Did Jesus really exist?

[UllysesS.Archer]

There's no actual proof that Jesus existed. Kinda like Santa Claus.

You mean besides eye witness accounts

And people don't Martyr themselves for Santa Claus

What Eyewitness accounts?

Paul never met Jesus and neither did any of the Gospel writers.

So they are all second hand accounts.

??...you have evidence none of the gospel writers met Jesus?.....never mind, I know you just made it up....

Actually, since the earliest scientifically dated fragment is from John and dated C.125AD, there's no proof that any gospel was written in the person's lifetime.

actually, there's the same proof we have that the document in the National Archives is the original copy of the Constitution......the statements of those who handed it down from generation to generation......

That's truly a pointless analogy.

There's nothing in the Constitution that makes appeals to magic or supernaturalism. Why do you feel a need to equate a document written to advance the human condition free of religious compulsion within a collection of tales and fables written by authors who were largely detached from, and not witnesses to the events they only had hearsay information about?

You avoid accountability for these issues when manifest reality would demand that you simply accept facts? Too difficult?

You have no facts, only supposition. While we have something you don't, we have faith, and that is a fact!

 

[Indeependent]

The Gospel According to {X} is called The Gospel ACCORDING to {X}, NOT The Gospel Of {X} or The Gospel WRITTEN by {X}.
The Gospels were NOT written by the Apostles.

Scholars believe Matthew and John were! As both were Apostles.

Link to a reputable scholar?
John lived to be over a 100?
God bless him!

why would he have to be over a hundred?......

John was born about the same time as Yeshu and there is much speculation as to when John's books were committed to writing.
I guess he could have been around 80, which would have been a ripe old age back then.

if you guess he would have been 80 why did you say he was over a hundred.......momentary lapse into stupidity?....

As opposed to you believing that Yeshu spoke English which is permanent stupidity.

???....why would you think I believed Jesus spoke English?.....

So I put forth to you the same challenge I put forth to Archer...
Learn a bit of Hebrew, read the Bible from Genesis onwards and catch all the mistranslations and misquotes the Romans implemented to conquer the world's tribute.
I did notice your silence when Archer and I had our exchange.
Especially the Isaiah 53:8 nonsense the Church conjured up.

 

[Hollie]

Here's a big hint. No one ever has a near-death experience and says, "Whoops, sorry, I found out I was in the wrong religion! Good thing I got a second shot at this."

actually I disagree.....my brother's brush with multiple heart attacks brought him back to his beliefs before he died.....

Fear is a motivational tool used by religions.

ignorance is a debate tool used by atheists......

Not at all. What makes you incensed is that there are accurate and defendable counters to your attempts at defending a position you don't understand and is supported only by appeals to magic and supernaturalism.

Given the plethora of gawds throughout human history, none of which are open to any proof, yes, it is rational and logical to conclude that gawds are invented to explain phenomenon. Unless you are willing to argue that any number of assertions of gawds other than the ones imposed upon you as "true" doesn't illustrate this fact very clearly.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

There's no actual proof that Jesus existed. Kinda like Santa Claus.

You mean besides eye witness accounts

And people don't Martyr themselves for Santa Claus

What Eyewitness accounts?

Paul never met Jesus and neither did any of the Gospel writers.

So they are all second hand accounts.

??...you have evidence none of the gospel writers met Jesus?.....never mind, I know you just made it up....

Actually, since the earliest scientifically dated fragment is from John and dated C.125AD, there's no proof that any gospel was written in the person's lifetime.

actually, there's the same proof we have that the document in the National Archives is the original copy of the Constitution......the statements of those who handed it down from generation to generation......

At least you admit that you have no proof. It's a start.

PS I don't care who wrote the Constitution and when and where...

Sure you don't, you just want to know what America can do for you. You are a liberal, thank God, you aren't a conservative!

 

[Indeependent]

Faith is not a fact.
Trust is a manifestation of an expected fact.

 

[PostmodernProph]

The Gospel According to {X} is called The Gospel ACCORDING to {X}, NOT The Gospel Of {X} or The Gospel WRITTEN by {X}.
The Gospels were NOT written by the Apostles.

Scholars believe Matthew and John were! As both were Apostles.

Link to a reputable scholar?
John lived to be over a 100?
God bless him!

why would he have to be over a hundred?......

John was born about the same time as Yeshu and there is much speculation as to when John's books were committed to writing.
I guess he could have been around 80, which would have been a ripe old age back then.

if you guess he would have been 80 why did you say he was over a hundred.......momentary lapse into stupidity?....

As opposed to you believing that Yeshu spoke English which is permanent stupidity.

???....why would you think I believed Jesus spoke English?.....

So I put forth to you the same challenge I put forth to Archer...
Learn a bit of Hebrew, read the Bible from Genesis onwards and catch all the mistranslations and misquotes the Romans implemented to conquer the world's tribute.
I did notice your silence when Archer and I had our exchange.
Especially the Isaiah 53:8 nonsense the Church conjured up.

I have no idea who Archer is, but that's twice you've accused me of not having studied Hebrew......why do you assume I've never studied Hebrew.....and what does that have to do with claiming I think Jesus spoke English?.....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Wrong, there is a lot of proof it was John that wrote it. You wishing it away does not make it true... please try again.


And?


Whatever the name or names of the person or persons who wrote the bible, it in no way changes the fact that men did indeed write the bible, having nothing to do with 'god' or Jesus, or being 'inspired' by a 'god' that doesn't exist as perceived by you and other theists.

 

[Indeependent]

The US Constitution doesn't damn anybody to the Lake.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't threaten to burn the people I love for all eternity because they don't worship me. In fact, I think that sounds a little psychotic.

And now- The Ann and Jeff Show. Which one of these guys deserves to burn in hell for ever and ever?


Chirstian logic. Ann Burns in Hell, Jeffrey gets all his sins forgiven and goes to heaven.

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

The one who was perfect deserves to go to heaven.

But that's not Christian Dogma.

Christian Dogma is that Jeff is on a cloud wiht a harp. He took Jesus into his soul.

Ann Probably died cursing Jesus and his Nazi followers. (Keep in mind, the Pope and Hitler were BFF's during the war.)

I certainly see a lot of atheist dogma in your post......no truth unfortunately.......

But dogmatically, which one did I get wrong.

the full list?.....let's see....
clouds, harps, the assumption that Jeff believed, the assumption Ann cursed Jesus, Nazis following Jesus, Pope/Hitler BFF......I think that's everything for that post.....

Clouds and Harps are a metaphor. The real heaven involves kissing God's ass for all eternity. Oh, joy.

I have no reason to doubt that Jeff's conversion in prison was sincere.

I have no reason to doubt that Ann probably cursed Jesus when the Nazis said shit like "Jews, you are being punished for murdering Christ".

Yes, the Nazis were Christians. And, yes, Pope Pius XII was pro-Nazi.

 

[Indeependent]

that's twice you've accused me of not having studied Hebrew......why do you assume I've never studied Hebrew.....and what does that have to do with claiming I think Jesus spoke English?.....

Cool, so you know that the King James version of Isaiah 53:8 mistranslates the plural word "nation" to the singular "his".

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Um, we are discussing an imaginary land people go after they die. That no one has ever been to and reported back on.

So, yeah, not a lot truth here.

But dogmatically, which one did I get wrong.

Could Ann Frank really have gotten into heaven without embracing Jesus?

Was Jesus unable to wash away Jeffrey Dahmner's sins with Baptism?

Actually there have been people that have been to heaven and reported back but you don't believe them just as the Bible says you wouldn't. Paul and John both saw heaven.

I've been to heaven and I'm reporting back. But of course, you won't believe that just as the bibles said you wouldn't.

Obviously, you're not a true Christian.

Like you are a Christian...
I think I hurt myself laughing so hard.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I don't threaten to burn the people I love for all eternity because they don't worship me. In fact, I think that sounds a little psychotic.

And now- The Ann and Jeff Show. Which one of these guys deserves to burn in hell for ever and ever?


Chirstian logic. Ann Burns in Hell, Jeffrey gets all his sins forgiven and goes to heaven.

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

The one who was perfect deserves to go to heaven.

But that's not Christian Dogma.

Christian Dogma is that Jeff is on a cloud wiht a harp. He took Jesus into his soul.

Ann Probably died cursing Jesus and his Nazi followers. (Keep in mind, the Pope and Hitler were BFF's during the war.)

I certainly see a lot of atheist dogma in your post......no truth unfortunately.......

But dogmatically, which one did I get wrong.

the full list?.....let's see....
clouds, harps, the assumption that Jeff believed, the assumption Ann cursed Jesus, Nazis following Jesus, Pope/Hitler BFF......I think that's everything for that post.....

Clouds and Harps are a metaphor. The real heaven involves kissing God's ass for all eternity. Oh, joy.

I have no reason to doubt that Jeff's conversion in prison was sincere.

I have no reason to doubt that Ann probably cursed Jesus when the Nazis said shit like "Jews, you are being punished for murdering Christ".

Yes, the Nazis were Christians. And, yes, Pope Pius XII was pro-Nazi.

as I said.....atheist dogma.....I prefer facts.....

 

[MaxGrit]

You might want to pull your pants up, for your ignorance is showing.

All of this information, comes from the NASB study Bible, which most universities use in their studies. So, it's a college textbook.

The Book of Matthew, was written by Matthew, as early as 50 AD, or as late as the 70s AD.

The Book of Mark, was written by John Mark, composed from the 50s or early 60s AD or as late as 70 AD.

The Book of Luke, was written by the Doctor Luke, as was the Acts of the Apostles. The commonly suggested periods for writing is 59-63 AD. Acts was written in 63 AD.

The Book of John, was written by John the disciple. And was written perhaps as early as the 50's AD and no later than 70 AD. OR(there are 2 separate views regarding this Gospel), around 85 AD, the first view is what recent Bible scholars believe.

The Book of Revelation, written by John, and most scholars date the book at 95AD.

The latest books of the Bible I could find would be dated around 105AD, a far cry from 150 AD.

Matthew and John both knew Jesus, Luke may have heard Him, but there is no account of him ever meeting Jesus, firsthand, and Mark was a close friends of Peter's, it is not told when the 2 met or if Mark ever met or even saw Jesus.

Now, you can argue all you want, but this is what is taught in universities all over the world.

By the way, you just got schooled, playa!

Nice

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The Gospel According to {X} is called The Gospel ACCORDING to {X}, NOT The Gospel Of {X} or The Gospel WRITTEN by {X}.
The Gospels were NOT written by the Apostles.

Scholars believe Matthew and John were! As both were Apostles.

Link to a reputable scholar?
John lived to be over a 100?
God bless him!

why would he have to be over a hundred?......

John was born about the same time as Yeshu and there is much speculation as to when John's books were committed to writing.
I guess he could have been around 80, which would have been a ripe old age back then.

if you guess he would have been 80 why did you say he was over a hundred.......momentary lapse into stupidity?....

As opposed to you believing that Yeshu spoke English which is permanent stupidity.

???....why would you think I believed Jesus spoke English?.....

Because he has no real argument, he is just looing to latch onto anything...

 

[Indeependent]

The Gospel According to {X} is called The Gospel ACCORDING to {X}, NOT The Gospel Of {X} or The Gospel WRITTEN by {X}.
The Gospels were NOT written by the Apostles.

Scholars believe Matthew and John were! As both were Apostles.

Link to a reputable scholar?
John lived to be over a 100?
God bless him!

why would he have to be over a hundred?......

John was born about the same time as Yeshu and there is much speculation as to when John's books were committed to writing.
I guess he could have been around 80, which would have been a ripe old age back then.

if you guess he would have been 80 why did you say he was over a hundred.......momentary lapse into stupidity?....

As opposed to you believing that Yeshu spoke English which is permanent stupidity.

???....why would you think I believed Jesus spoke English?.....

Because he has no real argument, he is just looing to latch onto anything...

Coming from the man who quotes things out of context?

I bet you watched the Godfather 2 before The Godfather.
Not to mention you always read a contract starting from paragraph 5.
I bet you're not THAT stupid when it comes to your money.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What most theists continue to fail to understand – or more likely refuse to understand – is that their bible is in no way 'evidence' of the existence of 'god,' 'heaven,' or 'Jesus' as some sort of demigod.


The bible was written by men, it is consequently irrelevant, where it's ridiculous for theists to cite bible passages as 'proof' of anything.

 

[BillyP]

I don't threaten to burn the people I love for all eternity because they don't worship me. In fact, I think that sounds a little psychotic.

And now- The Ann and Jeff Show. Which one of these guys deserves to burn in hell for ever and ever?


Chirstian logic. Ann Burns in Hell, Jeffrey gets all his sins forgiven and goes to heaven.

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

The one who was perfect deserves to go to heaven.

But that's not Christian Dogma.

Christian Dogma is that Jeff is on a cloud wiht a harp. He took Jesus into his soul.

Ann Probably died cursing Jesus and his Nazi followers. (Keep in mind, the Pope and Hitler were BFF's during the war.)

I certainly see a lot of atheist dogma in your post......no truth unfortunately.......

But dogmatically, which one did I get wrong.

the full list?.....let's see....
clouds, harps, the assumption that Jeff believed, the assumption Ann cursed Jesus, Nazis following Jesus, Pope/Hitler BFF......I think that's everything for that post.....

Clouds and Harps are a metaphor. The real heaven involves kissing God's ass for all eternity. Oh, joy.

I have no reason to doubt that Jeff's conversion in prison was sincere.

I have no reason to doubt that Ann probably cursed Jesus when the Nazis said shit like "Jews, you are being punished for murdering Christ".

Yes, the Nazis were Christians. And, yes, Pope Pius XII was pro-Nazi.

as I said.....atheist dogma.....I prefer facts.....

Then why do you follow the bible?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The Gospel According to {X} is called The Gospel ACCORDING to {X}, NOT The Gospel Of {X} or The Gospel WRITTEN by {X}.
The Gospels were NOT written by the Apostles.

Scholars believe Matthew and John were! As both were Apostles.

Link to a reputable scholar?
John lived to be over a 100?
God bless him!

why would he have to be over a hundred?......

John was born about the same time as Yeshu and there is much speculation as to when John's books were committed to writing.
I guess he could have been around 80, which would have been a ripe old age back then.

if you guess he would have been 80 why did you say he was over a hundred.......momentary lapse into stupidity?....

As opposed to you believing that Yeshu spoke English which is permanent stupidity.

???....why would you think I believed Jesus spoke English?.....

So I put forth to you the same challenge I put forth to Archer...
Learn a bit of Hebrew, read the Bible from Genesis onwards and catch all the mistranslations and misquotes the Romans implemented to conquer the world's tribute.
I did notice your silence when Archer and I had our exchange.
Especially the Isaiah 53:8 nonsense the Church conjured up.

When you look at Isaiah 53, you can see that it is talking about a man, or more precisely, the Messiah, there is no way, it can be interpreted as a nation, no matter how much your Rabbis want it to be

 

[JoeB131]

[
as I said.....atheist dogma.....I prefer facts.....

Right. Facts.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What theists also continue to fail to understand is that in addition to being a logical fallacy, their ad hominem attacks on those free from faith only further undermines their already untenable positions.