Do The Wealthy Even Pay Taxes?

[maxo]

Do tax loopholes exist? Do banks exist that you can anonymously deposit money in? Do the wealthy control just about everything you hear? Go ahead and tell me none of these things are true.

Also, I used to pay taxes. It was deducted from my paycheck every week. But after I filed my income taxes, I got most of it back. So how can that be taxation. A loan is more accurate. From what I hear of long past history, when people were taxed, they were taxed. There were no tax returns. Has any of this made up your mind yet?

Now I know how I was taxed. But I don't know if the wealthy are treated the same way. Do they file taxes returns and get BIG tax refunds? I don't know. But even if they are taxed, what does it mean. If I made $10,000 a year and paid $.50 cents for a candy bar, what percentage of my income would that be. Now if I made $100,000 a year, what percentage of my income would it be. Or what if I bought a new car and made $200,00 dollar payments on it each month, making 10,000 dollars a year, what percentage of my income would that be over 5 years. But if I made $100,000 dollars a year and just outright bought a car, what percentage of my income would that be over 5 years. I think you see what I am getting at.

So, the US takes in 4 trillion a year in tax revenues per year! Who dew ewe think is paying taxes?

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone.

Loses? Can you define loses?

Why. Can't you?

If I buy $100 of Chinese goods, I don't consider that a $100 loss. Do you? Why?

Would you be buying it with American money? Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money. Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand. When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money. If the things being made by Chinese for example are sold here, it is more likely to be the Chinese maker who gets the lions share of the money. Rather than the American economy.\

Let me guess. You like "free trade." Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour? Earth to toddsterpatriot. Time to land.

 

[maxo]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

What you "think" doesn't stand for a whole lot. I was able to get this "spam" graph from somebody named cultsmasher. It shoes what percentage of income is taxed in a number of states. It comes from a website called "Who Pays? 5th Edition - ITEP."

 

[maxo]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

You might find post #182 of some interest.

 

[koshergrl]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

You might find post #182 of some interest.

Unlikely.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously.

Cool!
You have a list?

On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all.

It's true, if they make no profits, they pay no taxes.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that.

It's about 4 times what the average worker makes.
But don't let reality ruin your rant.

Banks in Switzerland are famous for it. Next, ever hear of "cooking the books?" Next, let's go to an admittedly extreme example. Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour. I don't know what the hourly wage was for average microsoft employee. But how many times that was what Bill Gates made. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour.

How'd he do that? Any specifics?

Well he was the CEO of microsoft, wasn't he?

He was. You think his salary was $1.38 million an hour?

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it.

You KNOW that was his salary?
LOL!

Find an annual statement to back up your claim, or I'll continue to mock your ignorance.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, the US takes in 4 trillion a year in tax revenues per year! Who dew ewe think is paying taxes?

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone.

Loses? Can you define loses?

Why. Can't you?

If I buy $100 of Chinese goods, I don't consider that a $100 loss. Do you? Why?

Would you be buying it with American money? Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money. Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand. When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money. If the things being made by Chinese for example are sold here, it is more likely to be the Chinese maker who gets the lions share of the money. Rather than the American economy.\

Let me guess. You like "free trade." Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour? Earth to toddsterpatriot. Time to land.

Would you be buying it with American money?

No, I'd be buying it with my money.
Currently, I use US dollars.

Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money.

How is it a loss? I saw more value in the product than I did in the cash, that's why I voluntarily made the trade.

Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand.

Yes, your simpleton explanations are humorous, please continue. LOL!

When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money.

And the person who bought the thing gets the thing. DERP!

Let me guess. You like "free trade."

Freedom, gotta love it. Except for you, apparently.

Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour?

That's an interesting discussion that has nothing to do with your claim that a purchase from China is a loss.

When I buy $20 worth of gasoline, am I losing $20?
Or am I buying the ability to drive my car around, get to work, go to the store, promote commerce generally, live my life specifically?

 

[danielpalos]

So, the US takes in 4 trillion a year in tax revenues per year! Who dew ewe think is paying taxes?

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

420 billion is not much on a $20 trillion debt

We have close to a $20 trillion GDP......call it the cost of doing business

There is a lot we could do with 420 billion dollars. Rather than just flush it down the toilet. For example, that would pay for about 21 U.S.-mexico border walls.

Border walls?

We could also buy 40 million miniature golf courses for the money.

I don't think that playing miniature golf with decapitated mexican heads would work very well. But I would love to try!

Just more, "right wing fantasy"?

 

[Boss]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

What you "think" doesn't stand for a whole lot. I was able to get this "spam" graph from somebody named cultsmasher. It shoes what percentage of income is taxed in a number of states. It comes from a website called "Who Pays? 5th Edition - ITEP."

The problem here is simple to explain. These charts are presuming that someone with a low income is "poor" and someone with a high income is "wealthy." That's just not a valid assumption. Again, I can be a quadrillion-bazillionaire and not earn a penny of income... am I poor or wealthy? By the same token, what if I am the owner of a small landscaping business and my wife is an RN? Our combined incomes from my business and her job is around $250k for the year... are we wealthy? Someone like Bill Gates would laugh at that. Especially since most of my "income" is invested back into my growing business. And because of this, I have a lot of business deductions which lower my overall tax liability. Then we have the homeless bum on the corner... he wins $250k in the lottery and pays the mandatory 39% income tax, then blows the rest of it on booze, women and gambling, only to find himself on the corner and homeless by the end of the year... is he rich or poor? You see, you can't go by INCOME!

Your INCOME has nothing to do with your WEALTH! It's two completely different things.

 

[maxo]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

You might find post #182 of some interest.

Unlikely.

Give it a look and see.

 

[maxo]

Banks in Switzerland are famous for it. Next, ever hear of "cooking the books?" Next, let's go to an admittedly extreme example. Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour. I don't know what the hourly wage was for average microsoft employee. But how many times that was what Bill Gates made. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour.

How'd he do that? Any specifics?

Well he was the CEO of microsoft, wasn't he?

He was. You think his salary was $1.38 million an hour?

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it.

You KNOW that was his salary?
LOL!

Find an annual statement to back up your claim, or I'll continue to mock your ignorance.

You don't need to believe me. But if you are really interested, look it up yourself. Tell me if you find anything that says differently. If you dare.

 

[OnePercenter]

*Looks at IRS data*

Yes, the top 10% pay over 80% of taxes.

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

Before or after adjustments?

 

[maxo]

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone.

Loses? Can you define loses?

Why. Can't you?

If I buy $100 of Chinese goods, I don't consider that a $100 loss. Do you? Why?

Would you be buying it with American money? Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money. Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand. When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money. If the things being made by Chinese for example are sold here, it is more likely to be the Chinese maker who gets the lions share of the money. Rather than the American economy.\

Let me guess. You like "free trade." Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour? Earth to toddsterpatriot. Time to land.

Would you be buying it with American money?

No, I'd be buying it with my money.
Currently, I use US dollars.

Well it would be a loss to the value of that American money.

How is it a loss? I saw more value in the product than I did in the cash, that's why I voluntarily made the trade.

Let me explain in terms simple enough that you might understand.

Yes, your simpleton explanations are humorous, please continue. LOL!

When people make things and sell them, the person who made the thing gets the money.

And the person who bought the thing gets the thing. DERP!

Let me guess. You like "free trade."

Freedom, gotta love it. Except for you, apparently.

Do you really think that a Chinese person who makes 25 cents to 3 dollars an hour is going to be buying much from an American who makes 10 or 20 dollars an hour?

That's an interesting discussion that has nothing to do with your claim that a purchase from China is a loss.

When I buy $20 worth of gasoline, am I losing $20?
Or am I buying the ability to drive my car around, get to work, go to the store, promote commerce generally, live my life specifically?

Is that really how you look at things? Take a shit now, worry about toilet paper later? Let me try to explain things in a way that even you might understand. When you are in debt, you have nothing. You are in debt! Right now, the U.S. is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. Do you know what that means? It means that it may as well be 40 trillion dollars. That in turn means your money is worthless. And the more money you ship off to China by buying their goods, the more worthless it becomes.

Of course, there is a way out of this debt. All we have to do is sell the U.S. to China. So why not. Instead of doing it the slow way you prefer. We a;so have around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. I bet the Chinese could fix that too. All they would have to do is give everybody a water buffalo and a rice patty to shit in. Unfortunately for you, I don't think any of that should be done.

 

[maxo]

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

420 billion is not much on a $20 trillion debt

We have close to a $20 trillion GDP......call it the cost of doing business

There is a lot we could do with 420 billion dollars. Rather than just flush it down the toilet. For example, that would pay for about 21 U.S.-mexico border walls.

Border walls?

We could also buy 40 million miniature golf courses for the money.

I don't think that playing miniature golf with decapitated mexican heads would work very well. But I would love to try!

Just more, "right wing fantasy"?

Flushing 420 billion dollars down the toilet every year is no fantasy. And if you didn't use that kind of money to build around 21 U.S.-mexico border walls, but instead use it to build 40 million miniature golf courses, wouldn't it be a good idea to use those miniature golf courses in a way that would act as well as a U.S.-mexico border wall?

 

[Boss]

Is that really how you look at things? Take a shit now, worry about toilet paper later? Let me try to explain things in a way that even you might understand. When you are in debt, you have nothing. You are in debt! Right now, the U.S. is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. Do you know what that means? It means that it may as well be 40 trillion dollars. That in turn means your money is worthless. And the more money you ship off to China by buying their goods, the more worthless it becomes.

Of course, there is a way out of this debt. All we have to do is sell the U.S. to China. So why not. Instead of doing it the slow way you prefer. We a;so have around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. I bet the Chinese could fix that too. All they would have to do is give everybody a water buffalo and a rice patty to shit in. Unfortunately for you, I don't think any of that should be done.

I appreciate your concerns about our debt but there IS another alternative. It starts with balancing our budget and not spending more than we take in. If we do this, eventually we'll grow our way out of debt. What we DON'T need to do is panic and do something stupid... like imposing stiff trade tariffs on goods from China or jacking up income tax rates on the highest wage earners. These are things that will end up hurting us more than helping.

Increase top marginal tax rates and you choke off top marginal income earners and produce less revenue in the long term. You actually want to try and cut those rates and encourage high incomes at a nominal tax rate. With trade, there are certain things we get from China that we can't produce ourselves at anywhere near the same cost.

Do you make your own clothing? Why not? It would be better than paying someone else to make them, right? Not if you consider the time and energy you'd spend, along with the materials and such... it's just much more efficient to buy your clothes already made. That frees you up to do more productive things. The same can be said for trade... we rely on trade with China to provide us with products which would cost us much more to produce domestically. Not to mention, all the raw materials we buy which are used in various productions of other final products we sell. Tariffs just make that more expensive.

 

[maxo]

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

What you "think" doesn't stand for a whole lot. I was able to get this "spam" graph from somebody named cultsmasher. It shoes what percentage of income is taxed in a number of states. It comes from a website called "Who Pays? 5th Edition - ITEP."

The problem here is simple to explain. These charts are presuming that someone with a low income is "poor" and someone with a high income is "wealthy." That's just not a valid assumption. Again, I can be a quadrillion-bazillionaire and not earn a penny of income... am I poor or wealthy? By the same token, what if I am the owner of a small landscaping business and my wife is an RN? Our combined incomes from my business and her job is around $250k for the year... are we wealthy? Someone like Bill Gates would laugh at that. Especially since most of my "income" is invested back into my growing business. And because of this, I have a lot of business deductions which lower my overall tax liability. Then we have the homeless bum on the corner... he wins $250k in the lottery and pays the mandatory 39% income tax, then blows the rest of it on booze, women and gambling, only to find himself on the corner and homeless by the end of the year... is he rich or poor? You see, you can't go by INCOME!

Your INCOME has nothing to do with your WEALTH! It's two completely different things.

Would you be referring to the chart I showed in post #182? The chart doesn't assume anything. it states facts. And the fact is that in the states mentioned, the more money you earn, the lower percentage of that earned income goes towards paying taxes. And the less money you make, a higher percentage of your income goes towards paying taxes.

Now when it comes to wealth, as in what you have saved or what you own, that is a different matter. That probably means that even less of your wealth is taxed. Now if you owned a castle, you would probably have to pay land taxes or luxury taxes on it. Maybe. Because you might be able to do something like let people pay to be given tours of it. That would be your income. And only that pittance would be taxed. It's hard to say. It all depends on what the tax regulations are. What you have to say about the lottery is pointless compared to such things.

 

[Boss]

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

What you "think" doesn't stand for a whole lot. I was able to get this "spam" graph from somebody named cultsmasher. It shoes what percentage of income is taxed in a number of states. It comes from a website called "Who Pays? 5th Edition - ITEP."

The problem here is simple to explain. These charts are presuming that someone with a low income is "poor" and someone with a high income is "wealthy." That's just not a valid assumption. Again, I can be a quadrillion-bazillionaire and not earn a penny of income... am I poor or wealthy? By the same token, what if I am the owner of a small landscaping business and my wife is an RN? Our combined incomes from my business and her job is around $250k for the year... are we wealthy? Someone like Bill Gates would laugh at that. Especially since most of my "income" is invested back into my growing business. And because of this, I have a lot of business deductions which lower my overall tax liability. Then we have the homeless bum on the corner... he wins $250k in the lottery and pays the mandatory 39% income tax, then blows the rest of it on booze, women and gambling, only to find himself on the corner and homeless by the end of the year... is he rich or poor? You see, you can't go by INCOME!

Your INCOME has nothing to do with your WEALTH! It's two completely different things.

Would you be referring to the chart I showed in post #182? The chart doesn't assume anything. it states facts. And the fact is that in the states mentioned, the more money you earn, the lower percentage of that earned income goes towards paying taxes. And the less money you make, a higher percentage of your income goes towards paying taxes.

Now when it comes to wealth, as in what you have saved or what you own, that is a different matter. That probably means that even less of your wealth is taxed. Now if you owned a castle, you would probably have to pay land taxes or luxury taxes on it. Maybe. Because you might be able to do something like let people pay to be given tours of it. That would be your income. And only that pittance would be taxed. It's hard to say. It all depends on what the tax regulations are. What you have to say about the lottery is pointless compared to such things.

Yes, I am referring to the chart that specifies "Poorest 20%" ....as if "poorest" is automatically those who earn lower incomes. Earning a low income doesn't mean you're poor... it just means you earned low income. So the chart DOESN'T "state facts" it states presumptions.

And again, with a "high income earner" it doesn't mean they are WEALTHY! The vast majority of individuals who file income taxes in the top marginal tax bracket are small business owners. They have a good many business deductions which mitigate their tax liability. They're not RICH people, they are hard working middle class people who hope to be rich one day, but they're not there yet. They may be better off than some but they're FAR from being the "uber-wealthy" you imagine.

Information such as this is manipulated propaganda put out by Socialists. It's supposed to make you think "rich people" aren't paying their "fair share" of the taxes. But we tax INCOMES... not WEALTH!

 

[maxo]

Is that really how you look at things? Take a shit now, worry about toilet paper later? Let me try to explain things in a way that even you might understand. When you are in debt, you have nothing. You are in debt! Right now, the U.S. is over 18 trillion dollars in debt. Do you know what that means? It means that it may as well be 40 trillion dollars. That in turn means your money is worthless. And the more money you ship off to China by buying their goods, the more worthless it becomes.

Of course, there is a way out of this debt. All we have to do is sell the U.S. to China. So why not. Instead of doing it the slow way you prefer. We a;so have around 61 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. I bet the Chinese could fix that too. All they would have to do is give everybody a water buffalo and a rice patty to shit in. Unfortunately for you, I don't think any of that should be done.

I appreciate your concerns about our debt but there IS another alternative. It starts with balancing our budget and not spending more than we take in. If we do this, eventually we'll grow our way out of debt. What we DON'T need to do is panic and do something stupid... like imposing stiff trade tariffs on goods from China or jacking up income tax rates on the highest wage earners. These are things that will end up hurting us more than helping.

Increase top marginal tax rates and you choke off top marginal income earners and produce less revenue in the long term. You actually want to try and cut those rates and encourage high incomes at a nominal tax rate. With trade, there are certain things we get from China that we can't produce ourselves at anywhere near the same cost.

Do you make your own clothing? Why not? It would be better than paying someone else to make them, right? Not if you consider the time and energy you'd spend, along with the materials and such... it's just much more efficient to buy your clothes already made. That frees you up to do more productive things. The same can be said for trade... we rely on trade with China to provide us with products which would cost us much more to produce domestically. Not to mention, all the raw materials we buy which are used in various productions of other final products we sell. Tariffs just make that more expensive.

Balancing the budget is impossible. That would mean the wealthy paying their fair share. And that isn't likely to happen. Also, losing 300 billion to 700 billion to China each year doesn't help. Because of the trade imbalance with mexico, around 65 billion dollars leaves the U.S. pocket each year. Only an idiot, paid to be or otherwise, would say that tariffs aren't the answer. What we need is fair trade. Not free trade. Can you think of anything more fair than "fair."

Next, when you give me your opinion about how an economy works, I would appreciate it that in the future you not sniff glue first. There isn't anything made in other countries that we can't make here. Hell, if the U.S. wanted to, they could go into a production economy that would give every person in the U.S. a houseful of clothing. And the same thing goes for anything grown here. If Americans can't pick it, Americans don't need it.

I am kind of reminded of various species of ants that take other ants as slaves. But the slaver ants have evolved to the point where they can't even feed themselves without their slaves. In that case, would you care to guess who I think the real slaves are?

 

[Boss]

And the less money you make, a higher percentage of your income goes towards paying taxes.

This is also NOT TRUE... 40% of income earners pay NO taxes whatsoever on income. The lowest income earners generally get an EIC which gives them more in refunds than they paid in taxes. But what all of these composited graphs do is they factor in sales taxes, gasoline taxes, school taxes, etc. That's going to skew the information wildly, but that's what propagandists do.

 

[maxo]

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

What you "think" doesn't stand for a whole lot. I was able to get this "spam" graph from somebody named cultsmasher. It shoes what percentage of income is taxed in a number of states. It comes from a website called "Who Pays? 5th Edition - ITEP."

The problem here is simple to explain. These charts are presuming that someone with a low income is "poor" and someone with a high income is "wealthy." That's just not a valid assumption. Again, I can be a quadrillion-bazillionaire and not earn a penny of income... am I poor or wealthy? By the same token, what if I am the owner of a small landscaping business and my wife is an RN? Our combined incomes from my business and her job is around $250k for the year... are we wealthy? Someone like Bill Gates would laugh at that. Especially since most of my "income" is invested back into my growing business. And because of this, I have a lot of business deductions which lower my overall tax liability. Then we have the homeless bum on the corner... he wins $250k in the lottery and pays the mandatory 39% income tax, then blows the rest of it on booze, women and gambling, only to find himself on the corner and homeless by the end of the year... is he rich or poor? You see, you can't go by INCOME!

Your INCOME has nothing to do with your WEALTH! It's two completely different things.

Would you be referring to the chart I showed in post #182? The chart doesn't assume anything. it states facts. And the fact is that in the states mentioned, the more money you earn, the lower percentage of that earned income goes towards paying taxes. And the less money you make, a higher percentage of your income goes towards paying taxes.

Now when it comes to wealth, as in what you have saved or what you own, that is a different matter. That probably means that even less of your wealth is taxed. Now if you owned a castle, you would probably have to pay land taxes or luxury taxes on it. Maybe. Because you might be able to do something like let people pay to be given tours of it. That would be your income. And only that pittance would be taxed. It's hard to say. It all depends on what the tax regulations are. What you have to say about the lottery is pointless compared to such things.

Yes, I am referring to the chart that specifies "Poorest 20%" ....as if "poorest" is automatically those who earn lower incomes. Earning a low income doesn't mean you're poor... it just means you earned low income. So the chart DOESN'T "state facts" it states presumptions.

And again, with a "high income earner" it doesn't mean they are WEALTHY! The vast majority of individuals who file income taxes in the top marginal tax bracket are small business owners. They have a good many business deductions which mitigate their tax liability. They're not RICH people, they are hard working middle class people who hope to be rich one day, but they're not there yet. They may be better off than some but they're FAR from being the "uber-wealthy" you imagine.

Information such as this is manipulated propaganda put out by Socialists. It's supposed to make you think "rich people" aren't paying their "fair share" of the taxes. But we tax INCOMES... not WEALTH!

Who are you to say who is poor or not. Either you make $10,000 a year or you don't. End of story. On a side note, I have heard of an airline pilot who needed to be on food stamps. I have also heard of an immigrant couple with a couple of kids. Both of them were professionals and together earned just over $100,000 a year. But they found themselves living in a homeless shelter.

Next, did you go to the website I mentioned where I found those statistics? It didn't come off as some sort of commie website. Maybe you would prefer the conservative websites that say that the wealthy pay far more than their fair share of taxes. But if you do that, you are either A. Wealthy, or B. a sucker.

 

[Boss]

Balancing the budget is impossible. That would mean the wealthy paying their fair share.

AGAIN... WE DO NOT TAX WEALTH! How many times do I need to repeat that?

Also, losing 300 billion to 700 billion to China each year doesn't help.

We're not "losing" anything. You don't think we get something for that money? If we buy $200 million in electronic components and create $10 billion in computers with it, are we not better off?

Because of the trade imbalance with mexico, around 65 billion dollars leaves the U.S. pocket each year.

Again, it doesn't just leave our pocket... we get something in return and it has a value. It's like saying $100 leaves my wallet each week at the grocery store... well, I bought some food with it! The money didn't just fly out of my wallet into the grocery store owner's pocket.

There isn't anything made in other countries that we can't make here.

True, but again... I refer you to my analogy about your clothes... do you make your own or do you buy them already made? Sometimes it's cheaper for us to buy things made elsewhere.