Zone1 Did you exist before you were born into this life?

[Paradoxical#1]

Why? "To be stupid" or "intentionally not to like to know" is not the best and honest I would say.



Eh? I write god normally "god" in English and "Gott" in German.



What we know is not exact but it is not nothing. Example: Why exists something at all? Why is not only nothing?



A lazy argument. To say something what's not true is not a lie. In science we err us upward for example.



Eh? What do you know about me or my people except that "you" murdered Germans in masses in two World Wars on not any real reason to have to do so - what you do not like to know now?



What for heravens sake do you speak about with your empty phrases?



Eh?



It exist no spiritual non-believers. Also atheism is a belief.



Why? In theory evolutionary you are not able to think at all about the origin of the universe because evolution is only within this universe. Nevertheless exist for example natural laws since the very first moment of the universe - totally unevolutionary.



Billions. The average life span of a new religion is 8 minutes.



Currently for example proved Gödel the existence of god - and this proof has still not been refuted - if only because hardly anyone understands it. Gödel used a special form of logic that only very few people have really mastered. But everyone who was able to make a proof of this proof found out it is correct. So in theory now all scientists had to think "god exists" if they would take serios the scientific epistemology. ("What's definetelly not wrong is true").

But most natural scientists seem to prefer the prejudice "atheism".



Sun masses? Galaxy masses?



How?



Which cure?

You are all over the map and end with the ontological argument, claiming that it is universally accepted, which it is not. You cannot define something into existence. Even if there is/was a creator or intelligence, you have not said why it must be the Christian or Muslim "God" or intelligence. Not sure why you are stuck on that premise.

Your first statement is incoherent.
Why? "To be stupid" or "intentionally not to like to know" is not the best and honest I would say.

I have no clue WTF you are talking about.

As for the rest of your post it is vague and unintelligible.

 

[braalian]

The inability to contemplate non-existence is the basis of every religion in human history

 

[Meriweather]

The inability to contemplate non-existence is the basis of every religion in human history

The reason it is easy to contemplate non-existence is contemplate where you were and what you were doing at this moment five thousand days ago. That existence is already gone, a blink--like it never was. It is why it easy to understand atheism...nothing behind us, nothing ahead of us.

 

[Meathead]

Here is scriptural evidence that we all existed as the spirit children of God the Father before we were born into this mortal world:

Man, Antemortal Existence of​

• See also Council in Heaven; Foreordination; Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father; Spirit Creation
• God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22 (27:16).
• all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7.
• the spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.
• Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1:5.
• Lord … formeth the spirit of man within him, Zech. 12:1.
• who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind, John 9:2.
• poets have said, For we are also his offspring, Acts 17:28.
• For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, Rom. 8:29.
• chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4.
• subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.
• angels which kept not their first estate, Jude 1:6.
• Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, Rev. 12:7.
• called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13:3.
• bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord, Hel. 14:17.
• third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away, D&C 29:36.
• seraphic hosts of heaven, before the world was made, D&C 38:1.
• man, according to his creation before the world, D&C 49:17.
• Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29.
• choice spirits who were reserved to come forth, D&C 138:53.
• before they were born … received their first lessons, D&C 138:56.
• in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, Moses 3:5.
• he beheld the spirits that God had created, Moses 6:36.
• intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3:22.
• he stood among those that were spirits, Abr. 3:23.
• took his spirit … and put it into him, Abr. 5:7.
• See also Prov. 8:22–31; John 1:2, 14; 8:58; 16:28; 17:5, 24; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2; 3 Ne. 1:13; 26:5; Ether 3:16.

What is the scriptural evidence that we did not exist prior to being born into this world?

Obviously, nine months before I was born.

 

[BreezeWood]

We don't burn crosses.

you are disingenuous at best ...

birds of a feather flock together

In the 1990s, some neo-Nazis began burning swastikas at their own events, directly emulating Ku Klux Klan cross burnings. This may have started with swastika burnings alongside cross-burnings at joint Nazi-Klan events.

the point being - not yours - the truth these people are the mainstream

in both countries and people like you are the reason for their emergence throughout history. directly related to their bibles of all three religions - each with their own particular vulgarity - the likud in israel today - your best buddy.

the hitler zaang adores. for zaang, jesus is no where to be found. is the truth.

 

[zaangalewa]

You

¿I?

are all over the map and end with the ontological argument,

Don't tell me you know really the difference between "Sein und Schein". I guess no language is more clear than German in such contexts.

claiming that it is universally accepted, which it is not.

What is not universally accepted? The universe? What for heavens sake do you try to speak about at all with your empty phrases?

You cannot define something into existence.

From an atheistic point of view the universe for example defined itselve into existence. Keeps the problem why the universe recognises itself in us. Why is something what is recognized and recognizing? And why is this something able to imagine other universes than only the own?

Even if there is/was a creator

Independent from any belief in a creator is the universe created.

or intelligence,

And the universe has a rational structure - or how I often say: "Mathematics is the spirituality of physics". Try to do physics without math and you will fail in very most cases.

you have not said why it must be the Christian or Muslim "God" or intelligence.

Why should I? You attack anyway everything what not fits to your belief not to believe.

Not sure why you are stuck on that premise.

Your first statement is incoherent.
Why? "To be stupid" or "intentionally not to like to know" is not the best and honest I would say.

?

I have no clue WTF you are talking about.

You could have a clue because everyone of all religions understands what I say if he has enough time to think about. You don't have a clue about whatever - because you hate it that others could be right who "only" believe.

As for the rest of your post it is vague and unintelligible.

Everyone who believes is much more stupid than you - in your form to believe. That's normal for atheists. What I really don't understand is something else: Many people who are unbelievable intelligent and who know a lot - specially also about their own job - are saying often totally stupid things.

In this days said someone for example who likes to become Judge of the Federal Constitutional Court in Germany "There are good reasons why a child cannot be accorded dignity before birth." Sounds totally harmless such a sentence. Sound even intellectual. But besides that there is not any reason existing for this statement it is also wrong to say so. It means indeed "Only judges define who is a human being or not".
Asides that in Germany never any German judge was punished who spoke a death sentence during the atheistic Nazi-regime or a death sentence during the atheistic Soviet-regime it is also clear that every human being evolves ontogenetical as a human being. And no one ever was and is able to say which biological condition - except for fertilisation - a human beings starts to be a human being. It seems to be for atheists impossible to think about that to kill human beings in their mothers womb is in very most cases wrong.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

¿I?


Don't tell me you know really the difference between "Sein und Schein". I guess no language is more clear than German in such contexts.



What is not universally accepted? The universe? What for heavens sake do you try to speak about at all with your empty phrases?



From an atheistic point of view the universe for example defined itselve into existence. Keeps the problem why the universe recognises itself in us. Why is something what is recognized and recognizing? And why is this something able to imagine other universes than only the own?



Independent from any belief in a creator is the universe created.



And the universe has a rational structure - or how I often say: "Mathematics is the spirituality of physics". Try to do physics without math and you will fail in very most cases.




Why should I? You attack anyway everything what not fits to your belief not to believe.



?



You could have a clue because everyone of all religions understands what I say if he has enough time to think about. You don't have a clue about whatever - because you hate it that others could be right who "only" believe.



Everyone who believes is much more stupid than you - in your form to believe. That's normal for atheists. What I really don't understand is something else: Many people who are unbelievable intelligent and who know a lot - specially also about their own job - are saying often totally stupid things.

In this days said someone for example who likes to become Judge of the Federal Constitutional Court in Germany "There are good reasons why a child cannot be accorded dignity before birth." Sounds totally harmless such a sentence. Sound even intellectual. But besides that there is not any reason existing for this statement it is also wrong to say so. It means indeed "Only judges define who is a human being or not".
Asides that in Germany never any German judge was punished who spoke a death sentence during the atheistic Nazi-regime or a death sentence during the atheistic Soviet-regime it is also clear that every human being evolves ontogenetical as a human being. And no one ever was and is able to say which biological condition - except for fertilisation - a human beings starts to be a human being. It seems to be for atheists impossible to think about that to kill human beings in their mothers womb is in very most cases wrong.

I am not from Germany and up to speed on what judges do there. Your postings are intentionally vague, making it difficult to pin you down. You used the ontological argument on me, thinking that it would be a trap for me. It is not because I have already said that the question of how and why the universe began is unanswerable. You want to not only shoehorn a "God" in that question by way of an argument that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. We don't know that. Some say that it is possible for something to come from nothing.

My position is that I have not seen any evidence a god did it. But as I said, even if that premise was granted to you, now you need to go about the task of proving it is your Judeo-Christian God. Get to it.

 

[zaangalewa]

you are disingenuous at best ...

View attachment 1134897

birds of a feather flock together



the point being - not yours - the truth these people are the mainstream

View attachment 1134898

in both countries and people like you are the reason for their emergence throughout history. directly related to their bibles of all three religions - each with their own particular vulgarity - the likud in israel today - your best buddy.

View attachment 1134901

the hitler zaang adores. for zaang, jesus is no where to be found. is the truth.

First of all: Many members of my families had been murdered from the Nazis. And I'm seriosly not sure about what's wrong with Netanyahu - who has by the way Russian ancestors as far as I know. Not only the atheist Hitler - also the atheist Stalin persecuted Jews until he died in 1953.

And that the so called "KuKluxKlan" - what a funny name - had about 2 million members in the 1920ies in the USA and that this influenced the Nazis is today only not known from very most people in the English speaking world. Nevertheless the KKK is a racist organisation which has nothing to with Christians. Short: Christians don't burn crosses. Christians don't murder people. And what most people also do not like to know: Hitler was worldwide admired before World War 2 - also in the USA. The Olympic Games in 1936 had indeed been a triumph for Hitler.

The Catholic church in 1937 was one of the first powers in the world - 2 years after the Nazis made the first racist laws while racist laws had always existed in the USA - who criticized Hitler and his regime with the only encyclical ever published in German "Mit brennender Sorge" = "With burning concern." - about 1-2 years before Wold War 2 started and about 3-4 years before the Holocaust reached its peak and held it.

That you attack me with the expression "the hitler zaang" is by the way no free opinion but a crime in some nations of the world on very good reasons. I am for the Nazis a Jew. What you are doing is a victim-perpetrator exchange. This is able to cause in victims of genocide and their descendents (see also: epigenetics) brain physiological changes that are not unlike a blow to the head. So words can in fact cause bodily injury. God protects me so this will not happen with me - but you should speak with him because what you are doing is damaging your own soul.

And please: Use your chance. Speak with god. Do not think this is a joke.

 

[zaangalewa]

I am not from Germany

Why should you?

and up to speed on what judges do there.

It was only an example.

Your postings are intentionally vague,

No.

making it difficult to pin you down.

No. It's difficult for you to find philosophical arguments. When an atheistic philosopher from the so called "Frankfurt school" agreed in a discussion with the later Pope Benedict about that spirit is essential in the materialistic world his atheistic colleagues argued not "Astonishing. We will have to find out what this change means" - they 'argued' "You are a traitor".

You used the ontological argument on me, thinking that it would be a trap for me.

It's your problem if you make yourselve intentionally to an idiot.

It is not because I have already said that the question of how and why the universe began is unanswerable.

Why should it be unanswerable? Do not underestimate the children of god. When god made time he made a lot. It's not over yet.

You want to not only shoehorn

¿schuhlöffeln? ... hmmm ... nice word - but what's the sense?

a "God" in that question by way of an argument that it is impossible for something to come from nothing.

I never said this. A not essential belief of Christians is to say that god made the world out of nothing - or with other words: the world has a first cause. Not to forget: A first cause has no cause - so we do not really know how god made it. And looks like the universe has indeed a first cause. Suddenly all energy and all natural laws had been here coming from ???

We don't know that. Some say that it is possible for something to come from nothing.

Yes. I do. Nevertheless no one is able to produce or to destroy energy. We are only able to transform energy.

My position is that I have not seen any evidence a god did it.

You will never be able to go back to this time of natural history. You would not survive. So you have to believe what others find out about this situation.

But as I said, even if that premise was granted to you, now you need to go about the task of proving it is your Judeo-Christian God. Get to it.

Silly idea. Did ever any Christian say anything else than to believe in god? Your problem is not to believe to believe. Christians or Jews are not your problem. You problem is not to understand why others not believe what you say.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Why should you?



It was only an example.



No.



No. It's difficult for you to find philosophical arguments. When an atheistic philosopher from the so called "Frankfurt school" agreed in a discussion with the later Pope Benedict about that spirit is essential in the materialistic world his atheistic colleagues argued not "Astonishing. We will have to find out what this change means" - they 'argued' "You are a traitor".



It's your problem if you make yourselve intentionally to an idiot.



Why should it be unanswerable? Do not underestimate the children of god. When god made time he made a lot. It's not over yet.



¿schuhlöffeln? ... hmmm ... nice word - but what's the sense?



I never said this. A not essential belief of Christians is to say that god made the world out of nothing - or with other words: the world has a first cause. Not to forget: A first cause has no cause - so we do not really know how god made it. And looks like the universe has indeed a first cause. Suddenly all energy and all natural laws had been here coming from ???



Yes. I do. Nevertheless no one is able to produce or to destroy energy. We are only able to transform energy.



You will never be able to go back to this time of natural history. You would not survive. So you have to believe what others find out about this situation.



Silly idea. Did ever any Christian say anything else than to believe in god? Your problem is not to believe to believe. Christians or Jews are not your problem. You problem is not to understand why others not believe what you say.

Your breaking up a post into snippets is crazy and takes a long time to respond to every one of them. You said a first cause has no cause, and by that, you destroy your own premise that your God created the universe and are possibly unable to realize that. The first cause of the universe, therefore, would have no cause.

I am aware that matter and energy convert from one to the other. How does that confirm your Christian God hypothesis?

You again destroy your own arguments with this statement "You will never be able to go back to this time of natural history. You would not survive. So you have to believe what others find out about this situation." And yet YOU and all of humanity don't believe what others tell you? That is how you came to believe in the Judeo-Christian God concept. By the way, others did not find out anything. They merely developed beliefs that they wrote down, and because those beliefs were passed down by your great great great grandfathers, you also adopted them.

 

[zaangalewa]

Your breaking up a post into snippets is crazy and takes a long time to respond to every one of them. You said a first cause has no cause, and by that, you destroy your own premise that your God created the universe and are possibly unable to realize that. The first cause of the universe, therefore, would have no cause.

I am aware that matter and energy convert from one to the other. How does that confirm your Christian God hypothesis?

You again destroy your own arguments with this statement "You will never be able to go back to this time of natural history. You would not survive. So you have to believe what others find out about this situation." And yet YOU and all of humanity don't believe what others tell you? That is how you came to believe in the Judeo-Christian God concept. By the way, others did not find out anything. They merely developed beliefs that they wrote down, and because those beliefs were passed down by your great great great grandfathers, you also adopted them.

As sad as it is to have to say so: You are not able to think in a real philosophical = scientific way. Let me say it this way: It is necessary to use a "concept" which is called "truth" in such ways to think. But you are "only" an ideologist - comparable to a man who bears only his own truth. But in reality you would need a woman to bear your baby - whose babies you abort - so only your own sex keeps to be your autocratic scientismus. But the world is more and the world is greater.







Liebe ist in allen Dingen im Überfluss vorhanden
Hildegard von Bingen
Love is present in abundance in all things

 

[BreezeWood]

Nevertheless the KKK is a racist organisation which has nothing to with Christians.

they are the bible belt of this country - from sea to sea ... does the bible have anything to do w/ jesus and the 1st century events - no - you keep ignoring the discussion.

there is never a messiah from the heavens to save anyone if you are a jew that's your problem.

jesus, the 1st century events are the original goal to sin no more, triumph over evil as the means for admission to the everlasting - you believe, judaism that is accomplished by servitude and denial, false commandments madeup by moses - 1st century taught liberation theology self determination ... your problem is judaism and pretensions you hold for jesus.

 

[zaangalewa]

they are the bible belt of this country

What's totally uninteresting for me.

- from sea to sea ... does the bible have anything to do w/ jesus and the 1st century events - no - you keep ignoring the discussion.

Which discussion? The KKK is an US-American racist oganisation which has nothing to do with the Christian religion. What likes to discuss an extreme US-American atheist as you are in this context?

there is never a messiah from the heavens to save anyone if you are a jew that's your problem.

I am no Jew and if I would be a Jew I had no problem to be a Jew, Nazi.

jesus, the 1st century events are the original goal to sin no more, triumph over evil as the means for admission to the everlasting - you believe, judaism that is accomplished by servitude and denial, false commandments madeup by moses - 1st century taught liberation theology self determination ... your problem is judaism and pretensions you hold for jesus.

You have absolutelly not any real idea what you try to speak about.

 

[zaangalewa]

Not to forget: And luiza? ¿Did you exist before you was born?

 

[ding]

Wait - are you referring to Catholics, or the OP?

The forum for Catholic bashing is two doors down.

You are the sum of your choices. Choose wisely.

 

[onefour1]

Moses 3:5
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;