Do the poor earn their income?

[syrenn]

Ive been on the side of 20k (and lower) and on the side of 150k (current). I can tell you, 150k isn't what you concider rich. It's just another step toward it. Think about it, when you had a bad year, you survived on 10k and thought 'man, it would be great to double my money and make 20k' now tgat your at 20k do you feel rich? Why not? Your making twice as much as you did before, you should be putting 10k a year in the bank as savings.

The reality is that as you make more, you spend more. You find more things that you need and never could afford before. That mobile home becomes a 2 bedroom one bath house. Then it becomes 3/2. Then a 3/2 with a garage. Then a place in the burbs with a yard in nice area. Without even knowing it, your house bill alone is $30k ... Before you know it, you don't want to drive the 20+ year old car with no A/C, you want a newer and nicer car. Before you know it, your car payment is more then your rent used to be.

The more you make, the more you spend. I make over $100k and I'll tell you something, during the down times, I life paycheck to paycheck to. Like you, I have bills to pay, they may be more then yours, but the bank still wants their money.

Now I guess you think that it's alright that I should have to sell my
home and car because Obama wants to raise my taxes, but I'm thinking 'you know what?I earned this stuff, I worked my abs off to make the money I spend on this stuff. How about the 'poor' stand up on their own two feet and word to make it in the world like I did instead of taking what I earn to subsidize their handouts'

You sound like a good hard working person, I'm sure that as lone as you maintain that work ethic, higher wages are on the horizon for you. When you get there and start making 100k look back on these posts you made and try to think how in the world you
ever survived on a lowly 10-20k .... Then you learn just why we are protective of what our hard earned sweat has gotten us

They will never understand that concept......

All they know is they want what you have and they don't. They want you to carry them because they think you should...and can.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Gamer Tag for online play. I play with and without my kids and grandkids frequently

dragonplasma on Playstation and Xbox.....

GOW3 is a week! Fucking stoked

You need "every penny" but are tracking when a $60 video game comes out?

Hmmmmmmmmm.......

It proves my point that even the "poor" live very nicely. And of course the left usually crucifies me for this stance.

But this is life, what can you do?

 

[syrenn]

When did federal income taxes become the bench mark for fairness?

You know the working poor pay a larger percentage of their income in sales tax and payrolls taxes. Much larger share than the "rich". Shouldn't we then raise those taxes on the rich in addition to raising income taxes on the poor?

this thread was made in response to one that was running at the time. "do the rich earn their income"


I am not speaking only of the "working" poor. Everyone pays sales tax... rich and poor alike. Though i would make the case that the rich.... pay more in sales tax.

How about the just plane old poor....who do jack shit. Are they earning their income?

There are way more working poor than there are non-working poor.

Good. They are working. They are earning their income.


The other "poor" are not earning theirs......

 

[Moonglow]

Ive been on the side of 20k (and lower) and on the side of 150k (current). I can tell you, 150k isn't what you concider rich. It's just another step toward it. Think about it, when you had a bad year, you survived on 10k and thought 'man, it would be great to double my money and make 20k' now tgat your at 20k do you feel rich? Why not? Your making twice as much as you did before, you should be putting 10k a year in the bank as savings.

The reality is that as you make more, you spend more. You find more things that you need and never could afford before. That mobile home becomes a 2 bedroom one bath house. Then it becomes 3/2. Then a 3/2 with a garage. Then a place in the burbs with a yard in nice area. Without even knowing it, your house bill alone is $30k ... Before you know it, you don't want to drive the 20+ year old car with no A/C, you want a newer and nicer car. Before you know it, your car payment is more then your rent used to be.

The more you make, the more you spend. I make over $100k and I'll tell you something, during the down times, I life paycheck to paycheck to. Like you, I have bills to pay, they may be more then yours, but the bank still wants their money.

Now I guess you think that it's alright that I should have to sell my
home and car because Obama wants to raise my taxes, but I'm thinking 'you know what?I earned this stuff, I worked my abs off to make the money I spend on this stuff. How about the 'poor' stand up on their own two feet and word to make it in the world like I did instead of taking what I earn to subsidize their handouts'

You sound like a good hard working person, I'm sure that as lone as you maintain that work ethic, higher wages are on the horizon for you. When you get there and start making 100k look back on these posts you made and try to think how in the world you
ever survived on a lowly 10-20k .... Then you learn just why we are protective of what our hard earned sweat has gotten us

They will never understand that concept......

All they know is they want what you have and they don't. They want you to carry them because they think you should...and can.

and this goes for liberals and conservatives?

 

[Montrovant]

Considering all the hubbub over the "rich" not paying their fair share or earning their income.

It begs a better question: Do the the poor earn their income?


The working poor are obviously working very hard to earn their incomes but in the same breath pay no federal income tax.

Then there are the poor who do not work and do nothing but receive entitlements and aid for a living. Do these poor "earn" their income?

You clarified later that you don't mean the working poor (I was unclear from this post) so I will agree that, in large part, entitlement income is not "earned".

I would like to point out, however, that even the working poor may pay federal income tax. I know I did for about 9 years. I averaged maybe 10k a year during that time, and paid taxes every year. My job was considered self-employed (it was data-entry, I did it all for one small company, but was technically a sub-contractor and self-employed) so I didn't pay any taxes on my paychecks, but had to pay at the end of the year. If I remember correctly, it worked out to around 10% of my total income after the standard deduction.

I was likely an exception rather than the rule, but still, not all working poor avoid paying federal income tax.

 

[syrenn]

my xbox just died and now i need to replace it. Lucky i sold off a few things so i have enough to buy a new one. Weighing my options i even saved 50$ by buying the HDD separate from the xbox.

I am classified as poor. Its been a messed up summer for my construction work. ( the work is there but the boss and such have been dragging ass on work)

Right now i need every penny i can muster for food, gas and baby shit. Taking 5% taxes out of mu pay check will affect me a lot more than someone making 250k a year.

I've lived off 20k a year, so to sit there and say you are struggling to make it when you make 250k a year is a fucking joke.

I will trade anyday of the week. That being said i am not for taking people out the wazoo either. a reasonable rate is fine.

Welcome to the real world.

Just because something will hurt YOU more then someone else........ you prefer that they pay your share.

Absolutely! Its called
EQUALITY

And even though you dont believe in it, it is one of the principals that used to make America great.

I agree..... equality is everyone pays.... the same.

Asking others to pay FOR you is not equality.....

 

[Xchel]

When a person is working 6 days or 7 days a week 12 hours a day and making 7 bucks an hour you damn right they are earning their income. A 20% cut for them can mean the difference between eating and not eating so yeah that is a problem. Not everyone considered poor gets entitlements or welfare if you want to call it that.

I have been both poor and wealthy and right now struggle, but I don't get welfare period. Of course I don't qualify anyway living in a foreign country. The only entitlement I can be accused of receiving is child support for my 15 year old from his father who earns a hell of a lot more than he contributes to his child. I started out with nothing at 17 and gradually worked my way up and divorce has a way of cutting your income to hell and back...Right now I work as a mother and work outside the home too...and I earn every damn penny I get. Do I pay tax? Yes, I do I don't get the entitlements you talk about because I am an ex pat and disqualified from such bennies and since I am still not technically divorced get the joy of being considered wealthy even though I live on less than 1000 dollars a month.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The poor in my county get UI and food stamps and they may grow some pot too. We also have working poor, people who work full time but still can't pay the bills because their salaries are too low.

 

[Moonglow]

Welcome to the real world.

Just because something will hurt YOU more then someone else........ you prefer that they pay your share.

Absolutely! Its called
EQUALITY

And even though you dont believe in it, it is one of the principals that used to make America great.

I agree..... equality is everyone pays.... the same.

Asking others to pay FOR you is not equality.....

So Jesus was unequal when he ask people to give to his ministry and he refused to earn this money?

 

[syrenn]

dragonplasma on Playstation and Xbox.....

GOW3 is a week! Fucking stoked

You need "every penny" but are tracking when a $60 video game comes out?

Hmmmmmmmmm.......

It proves my point that even the "poor" live very nicely. And of course the left usually crucifies me for this stance.

But this is life, what can you do?

At least plasmaball HAS a job..... it may be foolish to spend money on extras... but it is his money...he earned it...and should be able to spend it however he wants.

On the other hand... if a person on welfare who does not EARN their income and is on, section 8 housing, food stamps...and everything else under the sun....is buying an Xbox.. cell phone...designer clothing...drugs and alcohol.....

is fucking bullshit. They did not earn the perks of life.

 

[Moonglow]

this thread was made in response to one that was running at the time. "do the rich earn their income"


I am not speaking only of the "working" poor. Everyone pays sales tax... rich and poor alike. Though i would make the case that the rich.... pay more in sales tax.

How about the just plane old poor....who do jack shit. Are they earning their income?

There are way more working poor than there are non-working poor.

Good. They are working. They are earning their income.


The other "poor" are not earning theirs......

well I believe income should be equal also. A CEO should get paid equal what thier workers get paid.

 

[MarcATL]

Demonstrate that you are productive, self-accountable citizen that after due effort of your own output needs temporary assistance with things to make your children more educated or healthier and I am all for helping with essentials.

Our system is being gamed in every aspect and the give a damn of working stiffs like me is pret' near give out.

There are folks with bona fide disabilities that don't work and should receive social safety net support if needed.

Then there are those who game the system and don't work and demand entitlment of such sustenance..

The Liberal refusal to make a separation / distinction between the two and take steps to cull them from the ranks means the ones who truly need it receive less benefit and little opportunity for meaningful reform.

I dont think liberals refuse You have to understand these people are LYING to gain things from the system. At least the ones who could work. Those people deserve nothing for abusing the system set in place to help others.

I'd like to see ONE of these RWers produce some numbers of the people that are actually "gaming the system."

They say that stuff at every turn, however, never accompanied by any numbers or stats.

Funny that.

 

[WatertheTree]

Welcome to the real world.

Just because something will hurt YOU more then someone else........ you prefer that they pay your share.

Absolutely! Its called
EQUALITY

And even though you dont believe in it, it is one of the principals that used to make America great.

I agree..... equality is everyone pays.... the same.

Asking others to pay FOR you is not equality.....

Are you some kind of commie?? The only way everyone can pay the same is if we all made the same, which we dont.

If you really want everyone to pay the same then you should be supporting FAIR TAX, instead of pushing ideals akin to oppressive tyrannical regimes.

Do you support sales tax, or do you think its unfair that a person that consumes 150k a year would pay more then a guy that consumes 12?

 

[syrenn]

Considering all the hubbub over the "rich" not paying their fair share or earning their income.

It begs a better question: Do the the poor earn their income?


The working poor are obviously working very hard to earn their incomes but in the same breath pay no federal income tax.

Then there are the poor who do not work and do nothing but receive entitlements and aid for a living. Do these poor "earn" their income?

You clarified later that you don't mean the working poor (I was unclear from this post) so I will agree that, in large part, entitlement income is not "earned".

I would like to point out, however, that even the working poor may pay federal income tax. I know I did for about 9 years. I averaged maybe 10k a year during that time, and paid taxes every year. My job was considered self-employed (it was data-entry, I did it all for one small company, but was technically a sub-contractor and self-employed) so I didn't pay any taxes on my paychecks, but had to pay at the end of the year. If I remember correctly, it worked out to around 10% of my total income after the standard deduction.

I was likely an exception rather than the rule, but still, not all working poor avoid paying federal income tax.

I am sorry if i was not clear about what "poor" i was speaking of.


not all.... but most do not pay any federal income tax.

However... they are working. They are earning their income....small as it is... they work and earn their income.

 

[Xchel]

Considering all the hubbub over the "rich" not paying their fair share or earning their income.

It begs a better question: Do the the poor earn their income?


The working poor are obviously working very hard to earn their incomes but in the same breath pay no federal income tax.

Then there are the poor who do not work and do nothing but receive entitlements and aid for a living. Do these poor "earn" their income?

You clarified later that you don't mean the working poor (I was unclear from this post) so I will agree that, in large part, entitlement income is not "earned".

I would like to point out, however, that even the working poor may pay federal income tax. I know I did for about 9 years. I averaged maybe 10k a year during that time, and paid taxes every year. My job was considered self-employed (it was data-entry, I did it all for one small company, but was technically a sub-contractor and self-employed) so I didn't pay any taxes on my paychecks, but had to pay at the end of the year. If I remember correctly, it worked out to around 10% of my total income after the standard deduction.

I was likely an exception rather than the rule, but still, not all working poor avoid paying federal income tax.

I am sorry if i was not clear about what "poor" i was speaking of.


not all.... but most do not pay any federal income tax.

However... they are working. They are earning their income....small as it is... they work and earn their income.

they may not all pay federal income tax, but they all do pay social security and medicare tax..no one escapes that.

 

[JScott]

this thread was made in response to one that was running at the time. "do the rich earn their income"


I am not speaking only of the "working" poor. Everyone pays sales tax... rich and poor alike. Though i would make the case that the rich.... pay more in sales tax.

How about the just plane old poor....who do jack shit. Are they earning their income?

There are way more working poor than there are non-working poor.

Good. They are working. They are earning their income.


The other "poor" are not earning theirs......

And many of the rich arent paying their share either.

 

[syrenn]

Absolutely! Its called
EQUALITY

And even though you dont believe in it, it is one of the principals that used to make America great.

I agree..... equality is everyone pays.... the same.

Asking others to pay FOR you is not equality.....

Are you some kind of commie?? The only way everyone can pay the same is if we all made the same, which we dont.

If you really want everyone to pay the same then you should be supporting FAIR TAX, instead of pushing ideals akin to oppressive tyrannical regimes.

Do you support sales tax, or do you think its unfair that a person that consumes 150k a year would pay more then a guy that consumes 12?

Tax is tax... it should be the same for everyone....federal, state and sales.

 

[WatertheTree]

You clarified later that you don't mean the working poor (I was unclear from this post) so I will agree that, in large part, entitlement income is not "earned".

I would like to point out, however, that even the working poor may pay federal income tax. I know I did for about 9 years. I averaged maybe 10k a year during that time, and paid taxes every year. My job was considered self-employed (it was data-entry, I did it all for one small company, but was technically a sub-contractor and self-employed) so I didn't pay any taxes on my paychecks, but had to pay at the end of the year. If I remember correctly, it worked out to around 10% of my total income after the standard deduction.

I was likely an exception rather than the rule, but still, not all working poor avoid paying federal income tax.

I am sorry if i was not clear about what "poor" i was speaking of.


not all.... but most do not pay any federal income tax.

However... they are working. They are earning their income....small as it is... they work and earn their income.

they may not all pay federal income tax, but they all do pay social security and medicare tax..no one escapes that.

Here comes the arguement 'its not a tax', even though anyone under 40 will never see a dime of what we have been paying in.

 

[syrenn]

You clarified later that you don't mean the working poor (I was unclear from this post) so I will agree that, in large part, entitlement income is not "earned".

I would like to point out, however, that even the working poor may pay federal income tax. I know I did for about 9 years. I averaged maybe 10k a year during that time, and paid taxes every year. My job was considered self-employed (it was data-entry, I did it all for one small company, but was technically a sub-contractor and self-employed) so I didn't pay any taxes on my paychecks, but had to pay at the end of the year. If I remember correctly, it worked out to around 10% of my total income after the standard deduction.

I was likely an exception rather than the rule, but still, not all working poor avoid paying federal income tax.

I am sorry if i was not clear about what "poor" i was speaking of.


not all.... but most do not pay any federal income tax.

However... they are working. They are earning their income....small as it is... they work and earn their income.

they may not all pay federal income tax, but they all do pay social security and medicare tax..no one escapes that.

Oh really? Not so.

If you live your life on welfare and entitlements.... you will not pay one dime into social security or medicare.

 

[WatertheTree]

I agree..... equality is everyone pays.... the same.

Asking others to pay FOR you is not equality.....

Are you some kind of commie?? The only way everyone can pay the same is if we all made the same, which we dont.

If you really want everyone to pay the same then you should be supporting FAIR TAX, instead of pushing ideals akin to oppressive tyrannical regimes.

Do you support sales tax, or do you think its unfair that a person that consumes 150k a year would pay more then a guy that consumes 12?

Tax is tax... it should be the same for everyone....federal, state and sales.

Then you should vote for RON PAUL, because he has said on numerous occasions that he would work immeadiatly to abolish the IRS, and any taxation will be done through FAIR TAX.