image as king of righteousness have I established.
(---)
Hammurabi, the king of righteousness, whom Shamash has endowed with justice, am I, My words are weighty; my deeds are unrivaled ... and the bringing to honor."

As we can see the similarity beetwen bible and this text is huge; it can affirm hypothesis that holy scripture was 'rewrite' from older texts, especially babylonian. In bible there is many stories took over babylonian and egyptian mythology and religion. For example, the story about deluge came from babylonian epos Gilgamesh, the story about Tower of Babel speak about ziggurat Etemenanki, the figure of tempter snike duplicate bad snike Apep a main opponent of egiptian god Ra etc. The real founder of monotheism was Amenhotep IV (d. in 1334 BC), Moses (about 1300-1250 BC) only copied his conception.
Torah is the pentateuch (first five books of Bible). Koran is according to beliefs of Mussulmans improved and cleaned copy of the Bible. Whereas the Bible is a plagiarism from older Babylonian writings.

KRIIN, 2007

text of the translation of the code made by R.F.Harper you can get from Wikipedia

 

[Care4all]

yes, I have just started delving in to this...it is very similar and more than likely, the stories of the deluge and tower of babel and other stories are from earlier times.

After all, Abraham was from the Iraq area, Mesopotamia....babylon...region.

this is why I keep all doors opened, so to learn....

 

[i/3ootleg]

wtf does this prove? lol

link some sources.

just copying and pasting text isn't enough to affirm that you're creditable

 

[KittenKoder]

Problem with mythology, it stems from somewhere and many stem from the few oldest religions. Many of the christian biblical stories are actually based on those from Ancient Egypt.

 

[ST34]

wtf does this prove? lol

link some sources.

just copying and pasting text isn't enough to affirm that you're creditable

lol

 

[wvulax]

"Many of the christian biblical stories are actually based on those from Ancient Egypt."

No way man. Jesus is real.

 

[ST34]

in some other thread:

it is worth to remember that no philosophical tenet of the absolute (first to the best of my memory appeared in India in Upanishad), nor the so called mysticism which is her religious version, did not appear himself, if first a lot earlier would not come into being the monotheism, created by Amenhotep IV

this form of the religion came into being as result of mental disorders caused by Marfan syndrome on which suffered this Pharaoh, and was with difficulty intelligible for contemporary people accustomed to the polytheism

the idea of the absolute is only a prolongation of this abnormal theory, and it is in every version, independently from of this whether it will be brahmanism, platonism, neopythagoreanism, hegelianism etc.

 

[garyd]

Vague similarities do not demonstrate a link let alone prove that anyone borrowed anything from anyone else.

This is the sort of straw at which atheists clutch when something unsettling occurs.

It reminds me more than a Bit of Scrooge in his room after seeing Marley's apparition in his door knocker. Oh it's just indigestion, a bit of half cooked meat poorly digested.

 

[ST34]

Vague similarities do not demonstrate a link let alone prove that anyone borrowed anything from anyone else.

if fact all mentioned systems are only versions of idea of Amenhotep

This is the sort of straw at which atheists clutch when something unsettling occurs.

this these systems, and conception of Amenhotep, are the sort of straw

It reminds me more than a Bit of Scrooge in his room after seeing Marley's apparition in his door knocker. Oh it's just indigestion, a bit of half cooked meat poorly digested.

remember that Scrooge and Marley are only a literary fiction, as same as your absolute

 

[Hum Dinger]

I don't think that the idea that Judaism was not created in a vacuum in any way debunks it. Obviously, the basic concepts of religion and morality existed before Abraham. There was civilization.

The most important and evolutionary aspect of early Judaism is the concept of monotheism, which in turn precludes the concept of a single universal moral code.

I don't think that the text above in any way indicates that monotheism existed prior to Abraham.

But what is infinitely more interesting is that once the notion of a single universal moral code and the God that represented it was accepted, how that moral code has evolved as human society evolved. It eventually reached a point where the moral code of the early Jews (who were a bunch of brutal barbarians) and the moral code of not only Christianity, but of rabinical Judiasim are in fact two entirely opposing moral codes.

In fact the moral code of the early Jews had more in common with the modern day Islamic fundamentalist and terrorists than with that of Christianity and Rabinical Judaism.

For example, the plagues used by Moses to terrorize the Egyptians would today be considered terrorism. If God was reponsible for those plagues than God certainly supports terrorism

Possibly, if God is representative of a universal moral code than the God of Jesus and Rabinical Judaism simply IS NOT THE SAME GOD as the GOD of Moses and Abraham.

Or is God bipolar?

 

[Avatar4321]

I am astonished... Holy crap! Now I must be claiming to be God...

Seriously?

BTW the Bible and Torah dont teach monotheism.

 

[ST34]

Holy crap!

bible is a Holy crap

God of Jesus and Rabinical Judaism simply IS NOT THE SAME GOD as the GOD of Moses and Abraham.

certainly, gods of Abraham were Marduk and some other idols, god of Moses Aton, and god of Jesus Yahwe

I don't think that the text above in any way indicates that monotheism existed prior to Abraham.

but it did not exist also in times of Abraham

monotheism was created by Akhenaton (Amenhotep IV), Moses only copied his conception

this what was well-known to Abraham was modified by Hammurabi polytheism (this ruler made Marduk national god), and Babylonian mythology with texts

monotheism as drastic modification of polytheism came into being as effect of mental disorders caused by Marfan's syndrome on which suffered Akhenaton

important is that

holy scripture was 'rewrite' from older texts, especially babylonian

and especially from 'Code of Hammurabi', compare style and literally copied phrases

 

[Avatar4321]

But Moses wasnt a monotheist

 

[Care4all]

Holy crap!

bible is a Holy crap

God of Jesus and Rabinical Judaism simply IS NOT THE SAME GOD as the GOD of Moses and Abraham.

certainly, gods of Abraham were Marduk and some other idols, god of Moses Aton, and god of Jesus Yahwe

I don't think that the text above in any way indicates that monotheism existed prior to Abraham.

but it did not exist also in times of Abraham

monotheism was created by Akhenaton (Amenhotep IV), Moses only copied his conception

this what was well-known to Abraham was modified by Hammurabi polytheism (this ruler made Marduk national god), and Babylonian mythology with texts

monotheism as drastic modification of polytheism came into being as effect of mental disorders caused by Marfan's syndrome on which suffered Akhenaton

important is that

holy scripture was 'rewrite' from older texts, especially babylonian

and especially from 'Code of Hammurabi', compare style and literally copied phrases

Akhenaten was born after the birth of Moses, which is calculated at about 1390 bc, and the hebrew believed in one God, long before that...

and akhenaten was not a monotheist.

Akhenaten
Amenhotep IV
Amenophis IV, Naphu(`)rureya, Ikhnaton[1]

Akhenaten (pronounced /ˌɑːkəˈnɑːtən/;[1] often also spelled Echnaton, Akhnaton, or rarely Ikhnaton; meaning Effective spirit of Aten, was known before the fifth year of his reign as Amenhotep IV (sometimes given its Greek form, Amenophis IV, and meaning Amun is Satisfied). A Pharaoh of the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt, he ruled for 17 years and died in 1336 BC or 1334 BC. He is especially noted for abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism and introducing worship centered on the Aten which is sometimes described as monotheistic, but henotheism would be a more accurate description, since he ranked the Aten above other gods but did not deny their existence. Indeed, an early inscription likens them to stars as compared with the sun, and later official language avoids calling the Aten a god, as if to create for the solar deity a status above mere gods. While not the precursor of Judeo-Christian thought that some, such as Sigmund Freud or early Egyptologist James Henry Breasted would have had him be, Akhenaten tried to bring about a departure from traditional religion that in the end would not be accepted. After his death, traditional religious practice was gradually restored, and when some dozen years later rulers without clear rights of succession from the Eighteenth Dynasty founded a new dynasty, they discredited Akhenaten and his immediate successors, referring to Akhenaten himself as 'the enemy' in archival records.[5] He was all but lost from history until the discovery, in the nineteenth century, of Amarna, the site of Akhetaten, the city he built for the Aten. Early excavations at Amarna by Flinders Petrie sparked interest in the enigmatic pharaoh which increased with the discovery in the Valley of the Kings, at Luxor, of the tomb of King Tutankhamun, who may have been his son. Akhenaten remains an interesting figure, as does his Queen, Nefertiti. Their modern interest comes partly from his connection with Tutankhamun, partly from the unique style and high quality of the pictorial arts he patronized, and partly from ongoing interest in--and, all too often, less than verifiable claims about--the religion he attempted to establish.

care

 

[ST34]

From Britannica:

Akhenaton
flourished 14th century BC, Egypt
king of Egypt (1353–36 BC) of the 18th dynasty, who established a new monotheistic cult of Aton (hence his assumed name, Akhenaton, meaning “One Useful to Aton&#8221.

14th century = 1400 - 1300 BC

Moses
flourished 14th–13th century BC
Hebrew prophet, teacher, and leader who, in the 13th century BCE (before the Common Era, or BC), delivered his people from Egyptian slavery

13th century = 1300 - 1200 BC

thus Moses was born tens years after Akhenaton

again Britannica (from Monotheism):

Much attention has been given to the reform of Egyptian religion as effected by the pharaoh Akhenaton (Amenophis IV) in the 14th century BC. This reform has been judged in many ways, favourably and unfavourably; it is, however, clear that Akhenaton's theology, if not fully monotheistic, in any case strongly tends toward monotheism. It is even possible to follow the gradual development of his ideas in this direction. At first he only singled out Aton, one of the forms of the sun god, for particular worship, but gradually this kind of henotheism developed in the direction of exclusive monotheism and even took on the intolerance peculiar to this religious concept. The names of the other gods were to be deleted.

before Akhenaton were known only monolatry and henoteism

if you are quoting wikipedia Care4all, then you should know that it isn't especially authoritative source of informations, contains many errors and distortions

Brytannica possesses considerably larger authority and level of its articles is almost always a lot higher

 

[Care4all]

From Britannica:

Akhenaton
flourished 14th century BC, Egypt
king of Egypt (1353–36 BC) of the 18th dynasty, who established a new monotheistic cult of Aton (hence his assumed name, Akhenaton, meaning “One Useful to Aton&#8221.

14th century = 1400 - 1300 BC

Moses
flourished 14th–13th century BC
Hebrew prophet, teacher, and leader who, in the 13th century BCE (before the Common Era, or BC), delivered his people from Egyptian slavery

13th century = 1300 - 1200 BC

thus Moses was born tens years after Akhenaton

again Britannica:

Much attention has been given to the reform of Egyptian religion as effected by the pharaoh Akhenaton (Amenophis IV) in the 14th century BC. This reform has been judged in many ways, favourably and unfavourably; it is, however, clear that Akhenaton's theology, if not fully monotheistic, in any case strongly tends toward monotheism. It is even possible to follow the gradual development of his ideas in this direction. At first he only singled out Aton, one of the forms of the sun god, for particular worship, but gradually this kind of henotheism developed in the direction of exclusive monotheism and even took on the intolerance peculiar to this religious concept. The names of the other gods were to be deleted.

before Akhenaton were known only monolatry and henoteism

akhenaten died 1334bc or 1336 bc.(from what I read, it was one or the other)...estimated to be 38 years old when he died....so born about 1372-1374 bc

moses was born approximately 1391 bc....lived about 120 years so that puts him alive until around 1271 bc. or so...

In the Bible the narratives of Moses are in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy while the main source for Moses' life is the Book of Exodus. The Book of Exodus takes up the narrative 230 years after the arrival of Jacob in Egypt. According to the Book of Exodus, Moses was a son of Amram, a member of the Levite tribe of Israel, having descended from Jacob, and his wife Jochebed.[5] Jochebed (also Yocheved) was kin to Amram's father Kehath (Exodus 6:20). Moses had one older (by seven years) sister, Miriam, and one older (by three years) brother, Aaron.[5] According to Genesis 46:11, Amram's father Kehath immigrated to Egypt with 70 of Jacob's household, making Moses part of the second generation of Israelites born during their time in Egypt.[6]
Moses in front of Pharaoh by Haydar Hatemi, Persian Artist.

In the Exodus account, the birth of Moses, on 7 Adar[7] 2368[8] (about Feb-Mar 1391 BC), occurred at a time when the current Egyptian Pharaoh had commanded that all male Hebrew children born be killed by drowning in the river Nile. The Torah and Flavius Josephus leave the identity of this Pharaoh unstated.[9] Jochebed, the wife of the Levite Amram, bore a son and kept him concealed for three months.[5][10][11] When she could keep him hidden no longer, rather than deliver him to be killed, she set him adrift on the Nile River in a small craft of bulrushes coated in pitch.

Abraham, who was one of Moses great grandfathers, who was also a monotheist... had a covenant with God, was born around 1800 bc.

So, even though Moses was born before Akhenaten as i explained above, monotheism took place with Abraham, at least 400 years earlier than moses which means that ahkenaten....was not the first to invent monotheism, if this is what you were even trying to say? I admit, i came in to the thread near the very end and hadn't read all the threads above it so I could have possibly jumped the gun?

And since Akhenaton allowed others to still worship their Gods, he certainly, in my humble opinion was not a true promoter of Monotheism as I know it in the beginning , which is only one God, with no other gods put before Him or us.

Btw, thank you for arguing this with me, I took what you said and needed to know whether what you said was true or not, according to what we do know about the time...

this forced me to research several things, because I by no means know the old testament by heart or the history at the time by heart! I enjoyed doing the reading up on all of this and on Akhenaten, and after finding out that moses was born before him, it actually leaves open the possibility that akhenaten got whiff of the one God that Moses believed in due to what happened to Ramses and perhaps akhenaten got his inspiration to support one God above all gods from the Exodus/Moses incident?

Hey, I am hopeless on this so don't think you will ever convert me to Atheism!!!!

But I don't mind debating the issue, like we have been.

Care

 

[Al Gunn]

So in other words Care, you really have no clue even after all your "studying".

 

[Care4all]

So in other words Care, you really have no clue even after all your "studying".

hahahahaha! ya think so? wouldn't be the first time someone thought i was clueless!!!!!!!

 

[Al Gunn]

So in other words Care, you really have no clue even after all your "studying".

hahahahaha! ya think so? wouldn't be the first time someone thought i was clueless!!!!!!!

Isn't that why your hubby married you?

 

[Care4all]

So in other words Care, you really have no clue even after all your "studying".

hahahahaha! ya think so? wouldn't be the first time someone thought i was clueless!!!!!!!

Isn't that why your hubby married you?

my husband married me for good sex, just ask him! Love came in there somewhere too though!