Did ANYONE on this board see a savings from Obamacare?

[Penelope]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

Yes, it works so well in Canada that their politicians come to the USA for their medical procedures. Single payer is great so long as you're not truly sick. If you get a broken leg or some such, it's great. Get cancer though and you're screwed as 52,000 of them figured out so they left to get treatment so they could live.



More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds

From article:
Canada had the second-worst overall ranking among the health care systems of 11 industrialized nations and ranked last in the wait-time category. Only the American health care system ranked worse overall.

( I would imagine the 1.1% are the wealthy who can pay cash for services. Many of our people , who can afford it goes else where for treatment. The wealthy and elites , like Cheney can get a heart at his age and health , he had to pay cash for it. It would of never happened for the Average Joe.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

Yes, it works so well in Canada that their politicians come to the USA for their medical procedures. Single payer is great so long as you're not truly sick. If you get a broken leg or some such, it's great. Get cancer though and you're screwed as 52,000 of them figured out so they left to get treatment so they could live.



More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds

From article:
Canada had the second-worst overall ranking among the health care systems of 11 industrialized nations and ranked last in the wait-time category. Only the American health care system ranked worse overall.

( I would imagine the 1.1% are the wealthy who can pay cash for services. Many of our people , who can afford it goes else where for treatment. The wealthy and elites , like Cheney can get a heart at his age and health , he had to pay cash for it. It would of never happened for the Average Joe.

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

Did you see how much healthcare costs under bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert? It's why they lost power. Then lobbyists wrote the aca. To be continued. Want to fix it? How, with your same old tired ideas? God I'm sick of it.

You have no idea how expensive healthcare would be if not for the aca.

But everyone needs to be covered and costs need to go down.

Eventually single payer will be the way. Cut out the profit motive.

That will cost jobs? So what.

 

[Conservative65]

My assistant sure did. She was/is able to keep her special needs child on the company plan for several years. The separate policy for the child was going to be so much she couldn’t afford to keep working here; she would have to get a higher paying job to afford the premium.

Based on the way insurance works, you can bet it costs other people in the group more for something for which they received no benefit.

 

[Conservative65]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

Did you see how much healthcare costs under bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert? It's why they lost power. Then lobbyists wrote the aca. To be continued. Want to fix it? How, with your same old tired ideas? God I'm sick of it.

You have no idea how expensive healthcare would be if not for the aca.

But everyone needs to be covered and costs need to go down.

Eventually single payer will be the way. Cut out the profit motive.

That will cost jobs? So what.

Nothing for my premiums and a max of $750 out of pocket per year. Is that expensive to you?

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

Did you see how much healthcare costs under bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert? It's why they lost power. Then lobbyists wrote the aca. To be continued. Want to fix it? How, with your same old tired ideas? God I'm sick of it.

You have no idea how expensive healthcare would be if not for the aca.

But everyone needs to be covered and costs need to go down.

Eventually single payer will be the way. Cut out the profit motive.

That will cost jobs? So what.

Nothing for my premiums and a max of $750 out of pocket per year. Is that expensive to you?

No is that all you pay? That's wonderful. When I had to buy my own it was $300 a month. Fuck that

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

Did you see how much healthcare costs under bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert? It's why they lost power. Then lobbyists wrote the aca. To be continued. Want to fix it? How, with your same old tired ideas? God I'm sick of it.

You have no idea how expensive healthcare would be if not for the aca.

But everyone needs to be covered and costs need to go down.

Eventually single payer will be the way. Cut out the profit motive.

That will cost jobs? So what.

Nothing for my premiums and a max of $750 out of pocket per year. Is that expensive to you?

No is that all you pay? That's wonderful. When I had to buy my own it was $300 a month. Fuck that

We pay, on average, 8,500 per person per year.

That is the average. That means we need to be collecting that much. The way it gets shifted around is insurance.

But you can't pay that much out and not be collecting it.

 

[Penelope]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.[/QUOTE]

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.

 

[Conservative65]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

Did you see how much healthcare costs under bush Tom delay and Dennis hastert? It's why they lost power. Then lobbyists wrote the aca. To be continued. Want to fix it? How, with your same old tired ideas? God I'm sick of it.

You have no idea how expensive healthcare would be if not for the aca.

But everyone needs to be covered and costs need to go down.

Eventually single payer will be the way. Cut out the profit motive.

That will cost jobs? So what.

Nothing for my premiums and a max of $750 out of pocket per year. Is that expensive to you?

No is that all you pay? That's wonderful. When I had to buy my own it was $300 a month. Fuck that

Are you saying I should be willing to pay more so someone else that doesn't have it that well can get it for less? If so, fuck that.

 

[Conservative65]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.[/QUOTE]

If the people there were left out of insurance, it's your fault.

 

[Penelope]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.

If the people there were left out of insurance, it's your fault.[/QUOTE]

My fault, how is that?

 

[Synthaholic]

Anyone? Anyone at all? Our costs are up 12% since Obumblecare took effect.

The ACA was designed to get more people insured, and it has been a fantastic success in that regard.

If you were already insured then the ACA didn't affect you.

Why aren't you blaming the insurers for raising your rates?

 

[Conservative65]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.

If the people there were left out of insurance, it's your fault.

My fault, how is that?[/QUOTE]

Do you think they should have coverage even if it means someone else paying higher premiums as part of that group or higher taxes to fund a subsidy? In other words, do you think they have a right to insurance coverage?

 

[Andylusion]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.[/QUOTE]

Why didn't they expand medicaid? Are you assuming that all those states are awash with unlimited money? Maybe the voting public did not want medicaid expanded?

See the left-wing view, is the view of a child. You are talking the exact same way as children think.

Wah wah I want it wah wah.

They never consider whether mommy and daddy actually have the money. Children never consider such adult concepts as fiscal responsibility.

That's why Obama had $1 Trillion dollar deficits in the first 4 years in office.

Well I want to stimulus. I want cash for clunkers. I want I want I want.

Part of the reason we on the right, vote for Republicans, is specifically because we hope they will be more mature than the vast left-wing, and actually consider whether or not they can afford such programs.

Cash for Clunkers is a perfect example. The left-wing democrats set aside $1 Billion dollars for the program, only to have it run out of money in under ONE WEEK.

'Cash for Clunkers' Runs Out of Gas

You people never think about how much these programs are going to cost, or if you do, you plan on mythical tax revenue that never materializes.

Like Obama Care was going to be paid for by the Cadillac Insurance Tax.

Originally Congress (controlled by Democrats), projected the tax would bring in $238 Billion dollars, to offset the costs of ObamaCare.

Lavish ‘Cadillac’ Health Plans Dying as Obamacare Tax Looms

But now, we are already seeing, even before the tax is implemented, companies shifting more and more costs onto employees, to avoid the Cadillac tax. Insurance companies are offering fewer and fewer insurance policies that even have the possibility of triggering the tax.

In short, the new estimates coming out, suggest the tax could bring in as little as $20 Billion by 2019 based on the fewer and fewer plans that would trigger the tax.

Once again, the left-wings child like mind set "I want it! Give it to me!" created a system with expenses we can't cover. This is why Detroit's bankruptcy is only the beginning, as left-wing children demand more and more from governments that don't have the money to give. Look at the great single-payer government run health care in Greece.

Isn't that great? Don't you want health care like Greece? Those bars keep the patients outside the hospital, completely safe.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The question is....should it happen for the average Joe.

Life isn't fair.

No life is not fair, that is for sure. Its not fair in those Republican run states who chose not to expand Medicaid, which left many out of insurance. Not much in this world is fair, you said that right.[/QUOTE]

Correct.

Republicans (there is no right or wrong) voted in people who represented their interests.

 

[Andylusion]

I've become very adapt in recognizing when my attempt to educate will fall on death ears....

Now, if you'd said you were adept at recognizing when your attempt to education would fall on deaf ears, we might be able to get somewhere...

And single payer is shit too.

Seems to work in other countries. Apparently you think Americans aren't smart enough to make it work here.

Yes, it works so well in Canada that their politicians come to the USA for their medical procedures. Single payer is great so long as you're not truly sick. If you get a broken leg or some such, it's great. Get cancer though and you're screwed as 52,000 of them figured out so they left to get treatment so they could live.



More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds

From article:
Canada had the second-worst overall ranking among the health care systems of 11 industrialized nations and ranked last in the wait-time category. Only the American health care system ranked worse overall.

( I would imagine the 1.1% are the wealthy who can pay cash for services. Many of our people , who can afford it goes else where for treatment. The wealthy and elites , like Cheney can get a heart at his age and health , he had to pay cash for it. It would of never happened for the Average Joe.

First off, you need to notice that for that single solitary paragraph, they switched the information source. The entire article is talking about the Frazier Institute data, except for this one snipit, where they randomly bring up the Commonwealth Fund, which is known to be bias in favor of gov-care.

Additionally, they didn't actually list the publication where they made the claims from. Apparently so we couldn't look up the details of the claim.

So I happen to look up Commonwealth Fund 2014 study, which led me to the their routine "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall" report. This report is routinely bonkers.

Couple of things to point out about this.
Notice where we got 11s?

Cost-related problems. Now if you actually take the time to read the description, it has nothing to do with getting care. If you get a bill for your care.... that's a cost-related problem.

So you could get the best treatment available on the planet today... and if you get a bill for that treatment, that's a cost-related problem, which is a negative, no matter how well you are treated and cured.

Equality. So if you get the best treatment in the world, doesn't matter, because it's not equal to someone else.

Our health care system would score better, if everyone got zero treatment, because that would be "equal". Which is more important than helping people.

Healthy Lives. If I choose to smoke, I am living a less healthy life. Therefore obviously my health care system is at fault. Apparently doctors are supposed to run around town, spraying out smokers with water. Then our score would be higher.

Again, has NOTHING to do with the quality of the care. We could have the best care on the face of the Earth, and if some teenagers overdose on heroin, that means our hospitals suck. They should have known, and sent a nurse to steal the needles.

Efficiency. Once again, the left-wing has a massive part in this. If I got to General Practitioner A, and he does a bunch of tests, and then sends me to see specialists B, guess what Specialist B is going to do? All the same tests. Because if he doesn't test, and GP A missed something, and I find out Specialist B didn't check, because he just assumed GP A did all the tests.... guess who gets sued? So of course he's going to do a bunch of redundant tests.

Additionally, we just passed a massive amount of health care regulations and laws, that require tons of paperwork and administration.

And lastly, having insurance tied to the work place, also increases administration costs. And why do most companies have company sponsored health care? Aside from the Obama Care requiring it? Because of the tax deduction.

All three of those reasons are left-wing reasons, and then you want to rank us worst for this?

So what we see is that one of the areas we have an 11, is due to left-wing policies, and the other three areas are irrelevant to health care.

Now if that is not enough to discredit this BS from the left-wing pro-gov-care Commonwealth Fund.... all you have to do is look at the opposite end, and see who they ranked number 1. The UK....

Even England itself, acknowledges this.

Experts say England's lower survival rates may be attributed to patients being unaware of symptoms and to misdiagnosis by GPs. Patients may also not have been offered the most effective forms of surgery or the latest drugs.
​

Wait, what?? They are not OFFERED the most effective drugs and surgeries?

But see.... it's equal...... equally bad..... is still equal. And therefore it's better than the US. It's better than even most of the rest of Europe!

Equal, even equal crap, is equally good crap. And no cost-related problems! Crappy free care, is better than costly effective care. Doesn't matter if you die... because it cost you nothing!

Need more proof?

SkyNews did a whole report on why NHS is under threat.

NHS Crisis: Why Are Services Under Threat?

The system is failing. They are under staffed. Under funded (even though they pay almost triple the tax we do). They are cutting services. Cutting surgeries. Cutting drug availability.

This is what the left-wing Commonwealth Fund declared number 1 system over all? Zero credibility.

 

[Rambunctious]

Obamacare is falling apart, it's completely unworkable and it's a welfare program not a healthcare insurance program....just like the right has been saying. We were right and the libs were wrong. no denying it now... Now your tax dollars will have to shore it up.

 

[Rocko]

I do believe that medical cost increased every year before the ACA also..

Wasn't obama care supposed to change tgat?

 

[rdean]

I just retired. I will have full pay and the companies health care for 30 weeks and then they cut me off. They give me a stipend of $470 a month, but the health care costs $745 a month. So I called National Health Plan (Obamacare here in Chicago) and they said they can cover me the same for $500 a month. It's a bridge insurance for people who have retired before 65 or fired until they get a job that pays for their health care. So in December, I'm calling them back to have my Health Care changed. They told me I could probably get health care for $400 a month that I would be satisfied with until I got Medicare. So in December, I'll find out all the details and then make a new thread about it.
The company I worked at never paid the entire amount. They always paid about $470 a month. But I always went with the premium insurance. Besides what the company took out of my pay, I only ever had to pay $20 for the office visit. And a percentage of any medicine. The reason I'm still with the more insurance is because I'm going to get a colonoscopy, dental works and new eyeglasses. All stuff the current insurance pays either all or part of. Better not to wait.

So we will see.

 

[rdean]

I do believe that medical cost increased every year before the ACA also..

Wasn't obama care supposed to change tgat?

Republicans fought him every step of the way. How many Americans in southern states have died because Republicans hate Obama? Under Bush, medical bills were the number one cause of bankruptcy nation wide. Republicans liked it that way. They like it balls deep and the GOP gives it to them that way. Just what they want.