Did Pope Francis help the church by going woke?

[80zephyr]

All the law. You seem fixated. Matt, 5-7, that’s Christianity.

So then we should not do anything to murderers and pedophiles? Just mercy, right?

 

[konradv]

So then we should not do anything to murderers and pedophiles? Just mercy, right?

Just wondering why retribution is the go to, not Christlike!

 

[80zephyr]

Just wondering why retribution is the go to, not Christlike!

And i am just wondering if you believe that, because you are a Christian, you should allow bad things to happen?

 

[justoffal]

Every modern country on Earth is at zero population growth or below. What about the rest of them?

Church wants the $$...that is all.

View attachment 1102696

Russian population.....yep looks like it's gonna be problem.

China too.... I believe the Chinese population has stopped growing

 

[braalian]

Russia's economy has doubled over the past 5 years.

Then why is Russia still such a shithole?

 

[konradv]

And i am just wondering if you believe that, because you are a Christian, you should allow bad things to happen?

I’m concerned when lies are told to push sn agenda. We see it with migrants. We see it with Ukraine. We see it with tariffs. We see it with few savings, but many civil liberties intrusions by DOGE. We see it with so many of our allies mad at us. We see it with one dictator having another’s back… Enough?

 

[konradv]

What a crock of shit.... But you're good for those.

Russia's economy has doubled over the past 5 years.

Great Britain is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

The Netherlands is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

Sweden is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

Ireland is closed behind.

Ruzzian propaganda!

 

[80zephyr]

I’m concerned when lies are told to push sn agenda. We see it with migrants. We see it with Ukraine. We see it with tariffs. We see it with few savings, but many civil liberties intrusions by DOGE. We see it with so many of our allies mad at us. We see it with one dictator having another’s back… Enough?

You believe things that are not real.

 

[konradv]

You believe things that are not real.

I watch the news.

 

[80zephyr]

I watch the news.

Like I said...

 

[dudmuck]

https://shiftnews.com/article/CMSP2CHGCRRK4S1SC9J32E9GCRSK0SB26SHP6R9M69HKADHS6GV3MCHG68TJTC1M5MS3281G70X34CST68RKMKJ368?category=News

Francis Worked to Make Catholic Church More Inclusive​

View attachment 1102582

The cardinals who will choose Pope Francis' successor will have to decide whether to follow his path toward a more welcoming, global and collegial church or restore the more doctrinaire approach of his predecessors. Francis made strides in addressing the church's sexual abuse crisis and tackled its murky financial culture. He created thousands of bishops and appointed more than half of the College of Cardinals. He also reached out to Muslim leaders.

• The cardinals are at a crossroads, deciding whether to continue Pope Francis' vision of a more inclusive and global church or revert to the traditional stance of previous popes. This choice will spark significant discussions among them.
• Pope Francis leaves behind a complex legacy, as early hopes for a 'Francis effect' to boost church attendance in the secular West have largely not materialized, even as attendance grows in the global South.
• While Francis made notable progress in addressing the church's sexual abuse crisis and financial issues, the future direction he set is likely to be a contentious topic among the cardinals.
• His openness to discussing major theological issues like divorce, married priests, same-sex couples, and women's roles excited many liberal Catholics but raised concerns that a less reform-minded successor could undo these changes.
• Francis aimed to shift the church's trajectory away from the conservative paths of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, especially in response to the latter's failure to adequately address child sexual abuse within the church.
• Despite his progressive agenda, Francis was not afraid to confront conservative elements within the church, even dismissing high-ranking officials who resisted his vision.
• His global outreach, particularly in engaging with Muslim leaders and addressing issues affecting vulnerable Catholic communities, was significant, but his lasting impact is likely to be seen in the church's internal structure and the bishops he appointed who align with his priorities.

I referred to being more "inclusive" as being woke. Many may disagree, but it's the truth nonetheless.

Was it worth it? Did it help spread the gospel of Christ? According to church attendance, not so much.

Politically, did it help the church? Will governments around the world, which have progressively gotten more woke themselves, now treat the Catholic church better politically? If so, is that a good thing, considering that Christ basically upset every world government on earth as well as every religious institution, causing them to put him to death?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

This Pope was very liberal and not traditional.

The Catholic church has been losing members at an alarming rate

Something Jesus never said!

Wasn't Jesus "God"? He disagreed with "dad", who was him but also a son, and also a Holy Spirit which no one can tell me what that means? So, since he said he was God that means he was the God of the OT,

 

[konradv]

The Catholic church has been losing members at an alarming rate

Wasn't Jesus "God"? He disagreed with "dad", who was him but also a son, and also a Holy Spirit which no one can tell me what that means? So, since he said he was God that means he was the God of the OT,

Just talking about what it means to be a Christian.

 

[JoeB131]

I referred to being more "inclusive" as being woke. Many may disagree, but it's the truth nonetheless.

Was it worth it? Did it help spread the gospel of Christ? According to church attendance, not so much.

Politically, did it help the church? Will governments around the world, which have progressively gotten more woke themselves, now treat the Catholic church better politically? If so, is that a good thing, considering that Christ basically upset every world government on earth as well as every religious institution, causing them to put him to death?

Actually, if you read the Gospels, Pontius Pilate was reluctant to put Jesus to death. He only did so to appease the Jews.

(Not that I think any of that actually happened, it was more a fairy tale.)

Here's the thing about Francis. Francis was the Catholic Church's first Third World Pope, who recognized the reality that the Catholic Church is a third world religion at this point.

In 1910, 70% of the world's Catholics lived in Europe and North America. Today, only 32% of the world's Catholics live in Europe and N. America. Part of that is due to Third World population growth, part of that is due to missionary efforts, part of that is due to the increasing secularization of the First World.

So it really makes no sense for the Church to continue to pander to the sensibilities of white people who are not really that into the church.

On topics that liberals care about like abortion and gay rights, the late Pope made very little change, except maybe no wagging the finger as much as his predecessors did. Kind of makes sense, as most Catholics tend to treat the Pope like a senile uncle on these issues.

After reading that Francis appointed to many Cardinals, I would assume that after placing his Left wing stooges to replace him, they will continue down this road.

But does the Left think of the church anymore favorably? I don't think so. All they have done is driving away conservatives from their flock. In fact, Pope Francis went on a jihad against conservative priests by defrocking many of them for doing such things as being anti-abortion activists in the US.

Actually, Catholic priests being told to avoid politics has been a policy of the Church for some time. This was John Paul II's policy as well, which is why Rep/Fr. Robert Drinan had to give up his seat in Congress.

The problem is that you have an America-centric view of the world. Only 75 million of the world's one billion Catholics live in the US. The pope has to be concerned with all Catholics.

So, when in much of the third world, overpopulation and poverty are a crisis, the Pope realized the Church shouldn't be hitting too hard on the birth control issue. He didn't repeal *Humanae Vitae, Paul VI's ban on contraception, however.

Now, I am not a fan of the Catholic Church. I left it in 1983 and frankly, never looked back. But as Popes go, Francis was probably a step in the right direction.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Actually, if you read the Gospels, Pontius Pilate was reluctant to put Jesus to death. He only did so to appease the Jews.

(Not that I think any of that actually happened, it was more a fairy tale.)

Here's the thing about Francis. Francis was the Catholic Church's first Third World Pope, who recognized the reality that the Catholic Church is a third world religion at this point.

In 1910, 70% of the world's Catholics lived in Europe and North America. Today, only 32% of the world's Catholics live in Europe and N. America. Part of that is due to Third World population growth, part of that is due to missionary efforts, part of that is due to the increasing secularization of the First World.

View attachment 1103339
View attachment 1103342

So it really makes no sense for the Church to continue to pander to the sensibilities of white people who are not really that into the church.

On topics that liberals care about like abortion and gay rights, the late Pope made very little change, except maybe no wagging the finger as much as his predecessors did. Kind of makes sense, as most Catholics tend to treat the Pope like a senile uncle on these issues.




Actually, Catholic priests being told to avoid politics has been a policy of the Church for some time. This was John Paul II's policy as well, which is why Rep/Fr. Robert Drinan had to give up his seat in Congress.

The problem is that you have an America-centric view of the world. Only 75 million of the world's one billion Catholics live in the US. The pope has to be concerned with all Catholics.

So, when in much of the third world, overpopulation and poverty are a crisis, the Pope realized the Church shouldn't be hitting too hard on the birth control issue. He didn't repeal *Humanae Vitae, Paul VI's ban on contraception, however.

Now, I am not a fan of the Catholic Church. I left it in 1983 and frankly, never looked back. But as Popes go, Francis was probably a step in the right direction.

All of what you say is accurate, but I disagree that it was a step in the right direction. I was raised by nuns in a very large Catholic family and was a believer until my mid twenties. The Catholic church is waning in the United States because as humans become more intelligent and have information available ti them with a few strokes on a keyboard they are seeing the lies and deceit of the Catholic religion. I ask a very simple question as to how Christianity can now say that LGTBQ are embraced when the Old Testament God said, "Homosexuals are an abomination and deserve death" and am met with silence. Some say that wasn't Jesus who said that but "God". But they can't explain how and why Jesus, his son, corrected his father of the OT especially when the bible is supposed to be timeless and inerrant and was until the mid 1900s when the church started to see declining attendance because of its subjugation of women and declared that they were wrong...women really are equal to men and don't have to obey them.

If they were an institution that didn't claim that the book they follow was timeless and written by a creator, I would be fine with their changes because hating gays and treating women as property is a bad thing. But, not to hear the bible tell it. So, they changed not because of any "deeper understanding of scripture" but because of diminishing attendance and donations. Now they go after the easy marks, the third worlders.

 

[Meriweather]

All of what you say is accurate, but I disagree that it was a step in the right direction. I was raised by nuns in a very large Catholic family and was a believer until my mid twenties. The Catholic church is waning in the United States because as humans become more intelligent and have information available ti them with a few strokes on a keyboard they are seeing the lies and deceit of the Catholic religion. I ask a very simple question as to how Christianity can now say that LGTBQ are embraced when the Old Testament God said, "Homosexuals are an abomination and deserve death" and am met with silence. Some say that wasn't Jesus who said that but "God". But they can't explain how and why Jesus, his son, corrected his father of the OT especially when the bible is supposed to be timeless and inerrant and was until the mid 1900s when the church started to see declining attendance because of its subjugation of women and declared that they were wrong...women really are equal to men and don't have to obey them.

The very simple answer to the simple question:

Start with Biblical accounts being about God in our midst. That midst/world is what we, mankind, created. God did not appear and present people with slaves. People came up with that on their own. How to fairly treat slaves is recorded in the Bible. By Jesus' time, very few Jews owned slaves due to other writings on how to people as a whole--including strangers. Slavery was still fairly common among Gentiles.

Let's take a look at LGTBQ: Start with the premise that sex has a specific purpose, and recreational use of it is outside that purpose. Read through Genesis. Nations fell when sexual discipline waned among the people. Hence the punishment for that behavior; strength of nations depended on discipline, including sexual discipline. Again, other Biblical commands break forth. Love of neighbor. Mercy. Forgiveness. However...are some now trying to place this behavior on a pedestal? If so, right beside it, we should have Pope John Paul II Theology of the Body up there with it.

Love and discipline (discerning the will of God and following it) are vital: God's work among His people did not end with getting the people to treat slaves humanely. It continued on until the people insisted (using Biblical commands of love and acceptance) on no more slavery.

The Ten Commandments are and should be a staple--cemented in so-to-speak. As far as later rules, what must be discerned were these God working with a specific people at a specific time? Or, are they merely the first step on the ladder to something better. God did not inspire this rule and vanish from our midst. No, He remains and inspires mankind to something greater. That is why The Theology of the Body is as important as care for LGTBQ. We're not going to be stuck here--let's proceed on with love, mercy, justice.

(I learned all of this from the Catholic Church you left.)

 

[Paradoxical#1]

The very simple answer to the simple question:

Start with Biblical accounts being about God in our midst. That midst/world is what we, mankind, created. God did not appear and present people with slaves. People came up with that on their own. How to fairly treat slaves is recorded in the Bible. By Jesus' time, very few Jews owned slaves due to other writings on how to people as a whole--including strangers. Slavery was still fairly common among Gentiles.

Let's take a look at LGTBQ: Start with the premise that sex has a specific purpose, and recreational use of it is outside that purpose. Read through Genesis. Nations fell when sexual discipline waned among the people. Hence the punishment for that behavior; strength of nations depended on discipline, including sexual discipline. Again, other Biblical commands break forth. Love of neighbor. Mercy. Forgiveness. However...are some now trying to place this behavior on a pedestal? If so, right beside it, we should have Pope John Paul II Theology of the Body up there with it.

Love and discipline (discerning the will of God and following it) are vital: God's work among His people did not end with getting the people to treat slaves humanely. It continued on until the people insisted (using Biblical commands of love and acceptance) on no more slavery.

The Ten Commandments are and should be a staple--cemented in so-to-speak. As far as later rules, what must be discerned were these God working with a specific people at a specific time? Or, are they merely the first step on the ladder to something better. God did not inspire this rule and vanish from our midst. No, He remains and inspires mankind to something greater. That is why The Theology of the Body is as important as care for LGTBQ. We're not going to be stuck here--let's proceed on with love, mercy, justice.

(I learned all of this from the Catholic Church you left.)

I love the internet and AI because now regular ole people like me who is a dummy on Catholicism can refute claims on the bible.

Exodus 21:20-21 discusses the treatment of slaves: "If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property". Similarly, Leviticus 25:44-46 mentions acquiring slaves from surrounding nations and treating them as property.

Your alleged God could have simply commanded that no one should be held as slaves. It was humans who decided that it was wrong. This is the same thing as is happening today. It wasn't your imagined God who said that homosexulas and LGTBQ people were OK. It was humans. YOUR God who is allegedly timeless and never wrong said they deserved death. Now, the deceased pope in trying to stem the flow of people away from their crazy dogma is ignoring all that and embracing the LGTBQ members.

The ten commandments show an insecure God who demands worship with a couple them being basic law and common sense like don't kill people and son't steal, no brainers. Do we need commandments to tell people not to do those things? No. We need laws (which we have) and jails and capital punishment.

As for sex, the reason people have it is because it feels good. Men and women both like it. Whack jobs who couldn't get a date anyway made it into something bad and supposedly just for having babies. In short religion has created mental basket cases through fear of hell because FEAR SELLS.

I learned this after I left the cult called Catholicism. Jesus today would be considered a cultist along the lines of David Koresh. He was killed for sedition, by the way. Just like the politicians today are trying to virtually assassinate Trump because he is a threat to their power, the Roams reluctantly killed Jesus because influential Jews told the authorities he was a threat.

Your religion really is Paulianity anyway. A liar who claimed a vision not corroborated by anyone.

 

[Meriweather]

I love the internet and AI because now regular ole people like me who is a dummy on Catholicism can refute claims on the bible.

Exodus 21:20-21 discusses the treatment of slaves: "If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property". Similarly, Leviticus 25:44-46 mentions acquiring slaves from surrounding nations and treating them as property.

Does AI give you the Hebrew language and the intent? Hebrew is not a subjective language, but pictures. i.e., You will be punished for killing a slave. And, do not beat a servant to the extent s/he cannot work.

 

[ding]

I love the internet and AI because now regular ole people like me who is a dummy on Catholicism can refute claims on the bible.

Exodus 21:20-21 discusses the treatment of slaves: "If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for the slave is his property". Similarly, Leviticus 25:44-46 mentions acquiring slaves from surrounding nations and treating them as property.

Your alleged God could have simply commanded that no one should be held as slaves. It was humans who decided that it was wrong. This is the same thing as is happening today. It wasn't your imagined God who said that homosexulas and LGTBQ people were OK. It was humans. YOUR God who is allegedly timeless and never wrong said they deserved death. Now, the deceased pope in trying to stem the flow of people away from their crazy dogma is ignoring all that and embracing the LGTBQ members.

The ten commandments show an insecure God who demands worship with a couple them being basic law and common sense like don't kill people and son't steal, no brainers. Do we need commandments to tell people not to do those things? No. We need laws (which we have) and jails and capital punishment.

As for sex, the reason people have it is because it feels good. Men and women both like it. Whack jobs who couldn't get a date anyway made it into something bad and supposedly just for having babies. In short religion has created mental basket cases through fear of hell because FEAR SELLS.

I learned this after I left the cult called Catholicism. Jesus today would be considered a cultist along the lines of David Koresh. He was killed for sedition, by the way. Just like the politicians today are trying to virtually assassinate Trump because he is a threat to their power, the Roams reluctantly killed Jesus because influential Jews told the authorities he was a threat.

Your religion really is Paulianity anyway. A liar who claimed a vision not corroborated by anyone.

The laws written by the Jews were heads and shoulders above that of their contemporaries.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Does AI give you the Hebrew language and the intent? Hebrew is not a subjective language, but pictures. i.e., You will be punished for killing a slave. And, do not beat a servant to the extent s/he cannot work.

So, now people have to know Hebrew in order to fully understand what the bible REALLY says?? Are you serious? But as an aside, "Do not beat a servant to the extent he cannot work" is what your God meant?