Do Speed Limits Matter?

[insein]

Thanks =d= For the link. Continuing a discussion that started in another thread, this info adds to my argument as to why we shouldnt have such ridiculous speed limits.

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-slmatr.html

Do Speed Limits Matter?

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The question, "Do speed limits matter?" hardly seems worthy of an answer. Insurance companies, police agencies, state transportation departments, and national safety organizations would have us believe that speed limits are a critical component of traffic regulation. Without those numbers on the signs and radar-wielding highway patrols, the entire system would self-destruct.
This belief is based on several dubious precepts, none of which have ever been proven or justified.

The most basic of these precepts is that motorists, in the absence of speed limits, will drive in a manner that ignores their own welfare and that of fellow highway users. That without speed limits, they would drive at reckless irresponsible speeds without concern for the consequences. Does that sound like you and the people you know?

Another piece of speed limit folklore is that posted speed limits, given reasonable enforcement, can dictate traffic speeds. By extension, it is implied that raising or lowering posted speed limits will change the speed of traffic in that area. This notion has been thoroughly disproved on several occasions but the myth persists.

"Speed Kills" and "Slow is Safe" are well-entrenched slogans that have no basis in fact. Repeated long enough and loud enough, these slogans have taken on the aura of "truths."

I know what you are thinking, "This guy is blowing smoke in my ear. He doesn't know what he's talking about." Stay with me for a bit longer and maybe I can change your mind, or at least bring about a little skepticism when one of those Public Service ads floats across your T.V. screen extolling the virtues of speed limits.

Let's first look at the premise that drivers will go berserk if they are not confined by speed limits.

Only one industrialized country officially allows unlimited speeds on portions of its public highways, Germany. Significant stretches of the Autobahn do not have speed limits. Yes, some vehicles travel at very high speeds, some in excess of 150 mph! But, the average speed for most vehicles is around 80 mph, about 10 mph faster than traffic in the U.S. on comparable highways. But, here's the clincher, the fatality rate on the German Autobahn is lower than the fatality rate on rural Interstates in the United States!

Lest you think this is the product of Teutonic discipline and training, keep in mind that a large portion of the traffic on German highways originates in several other countries. Despite the cultural and language differences, there is a common understanding of a few basic rules: pass on the left, yield the left lane to faster traffic, and pay attention to your driving. It really works well.

Do speed limits dictate travel speeds? Not much. Speed limits, backed up with intense enforce ment, can retard traffic speeds, at least in the short term. However, the national 55 mph speed limit proved the folly of trying to use speed limits to slow traffic.

Let's clear up one major misconception: Speed limits do not regulate traffic speeds never did and never will. Properly applied, speed limits should reflect the speed of the large (and safe) majority of vehicles using the highway. Keep in mind that millions upon millions of cars pound up and down our roads day in and day out, without having accidents. Except for a few vehicles, these cars are obviously traveling at speeds that are within reason. You say, "Aha, got you there. Those cars are going at reasonable speeds because they're being restrained by speed limits and the enforcement of those limits."

Let me tell you about the most recent and most exhaustive federal study on this very subject.

Over a period of five years, researchers monitored motorist response to speed limits at 227 different locations around the United States. First, motorist speeds were measured at all the locations. Next, the speed limits were raised on some roads and lowered on others while yet others remained the same. The results? Speeds did not change. People continued to drive at speeds that they felt were comfortable and safe, just like you and I do.

This study also measured the relationship of speed limit changes and accident frequency. As you might expect, if speeds didn't change much, neither did accident rates. However, in those instances where speed limits were raised, there was a slight reduction in accidents. Could it be smoother traffic flow?

Is slower really safer? Not on our rural highways it isn't. Again, federal and state studies have repeatedly shown that the folks most likely to get in an accident are the ones driving at speeds significantly below the average speed of traffic. In fact, the safest motorists, in terms of avoiding accidents, are those who are driving 5 mph to 10 mph above the average speed of traffic.

You have probably seen those insurance company ads bemoaning the carnage and higher rates sure to follow, if speed limits are raised on rural highways. Do you know what percentage of all accidents occur on highways posted at 65 miles per hour? The answer is 2 percent. The insurance industry would have you believe that an increase of two miles per hour in traffic speeds (the increase that occurred when speed limits were increased from 55 mph to 65 mph on rural Interstates), will set highway safety back at least a millennium and end civilization as we know it.

One of the most repeated and believed myths concerning speed limits goes like this, "You should keep the speed limit low because no matter where you set it, "they" (whoever "they" are) will always drive 10 miles over the limit." This is sheer nonsense, but it persists like the odor in a little kid's tennis shoes.

In 1973, when we had a 75 mph speed limit on the rural Interstates in 10 different states, there was 90 percent or better compliance with the speed limit in those states. The states that had 70 mph limits had around 80 percent compliance and the states with 65 mph speed limits had approximately 60 to 70 percent compliance. In 1994, New York measured motorist compliance with its 55 mph speed limit on rural Interstates. The result: 4 percent of the motorists were obeying the speed limit. Do you see a pattern here?

Whenever I'm confronted with the "they'll always drive 10 miles over" argument, I always ask, "If the speed limit was set at 100 mph would you then drive 110?"

If you've moved in my direction at all you might ask, "Do speed limits have any value at all?" Yes they do, but only if they're established in the right way for the right reasons.

The right reasons include informing the normally competent motorist about what is a safe and efficient speed for a given highway when there are good travel conditions. A second reason is to establish a speed limit that expedites smooth and harmonious traffic flow, in this instance a target that most vehicles should try to emulate.

Multi-lane limited access highways can tolerate a great deal of speed variance, as long as there is good lane discipline. Two-lane highways, at the other extreme, function best with uniform vehicle speeds. Properly set speed limits can accommodate these different circumstances.

Traffic engineers have repeatedly rediscovered that the best way to set speed limits is to measure the free-flowing speeds of traffic and determine the 85th percentile speed, which is the speed at which 85 percent of the vehicles are traveling at or below. With an 85th percentile speed limit, a 5 mph enforcement tolerance, and the unique phenomenon where faster traffic actually slows in the presence of reasonable speed limits, we will have 95 percent compliance with the speed limit. Compare those numbers with New York's 4 percent compliance.

Do speed limits matter? Yes they do. Today they generate millions of pointless traffic tickets and billions of dollars of undeserved insurance surcharges, disrupt traffic flow, increase congestion, and have created a siege mentality among those who frequently use our public highways.

It doesn't have to be this way. We can have rational traffic regulation, including appropriate speed limits, that will expedite traffic, improve safety, and focus enforcement efforts toward those motorists who clearly drive in a reckless or discourteous manner. All we have to do is demand that it be done.

 

[GotZoom]

I will agree 100%. I mentioned in another thread about my driving on the Autobahn and Autostrada. I drove everything from a little 2 cylinder Fiat to a Saab Turbo, Porsche, etc.

Everybody knows what you are supposed to do. Nearly everybody does it. I never drove above 120 mph and that was rare. Yes, there were people flying past me...and others who just cruised along with me.

These days (now that I am older and wiser, hack, cough), I rarely go above 90 mph. And that main reason?

I don't trust the other people around me.

 

[nosarcasm]

there are several differences between the Autobahn and German
traffic rules and especially mandatory car safety inspections.

I was surprised how often I saw tires blow in the US. It seldomly
happens in Germany because depending on the age on your
car on average they have every two year an inspection.
They check your brake system and your tires. That forces
you to replace faulty parts on your car.

Germany has also a rule you are not allowed to pass on the right.
The ramps have longer straight leading into the autobahn so you
can pick up to 65 miles, the speed of trucks. Trucks usually
are exepected to keep on the right.

In areas with strong traffic, like around large cities usually
there is a 75 miles speed limit because a lot of cars have
to pass trucks and if you would be allowed to go 100+ miles
this had proven to dangerous.

The discussion about speeding is not limited to the highways
and while it is discussable if 65,75, or 80 would be still
reasonably safe for the US if you want to go much faster
you would need a crashprotection in the middle of all highways.

The argument that speed limits do not work does not hold much
either because the average speed within cities seems to be 35 -45
not 100 miles.

 

[Variati0nal]

Speed limits really matter only to the inexperienced driver, and only to anyone else when there're a lot of cops around. The majority of people I know drive at a speed they feel comfortable at in each individual area, whether or not that is below or above the speed limit. If the roads are bad, you drive slower, if they're fine and the coast is clear, you drive faster. Speeding is against the law, but so is murder, and you see both happening anyway.

 

[Shattered]

Speed limits really matter only to the inexperienced driver, and only to anyone else when there're a lot of cops around. The majority of people I know drive at a speed they feel comfortable at in each individual area, whether or not that is below or above the speed limit. If the roads are bad, you drive slower, if they're fine and the coast is clear, you drive faster. Speeding is against the law, but so is murder, and you see both happening anyway.

DING! DING! DING!

There's an area out by me (in the sticks) where the speed limit is 50mph.. It's all curves, bumps, and dips.. Single lane on each side.. It's not *safe* to do 50mph there, because the lanes are exceptionally narrow, and it's overpopulated by deer.. So, I don't. Common sense.

 

[Nuc]

This is an interesting topic. Speed limits matter less in countries where people are good drivers and matter more in countries where people are bad drivers. Unfortunately the US fits the latter category.

If the US made it much more difficult to get a license by upgrading the skills requirement people could be given more discretion to operate at the appropriate speed for the conditions, rather than a semi-random number. That's pretty much the system in Europe.

In the US the automobile manufacturers and petroleum interests are in favor of the weak standards we have to get and keep a license.

I have lived in Wisconsin, where people think 65 is an entitlement even in freezing rain and ice. Then they are outraged when they spin out and end up in the ditch, "I was doing the speed limit". They don't understand that 65 is the maximum allowed, not the mandatory speed. These people are just stupid and should never have been allowed to get a license. I have also lived in NYC. It's not nice to engage in stereotyping, but Chinese people should not be allowed to get a license in this country if they want to drive like they did in China. It's insane.

Americans think driving is a right, not a privilige. I've been in line at the DMV when the inspector gave a semi-blind old woman hints when she couldn't pass the eye test. Sorry, if you can't see you shouldn't drive. I don't care if it limits your lifestyle.

Make the drivers test much more difficult and perhaps attach an IQ test to it and we won't need speed limits.

 

[freeandfun1]

Americans think driving is a right, not a privilige. I've been in line at the DMV when the inspector gave a semi-blind old woman hints when she couldn't pass the eye test. Sorry, if you can't see you shouldn't drive. I don't care if it limits your lifestyle.

Make the drivers test much more difficult and perhaps attach an IQ test to it and we won't need speed limits.

You need to start talking to your liberal friends... they are the ones pushing for giving licenses to people that can't read English. They are the ones pushing to give licenses to anybody that walks in the door. THEY are the ones that make the claim that driving is a RIGHT and NOT a privilidge...

Are you gonna stick by your position or are you now going to change it since it is your liberal friends that hold the position you are so against?

 

[freeandfun1]

DING! DING! DING!

There's an area out by me (in the sticks) where the speed limit is 50mph.. It's all curves, bumps, and dips.. Single lane on each side.. It's not *safe* to do 50mph there, because the lanes are exceptionally narrow, and it's overpopulated by deer.. So, I don't. Common sense.

DING DING DING!

There is a highway out in my area where at night you can see headlights coming for a good hour before you ever finally have the car passing you going in the opposite direction. The highway is flat, in an uninhabited area and there are no trees, deer, etc. in the vicitinity. The speed limit is 75, but you often find yourself doing 100 and feeling like you are sitting still.... Sometimes on these desert stretches of highway, if I didn't drive fast, I would probably fall asleep from boredom!

 

[Shattered]

DING DING DING!

There is a highway out in my area where at night you can see headlights coming for a good hour before you ever finally have the car passing you going in the opposite direction. The highway is flat, in an uninhabited area and there are no trees, deer, etc. in the vicitinity. The speed limit is 75, but you often find yourself doing 100 and feeling like you are sitting still.... Sometimes on these desert stretches of highway, if I didn't drive fast, I would probably fall asleep from boredom!

Exactly.. There are some roads where it just doesn't feel right to even go 55, and there are some you just have to go 90+. Nothing but experience will tell you which is which. Of course, then there's the couple daredevils in the world who give everyone else a bad name.

 

[Nuc]

You need to start talking to your liberal friends... they are the ones pushing for giving licenses to people that can't read English. They are the ones pushing to give licenses to anybody that walks in the door. THEY are the ones that make the claim that driving is a RIGHT and NOT a privilidge...

Are you gonna stick by your position or are you now going to change it since it is your liberal friends that hold the position you are so against?

I have not in any of my posts stated that I am a liberal. There are people in this world who decide issues on a case by case basis, not according to cookie cutter ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative". Those people are known as free thinkers or independents. Ever heard of this concept? It's difficult because then you have to think for yourself. I wouldn't try it at home if I were you.

 

[dmp]

I have not in any of my posts stated that I am a liberal. There are people in this world who decide issues on a case by case basis, not according to cookie cutter ideologies like "liberal" or "conservative". Those people are known as free thinkers or independents. Ever heard of this concept? It's difficult because then you have to think for yourself. I wouldn't try it at home if I were you.

That's a cop-out...and let's not turn this into a flame-fest. If you'd like to start a thread about "What is a Liberal vs Independant, or whatever, feel-free.

 

[Mr. P]

That's a cop-out...and let's not turn this into a flame-fest. If you'd like to start a thread about "What is a Liberal vs Independant, or whatever, feel-free.

Ahhhh D.. nucular didn't start a flame-fest..be a fair Mod, okay?

 

[dmp]

Ahhhh D.. nucular didn't start a flame-fest..be a fair Mod, okay?

My post is an attempt to keep the discussion on "Speed Limits" NOT 'What defines a Liberal, etc'.



:scratch:

 

[Mr. P]

My post is an attempt to keep the discussion on "Speed Limits" NOT 'What defines a Liberal, etc'.



:scratch:

I understand...you just addressed the wrong person..IMO..

 

[dmp]

I understand...you just addressed the wrong person..IMO..

(shrug) - Thanks for your input, but the point is, YOU read what I posted - I'm pretty sure anyone who wanted this thread to become a 'what defines a liberal' will/would have read it too.



And...

 

[Mr. P]

(shrug) - Thanks for your input, but the point is, YOU read what I posted - I'm pretty sure anyone who wanted this thread to become a 'what defines a liberal' will/would have read it too.



And...

Yeah, yeah...whatever...

 

[Fmr jarhead]

I think speed limits are a good thing, more to keep energy from being wasted.....

I also think that drivers should be more thoroughly tested, and more should be denied licenses due to health, physical disabilities, and the lack of the language of the land (and it is not spanish, even in Miami, if you are wondering...it is English)

I will block speeders when I have the opportunity in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500 (with a hemi) I angers me to see thoise endangering the lives of others on the highway in their efforts to go faster than the flow of traffic (especially when my son, Jake is with me)

I have pulled in behind police officers who have pulled over speeders and asked that reckless endagerment be added to the citations when I have been tailgated and witnessed what I perceive as dangerous operation of a motor vehicle on the PUBLIC's highway system.

Wasn't the 55mph speed limit put in place as an energy conservation measure? (rhetorical question...since I know the answer)

 

[Mr. P]

I think speed limits are a good thing, more to keep energy from being wasted.....

I also think that drivers should be more thoroughly tested, and more should be denied licenses due to health, physical disabilities, and the lack of the language of the land (and it is not spanish, even in Miami, if you are wondering...it is English)

I will block speeders when I have the opportunity in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500 (with a hemi) I angers me to see thoise endangering the lives of others on the highway in their efforts to go faster than the flow of traffic (especially when my son, Jake is with me)

I have pulled in behind police officers who have pulled over speeders and asked that reckless endagerment be added to the citations when I have been tailgated and witnessed what I perceive as dangerous operation of a motor vehicle on the PUBLIC's highway system.

Wasn't the 55mph speed limit put in place as an energy conservation measure? (rhetorical question...since I know the answer)

and the answer is YES.

 

[dmp]

I will block speeders when I have the opportunity in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500 (with a hemi) I angers me to see thoise endangering the lives of others on the highway in their efforts to go faster than the flow of traffic (especially when my son, Jake is with me)

If you continue, and force a road-rage, I hope you are prosecuted under the full extent of the law. People like you cause accidents with your aggressive/provoking driving behaviour.

I have pulled in behind police officers who have pulled over speeders and asked that reckless endagerment be added to the citations when I have been tailgated and witnessed what I perceive as dangerous operation of a motor vehicle on the PUBLIC's highway system.

Hypocritical...see, in your first paragraph, you admit to forcing YOUR will upon those driving faster than you, but in your second paragraph, you claim the road belongs to everybody. Change your ways before somebody dies - that's all I can say.

 

[Shattered]

I will block speeders when I have the opportunity in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500 (with a hemi) I angers me to see thoise endangering the lives of others on the highway in their efforts to go faster than the flow of traffic (especially when my son, Jake is with me)

Obviously, if you're blocking someone, then you're the "danger", since you've taken it upon yourself to block the "flow of traffic".. Try moving over a lane, and you won't have a problem. The left lane is for passing; not for your Sunday afternoon joy ride. Get past the drivers you're goint to PASS, and then move over. Or, can't you read either?