Dicks and Walmart getting sued HAHA

HappyJoy

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a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer. A retailer is distributing a ready made product, sold commercially on the open market. Wal-Mart, nor Dicks, are being asked to create anything. If the queers wanted to buy a ready made cake offered by the bakery; they might have a legit claim. But no law should force anyone to create an artistic work. That would be like forcing a child photographer to take pictures of you fucking your wife...
No the baker is not an 'artist' in any relevant sense.
Yes they are. Whether you like it or not. Crafting is an art. But go ahead and amuse me... Show me how a baker isn't an artist...
For starters...

The Oregon bakery case was precipitated by the sellers refusing to do business with the customers simply because they were gay,

not because of any artwork issues.
Inspiration is a fickle thing. Especially in the art world...
Do you think Dunkin' Donuts has the right to stop selling food that they make over and over again simply because the customer is gay?
 

martybegan

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And where did you stand on that issue?

a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
 

martybegan

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And where did you stand on that issue?

a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
 

HappyJoy

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a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
 

HappyJoy

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a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the meat supplier has the right not to do Business with Burger King if the owner of the store is gay?
 

martybegan

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The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
A public accomodation is a business that opens itself up to the public, allows the public on it's property, and conducts point of sale commerce. Contracted non-essential and non-timely services should not fall under the same rules.

An example would be a Hotel can be compelled to provide rooms for people regardless of who they are (as long as they can pay) as they offer rooms to the public, and the use of the room (as long as lawful) is of no concern to the owner of the hotel.

On the other hand, if the same hotel offers it's rooms out for events, it should be able to pick and choose which events it hosts, and not fall under PA laws as this is a non-essential, non-timely contracted service.
 

martybegan

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The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the meat supplier has the right not to do Business with Burger King if the owner of the store is gay?
A wholesaler again offers a point of sale service, although the question of a wholesaler being a PA is an interesting one.

Has there ever been a wholesaler that has denied service on these grounds?
 

Vastator

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And where did you stand on that issue?

a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
Sounds legit, if the person charged with actually crafting the order feels that way. Though not owning BK would be a problem for the employee. As for the Bakery; they were owner/operators so your analogy fails.
 

HappyJoy

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That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
A public accomodation is a business that opens itself up to the public, allows the public on it's property, and conducts point of sale commerce. Contracted non-essential and non-timely services should not fall under the same rules.

An example would be a Hotel can be compelled to provide rooms for people regardless of who they are (as long as they can pay) as they offer rooms to the public, and the use of the room (as long as lawful) is of no concern to the owner of the hotel.

On the other hand, if the same hotel offers it's rooms out for events, it should be able to pick and choose which events it hosts, and not fall under PA laws as this is a non-essential, non-timely contracted service.
Yeah, I understand the concept of what you are saying. I was being polite, provide a link.
 

HereWeGoAgain

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And where did you stand on that issue?

a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer. A retailer is distributing a ready made product, sold commercially on the open market. Wal-Mart, nor Dicks, are being asked to create anything. If the queers wanted to buy a ready made cake offered by the bakery; they might have a legit claim. But no law should force anyone to create an artistic work. That would be like forcing a child photographer to take pictures of you fucking your wife...
No the baker is not an 'artist' in any relevant sense.
So you wouldn't have a problem whipping one of these out by next Friday?

View attachment 180724
Is that for a gay couple?
I dont see any rainbows.
 

HappyJoy

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That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the meat supplier has the right not to do Business with Burger King if the owner of the store is gay?
A wholesaler again offers a point of sale service, although the question of a wholesaler being a PA is an interesting one.

Has there ever been a wholesaler that has denied service on these grounds?
Really? Are you purposefully not answering the question? BK and the meat supplier have a contract and the meat supplier does not sell directly to the public. Are you saying they have a right not to do business if a BK store is owned by a homosexual?
 

NYcarbineer

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a better question is where to you stand on it? Can bakeries discriminate if Walmart can discriminate?
The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer.
That's incorrect. The gay couple didn't ask the baker to create a unique cake, they simply ordered a cake that the baker already makes, they didn't ask for anything additional or creative. Basically, they ordered a product.
Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the bakers advertise that they do 'wedding cakes'. If same sex marriage is legal and entitled to equal protection under the law,
it is unconstitutional to single out same sex marriage for discrimination.
 

martybegan

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Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
A public accomodation is a business that opens itself up to the public, allows the public on it's property, and conducts point of sale commerce. Contracted non-essential and non-timely services should not fall under the same rules.

An example would be a Hotel can be compelled to provide rooms for people regardless of who they are (as long as they can pay) as they offer rooms to the public, and the use of the room (as long as lawful) is of no concern to the owner of the hotel.

On the other hand, if the same hotel offers it's rooms out for events, it should be able to pick and choose which events it hosts, and not fall under PA laws as this is a non-essential, non-timely contracted service.
Yeah, I understand the concept of what you are saying. I was being polite, provide a link.
Why do I need a link? This is my opinion on what a PA is, and is not.

States are the ones who have extended the meaning to include "any time money changes hands"
 

HappyJoy

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What does 'contracted. not point of sale' have to do with anything?
it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
A public accomodation is a business that opens itself up to the public, allows the public on it's property, and conducts point of sale commerce. Contracted non-essential and non-timely services should not fall under the same rules.

An example would be a Hotel can be compelled to provide rooms for people regardless of who they are (as long as they can pay) as they offer rooms to the public, and the use of the room (as long as lawful) is of no concern to the owner of the hotel.

On the other hand, if the same hotel offers it's rooms out for events, it should be able to pick and choose which events it hosts, and not fall under PA laws as this is a non-essential, non-timely contracted service.
Yeah, I understand the concept of what you are saying. I was being polite, provide a link.
Why do I need a link? This is my opinion on what a PA is, and is not.

States are the ones who have extended the meaning to include "any time money changes hands"

Oh, OK. I didn't realize we were debating a make believe world in your head. My bad.
 

Vastator

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The difference is that a baker is an artist, and as such has to craft the item desired by the customer. A retailer is distributing a ready made product, sold commercially on the open market. Wal-Mart, nor Dicks, are being asked to create anything. If the queers wanted to buy a ready made cake offered by the bakery; they might have a legit claim. But no law should force anyone to create an artistic work. That would be like forcing a child photographer to take pictures of you fucking your wife...
No the baker is not an 'artist' in any relevant sense.
Yes they are. Whether you like it or not. Crafting is an art. But go ahead and amuse me... Show me how a baker isn't an artist...
For starters...

The Oregon bakery case was precipitated by the sellers refusing to do business with the customers simply because they were gay,

not because of any artwork issues.
Inspiration is a fickle thing. Especially in the art world...
Do you think Dunkin' Donuts has the right to stop selling food that they make over and over again simply because the customer is gay?
If the customers point of contact was the owner. But I believe DD is a publicly held corporation. That changes things.
 

martybegan

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Contracted, not point of sale.

PA law shouldn't apply in this narrow case.
So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the meat supplier has the right not to do Business with Burger King if the owner of the store is gay?
A wholesaler again offers a point of sale service, although the question of a wholesaler being a PA is an interesting one.

Has there ever been a wholesaler that has denied service on these grounds?
Really? Are you purposefully not answering the question? BK and the meat supplier have a contract and the meat supplier does not sell directly to the public. Are you saying they have a right not to do business if a BK store is owned by a homosexual?
Actually it's an interesting question, but I would say no, they would not be able to deny sale due to the point of sale nature of the transaction, and of no other compelling interests, such as potential 1st amendment issues.

Again, has this even ever come up?
 

martybegan

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it has to do with the original concept of a Public Accomodation.
Please do demonstrate your point in the real world.
A public accomodation is a business that opens itself up to the public, allows the public on it's property, and conducts point of sale commerce. Contracted non-essential and non-timely services should not fall under the same rules.

An example would be a Hotel can be compelled to provide rooms for people regardless of who they are (as long as they can pay) as they offer rooms to the public, and the use of the room (as long as lawful) is of no concern to the owner of the hotel.

On the other hand, if the same hotel offers it's rooms out for events, it should be able to pick and choose which events it hosts, and not fall under PA laws as this is a non-essential, non-timely contracted service.
Yeah, I understand the concept of what you are saying. I was being polite, provide a link.
Why do I need a link? This is my opinion on what a PA is, and is not.

States are the ones who have extended the meaning to include "any time money changes hands"

Oh, OK. I didn't realize we were debating a make believe world in your head. My bad.
We are debating concepts, if you are not up to it, may I suggest they Hello Kitty message board as something more your speed?
 

HappyJoy

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No the baker is not an 'artist' in any relevant sense.
Yes they are. Whether you like it or not. Crafting is an art. But go ahead and amuse me... Show me how a baker isn't an artist...
For starters...

The Oregon bakery case was precipitated by the sellers refusing to do business with the customers simply because they were gay,

not because of any artwork issues.
Inspiration is a fickle thing. Especially in the art world...
Do you think Dunkin' Donuts has the right to stop selling food that they make over and over again simply because the customer is gay?
If the customers point of contact was the owner. But I believe DD is a publicly held corporation. That changes things.
Not if it's franchised.
 

martybegan

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No the baker is not an 'artist' in any relevant sense.
Yes they are. Whether you like it or not. Crafting is an art. But go ahead and amuse me... Show me how a baker isn't an artist...
For starters...

The Oregon bakery case was precipitated by the sellers refusing to do business with the customers simply because they were gay,

not because of any artwork issues.
Inspiration is a fickle thing. Especially in the art world...
Do you think Dunkin' Donuts has the right to stop selling food that they make over and over again simply because the customer is gay?
If the customers point of contact was the owner. But I believe DD is a publicly held corporation. That changes things.
I don't think an employee has that right anyway. As long as it is point of sale, and in a location the owner has opened to the public, PA laws apply.
 

HappyJoy

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So if a gay person orders a Whopper at BK, they have to sell it to him, but if a gay person orders a Whopper without cheese,

BK can refuse because they don't do special orders for gays?

lol
The change in the product is still point of sale, and they specifically include that in their point of sale concept. (hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us)

It really isn't that hard to figure out.
But the meat supplier has the right not to do Business with Burger King if the owner of the store is gay?
A wholesaler again offers a point of sale service, although the question of a wholesaler being a PA is an interesting one.

Has there ever been a wholesaler that has denied service on these grounds?
Really? Are you purposefully not answering the question? BK and the meat supplier have a contract and the meat supplier does not sell directly to the public. Are you saying they have a right not to do business if a BK store is owned by a homosexual?
Actually it's an interesting question, but I would say no, they would not be able to deny sale due to the point of sale nature of the transaction, and of no other compelling interests, such as potential 1st amendment issues.

Again, has this even ever come up?
I see, in other words you're kind of caving on your argument. But, we've already confirmed your not working with reality.
 

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