Do The Wealthy Even Pay Taxes?

[Boss]

Who are you to say who is poor or not. Either you make $10,000 a year or you don't. End of story.

Again... $10k is not a measure of my wealth, it's just an income for the year. I may be a billionaire for all you know. The fact that I only made $10k in income doesn't tell you anything about my wealth.

 

[maxo]

And the less money you make, a higher percentage of your income goes towards paying taxes.

This is also NOT TRUE... 40% of income earners pay NO taxes whatsoever on income. The lowest income earners generally get an EIC which gives them more in refunds than they paid in taxes. But what all of these composited graphs do is they factor in sales taxes, gasoline taxes, school taxes, etc. That's going to skew the information wildly, but that's what propagandists do.

Where do those 40% get their money. Dealing drugs or other black market activities? I have had many jobs in my life. In many different states. ALL of them took tax money from my weekly check. Neither have I EVER heard of anybody getting more tax money back than they paid in.

Next, you bring up another way in which the poor pay more. Say a poor person who only makes $10,000 a year bought a pair of jeans. Let's say the sales tax was $2.00. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. Now what if somebody made $100,000 a year and bought the same pair of jeans. Which he too paid $2.00 in sales tax. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. And to that you can add gas, insurance, paper towels, postage stamps or any of the zillions of other things that somebody buys. Like it or not, when it comes to the percentage of their income, the poor pay more.

 

[Boss]

Next, did you go to the website I mentioned where I found those statistics? It didn't come off as some sort of commie website. Maybe you would prefer the conservative websites that say that the wealthy pay far more than their fair share of taxes. But if you do that, you are either A. Wealthy, or B. a sucker.

I usually don't go to websites and gulp down their koolaid. I was only going by what was posted on the graphic... it defined "low income earners" as "Poorest 20%" and my argument is, income and wealth are two entirely different things. I see that kind of crap and I already know it's propaganda. I don't care where it came from.

They are not telling you in their graphic that the "Top 1%" are mostly small business owners who legitimately have a list of business deductions as long as your arm which legitimately mitigates their tax liability. Most importantly, people who earn high incomes are not RICH PEOPLE! I know that's hard to accept but it's true... the vast and overwhelming majority of actual "RICH PEOPLE" don't have earned incomes anymore... they're rich... they already earned their incomes!

 

[Boss]

Where do those 40% get their money. Dealing drugs or other black market activities? I have had many jobs in my life. In many different states. ALL of them took tax money from my weekly check. Neither have I EVER heard of anybody getting more tax money back than they paid in.

No they are legitimate wage earners. You got a tax refund each year, didn't you?

Maybe you missed out on the recent upgrade in Earned Income Credit where people below a certain income can claim up to $1,500 in tax credit, even if they didn't pay that much in taxes for the year.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour.

How'd he do that? Any specifics?

Well he was the CEO of microsoft, wasn't he?

He was. You think his salary was $1.38 million an hour?

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it.

You KNOW that was his salary?
LOL!

Find an annual statement to back up your claim, or I'll continue to mock your ignorance.

You don't need to believe me. But if you are really interested, look it up yourself. Tell me if you find anything that says differently. If you dare.

You don't need to believe me.

I don't believe your BS.

But if you are really interested, look it up yourself.

You have no proof? That's a shocker.

 

[maxo]

Balancing the budget is impossible. That would mean the wealthy paying their fair share.

AGAIN... WE DO NOT TAX WEALTH! How many times do I need to repeat that?

Also, losing 300 billion to 700 billion to China each year doesn't help.

We're not "losing" anything. You don't think we get something for that money? If we buy $200 million in electronic components and create $10 billion in computers with it, are we not better off?

Because of the trade imbalance with mexico, around 65 billion dollars leaves the U.S. pocket each year.

Again, it doesn't just leave our pocket... we get something in return and it has a value. It's like saying $100 leaves my wallet each week at the grocery store... well, I bought some food with it! The money didn't just fly out of my wallet into the grocery store owner's pocket.

There isn't anything made in other countries that we can't make here.

True, but again... I refer you to my analogy about your clothes... do you make your own or do you buy them already made? Sometimes it's cheaper for us to buy things made elsewhere.

First, we do get something for our money. Debt. Deal with it. Next, what if we made 200 million dollars worth of electronic components and made 10 billion dollars worth of computers from it, what would we lose? Well I can tell you what we would gain. Taxing the income of the workers who made the 200 million dollars worth of electronic components.

Next, your grocery store analogy doesn't work. Debt is debt is debt. The debt exists. It exists because what you think you are getting for the money is a load of horse shit. Next, if our economy was constructed around the work needed to make our own clothing, we would have the time and ability to do it. Next, if it was in fact "cheaper" to buy things from China, we wouldn't be losing anywhere from 300 billion dollars to over 700 billion dollars to them each year. And when I say "lose," I mean debt.

 

[Boss]

Next, you bring up another way in which the poor pay more. Say a poor person who only makes $10,000 a year bought a pair of jeans. Let's say the sales tax was $2.00. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. Now what if somebody made $100,000 a year and bought the same pair of jeans. Which he too paid $2.00 in sales tax. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. And to that you can add gas, insurance, paper towels, postage stamps or any of the zillions of other things that somebody buys. Like it or not, when it comes to the percentage of their income, the poor pay more.

But EVERYBODY has to pay those. Hey look... Bill Gates can buy a $100k car to haul groceries in... I'd have to LIVE in such a car! Rich people can buy more than poor people can... not a lot we can do about that unless we take everyone's wealth like they do in North Korea.

This is called "Class Warfare" and it's the tool of Socialist Marxists. It is fully intended to play on your envy and jealousy of others who have more than you. It worked beautifully across Europe and Asia where people are born into their class and that's where they live their whole life because that's how things are. But in THIS country, you are perfectly FREE to achieve ANY class you desire and millions of people have.

 

[maxo]

Who are you to say who is poor or not. Either you make $10,000 a year or you don't. End of story.

Again... $10k is not a measure of my wealth, it's just an income for the year. I may be a billionaire for all you know. The fact that I only made $10k in income doesn't tell you anything about my wealth.

It is a measure of wealth if you earn a weekly income and at the end of the year all those weekly checks added up to $10,000. Am I leaving out what the tooth fairy may have left under the pillow?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone.

Loses? Can you define loses?

Why. Can't you?

If I buy $100 of Chinese goods, I don't consider that a $100 loss. Do you? Why?

Would you be buying it with American money? Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money. Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand. When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money. If the things being made by Chinese for example are sold here, it is more likely to be the Chinese maker who gets the lions share of the money. Rather than the American economy.\

Let me guess. You like "free trade." Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour? Earth to toddsterpatriot. Time to land.

Would you be buying it with American money?

No, I'd be buying it with my money.
Currently, I use US dollars.

Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money.

How is it a loss? I saw more value in the product than I did in the cash, that's why I voluntarily made the trade.

Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand.

Yes, your simpleton explanations are humorous, please continue. LOL!

When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money.

And the person who bought the thing gets the thing. DERP!

Let me guess. You like "free trade."

Freedom, gotta love it. Except for you, apparently.

Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour?

That's an interesting discussion that has nothing to do with your claim that a purchase from China is a loss.

When I buy $20 worth of gasoline, am I losing $20?
Or am I buying the ability to drive my car around, get to work, go to the store, promote commerce generally, live my life specifically?

Is that really how you look at things? Take a shit now, worry about toilet paper later? Let me try to explain things in a way that even you might understand. When you are in debt, you have nothing. You are in debt! Right now, the U.S. is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. Do you know what that means? It means that it may as well be 40 trillion dollars. That in turn means your money is worthless. And the more money you ship off to China by buying their goods, the more worthless it becomes.

Of course, there is a way out of this debt. All we have to do is sell the U.S. to China. So why not. Instead of doing it the slow way you prefer. We a;so have around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. I bet the Chinese could fix that too. All they would have to do is give everybody a water buffalo and a rice patty to shit in. Unfortunately for you, I don't think any of that should be done.

Is that really how you look at things?

Yes. I don't consider a purchase to be a loss.
That's an idiotic viewpoint you hold.

When you are in debt, you have nothing.

Me freely choosing what to spend my money on did not cause the US government to overspend.

Do you know what that means?

The government should spend less.

That in turn means your money is worthless.

My money is not worthless. I buy things with it all the time.

Of course, there is a way out of this debt.

The government should spend less.

We a;so have around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations.

The government should spend less.

 

[maxo]

Where do those 40% get their money. Dealing drugs or other black market activities? I have had many jobs in my life. In many different states. ALL of them took tax money from my weekly check. Neither have I EVER heard of anybody getting more tax money back than they paid in.

No they are legitimate wage earners. You got a tax refund each year, didn't you?

Maybe you missed out on the recent upgrade in Earned Income Credit where people below a certain income can claim up to $1,500 in tax credit, even if they didn't pay that much in taxes for the year.

As a wage earner, I never had any dealings with that sort of thing. But even if it does happen, I would consider it as just a little payback from the taxes that the wealthy don't pay.

 

[Boss]

First, we do get something for our money. Debt. Deal with it. Next, what if we made 200 million dollars worth of electronic components and made 10 billion dollars worth of computers from it, what would we lose? Well I can tell you what we would gain. Taxing the income of the workers who made the 200 million dollars worth of electronic components.

Next, your grocery store analogy doesn't work. Debt is debt is debt. The debt exists. It exists because what you think you are getting for the money is a load of horse shit. Next, if our economy was constructed around the work needed to make our own clothing, we would have the time and ability to do it. Next, if it was in fact "cheaper" to buy things from China, we wouldn't be losing anywhere from 300 billion dollars to over 700 billion dollars to them each year. And when I say "lose," I mean debt.

You're totally missing the point... We CAN'T make the electronic components for $200 million... it may cost us $2 billion! So we would lose $1.8 billion in profit.

Trade deficit does not equal DEBT! Where else can the Chinese spend an American dollar? They can't spend it in China!

And yeah, you could spend 8 hrs. a day making your own clothing.... as opposed to buying a $2 shirt at Walmart and spending those 8 hours earning $30/hr to troubleshoot an IT problem. Which way would you be better off?

 

[Boss]

As a wage earner, I never had any dealings with that sort of thing. But even if it does happen, I would consider it as just a little payback from the taxes that the wealthy don't pay.

A-GAIN.... WE DO NOT TAX WEALTH!!!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

First, we do get something for our money. Debt. Deal with it. Next, what if we made 200 million dollars worth of electronic components and made 10 billion dollars worth of computers from it, what would we lose? Well I can tell you what we would gain. Taxing the income of the workers who made the 200 million dollars worth of electronic components.

Next, your grocery store analogy doesn't work. Debt is debt is debt. The debt exists. It exists because what you think you are getting for the money is a load of horse shit. Next, if our economy was constructed around the work needed to make our own clothing, we would have the time and ability to do it. Next, if it was in fact "cheaper" to buy things from China, we wouldn't be losing anywhere from 300 billion dollars to over 700 billion dollars to them each year. And when I say "lose," I mean debt.

You're totally missing the point... We CAN'T make the electronic components for $200 million... it may cost us $2 billion! So we would lose $1.8 billion in profit.

Trade deficit does not equal DEBT! Where else can the Chinese spend an American dollar? They can't spend it in China!

And yeah, you could spend 8 hrs. a day making your own clothing.... as opposed to buying a $2 shirt at Walmart and spending those 8 hours earning $30/hr to troubleshoot an IT problem. Which way would you be better off?

And yeah, you could spend 8 hrs. a day making your own clothing.... as opposed to buying a $2 shirt at Walmart and spending those 8 hours earning $30/hr to troubleshoot an IT problem.

He doesn't get $30/hr running the fry machine at McDs, but he is still better off buying the Chinese clothing.
Even if he's too stupid to realize it.

 

[maxo]

Next, you bring up another way in which the poor pay more. Say a poor person who only makes $10,000 a year bought a pair of jeans. Let's say the sales tax was $2.00. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. Now what if somebody made $100,000 a year and bought the same pair of jeans. Which he too paid $2.00 in sales tax. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. And to that you can add gas, insurance, paper towels, postage stamps or any of the zillions of other things that somebody buys. Like it or not, when it comes to the percentage of their income, the poor pay more.

But EVERYBODY has to pay those. Hey look... Bill Gates can buy a $100k car to haul groceries in... I'd have to LIVE in such a car! Rich people can buy more than poor people can... not a lot we can do about that unless we take everyone's wealth like they do in North Korea.

This is called "Class Warfare" and it's the tool of Socialist Marxists. It is fully intended to play on your envy and jealousy of others who have more than you. It worked beautifully across Europe and Asia where people are born into their class and that's where they live their whole life because that's how things are. But in THIS country, you are perfectly FREE to achieve ANY class you desire and millions of people have.

Nobody is against the wealthy having more. Especially if they earned it. And not have it fall into their lap like a modern day titled aristocrat. And the class warfare isn't a Marxist tool. Chimpanzees and many other creatures do the same sort of thing.

Also, I remember seeing something on 60 Minutes where they would take children and set them at a table with a four sectioned checkerboard type of thing in front of them. On the section near them on the left, there were a few things that the child would value. Across from it, there was nothing. On the right near them, there were more of the things the child would value. Across from it there were a few of the things a child would value. The children were told that whatever section near them that they chose, some other child would get what was across from it. The vast majority of the children chose the fewer items. As long as it meant that some other child would receive nothing at all. I guess it is a built in sort of status thing.

They did something else where they would bring children is a room to take a small test. They were also given a sheet that was placed face down on a desk with the answers on it. Which they were told to not look at. Half of the desks were those small kind that had a little table attached to it. The other half of the desks were large, nice desks. I don't think any of the children seated at the small desks cheated and looked at the answers. But a good number, maybe even most seated at the large desks did. What all this is getting at is that for the wealthy, there is no such thing as too much.

If you want to see the things I mentioned, I think they can all be found by looking up the episode of 60 minutes called "Bigoted Babies."

 

[maxo]

As a wage earner, I never had any dealings with that sort of thing. But even if it does happen, I would consider it as just a little payback from the taxes that the wealthy don't pay.

A-GAIN.... WE DO NOT TAX WEALTH!!!!

I was talking about taxing income. Not wealth.

 

[Boss]

Who are you to say who is poor or not. Either you make $10,000 a year or you don't. End of story.

Again... $10k is not a measure of my wealth, it's just an income for the year. I may be a billionaire for all you know. The fact that I only made $10k in income doesn't tell you anything about my wealth.

It is a measure of wealth if you earn a weekly income and at the end of the year all those weekly checks added up to $10,000. Am I leaving out what the tooth fairy may have left under the pillow?

It's certainly NOT a measure of wealth... it's a measure of income earned for the year. It has nothing to do with your wealth. Why is this not computing in your brain? If all my checks add up to $10k for the year... AND.... I also have $50 billion in the bank.... am I poor or rich? So how are my checks a measure of my wealth?

 

[Boss]

As a wage earner, I never had any dealings with that sort of thing. But even if it does happen, I would consider it as just a little payback from the taxes that the wealthy don't pay.

A-GAIN.... WE DO NOT TAX WEALTH!!!!

I was talking about taxing income. Not wealth.

Oh sorry... when you say things like "taxes the wealthy don't pay" it sounds like you think we tax wealth and not income.

 

[Boss]

Next, you bring up another way in which the poor pay more. Say a poor person who only makes $10,000 a year bought a pair of jeans. Let's say the sales tax was $2.00. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. Now what if somebody made $100,000 a year and bought the same pair of jeans. Which he too paid $2.00 in sales tax. What percentage of his yearly income would that be. And to that you can add gas, insurance, paper towels, postage stamps or any of the zillions of other things that somebody buys. Like it or not, when it comes to the percentage of their income, the poor pay more.

But EVERYBODY has to pay those. Hey look... Bill Gates can buy a $100k car to haul groceries in... I'd have to LIVE in such a car! Rich people can buy more than poor people can... not a lot we can do about that unless we take everyone's wealth like they do in North Korea.

This is called "Class Warfare" and it's the tool of Socialist Marxists. It is fully intended to play on your envy and jealousy of others who have more than you. It worked beautifully across Europe and Asia where people are born into their class and that's where they live their whole life because that's how things are. But in THIS country, you are perfectly FREE to achieve ANY class you desire and millions of people have.

Nobody is against the wealthy having more. Especially if they earned it. And not have it fall into their lap like a modern day titled aristocrat. And the class warfare isn't a Marxist tool. Chimpanzees and many other creatures do the same sort of thing.

Also, I remember seeing something on 60 Minutes where they would take children and set them at a table with a four sectioned checkerboard type of thing in front of them. On the section near them on the left, there were a few things that the child would value. Across from it, there was nothing. On the right near them, there were more of the things the child would value. Across from it there were a few of the things a child would value. The children were told that whatever section near them that they chose, some other child would get what was across from it. The vast majority of the children chose the fewer items. As long as it meant that some other child would receive nothing at all. I guess it is a built in sort of status thing.

They did something else where they would bring children is a room to take a small test. They were also given a sheet that was placed face down on a desk with the answers on it. Which they were told to not look at. Half of the desks were those small kind that had a little table attached to it. The other half of the desks were large, nice desks. I don't think any of the children seated at the small desks cheated and looked at the answers. But a good number, maybe even most seated at the large desks did. What all this is getting at is that for the wealthy, there is no such thing as too much.

If you want to see the things I mentioned, I think they can all be found by looking up the episode of 60 minutes called "Bigoted Babies."

Thanks for the comparison of Marxist philosophy with the thinking of chimps and children... apropos indeed! Well done sir!

Again... Go study how Marxism became popular. You will find that it was promoted to the masses across Europe and Asia using the same exact "Class Warfare" tactics we see today from the progressive left. Whenever you have people who feel hopeless, like they can't escape the class they are in... the idea of Marxism is appealing. The thing is, the American Dream has never been hopeless... our free market capitalist free enterprise system churns out more millionaires and billionaires than anything man has ever created. You're not confined to your class in this country. That's how you can go, literally, from being a sexually-molested black girl living in a tar-paper shack in Mississippi to the wealthiest woman in America... ask Oprah Winfrey.

You know who inspired me more than anyone in my life? A Cuban immigrant who I worked for as a teen. He could barely speak English, he never graduated high school. He came to America with the shirt on his back and $2. He built one of the most successful and popular Italian food chains in the South... it took him about 17 years. I looked at him and thought, if he can do it, anyone can do it!

 

[bornright]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

The only fair way to tax everyone is to take away some of the "luxury deduction" that only the very wealthy get. The only president to do that was Ronald Reagan. Liberals be aware the ones that scream the loudest about this is the democrats. The wealthiest in this country are democrats. It is unfair to tax those that are working and striving to be wealthy and yet we allow people like the Kennedy family to go freely with old family money that has been passed down to them. I personally do not believe in the death tax for anyone even the Kennedy's who have avoided such through the use of a complicated system and the use of their tax lawyers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously.

Cool!
You have a list?

On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all.

It's true, if they make no profits, they pay no taxes.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that.

It's about 4 times what the average worker makes.
But don't let reality ruin your rant.

Banks in Switzerland are famous for it. Next, ever hear of "cooking the books?" Next, let's go to an admittedly extreme example. Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour. I don't know what the hourly wage was for average microsoft employee. But how many times that was what Bill Gates made. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour.

How'd he do that? Any specifics?

Well he was the CEO of microsoft, wasn't he?

He was. You think his salary was $1.38 million an hour?

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.

Ummmm.....that's $507,600 an hour, not $1.38 million an hour.

Gates has several investments outside Microsoft, which in 2006 paid him a salary of $616,667 and $350,000 bonus totalling $966,667.

Bill Gates - Wikipedia

Less than 1 million a year?
That make you an idiot.
Unless he only worked an hour or two a year?