Democrats, Pacifism, and Felons

[emptystep]

Of course I knew....he did so in the hopes of getting sympathy for a reduces sentence.

But it in no way mitigates the refusal of Liberalism to confront evil.

Don't be afraid to focus on this pillar of Liberalism.....

Defend it if you can.

What are you talking about? We confront Republicans all the time.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course I knew....he did so in the hopes of getting sympathy for a reduces sentence.

But it in no way mitigates the refusal of Liberalism to confront evil.

Don't be afraid to focus on this pillar of Liberalism.....

Defend it if you can.

What are you talking about? We confront Republicans all the time.

The OP indicts Liberals for an anti-social attitude.


Defend the desire to support felons at the expense of innocent citizens if you like.

 

[g5000]

Of course I knew....he did so in the hopes of getting sympathy for a reduces sentence.

I love how you just make shit up on the fly!

Why do you throw away your integrity so cheaply?

But it in no way mitigates the refusal of Liberalism to confront evil.

Don't be afraid to focus on this pillar of Liberalism.....

Defend it if you can.

So tell us, if good Lutherans who obey the tenets of their church oppose the death penalty, does that make them Pillars of Liberalism™?

 

[emptystep]

Of course I knew....he did so in the hopes of getting sympathy for a reduces sentence.

But it in no way mitigates the refusal of Liberalism to confront evil.

Don't be afraid to focus on this pillar of Liberalism.....

Defend it if you can.

What are you talking about? We confront Republicans all the time.

The OP indicts Liberals for an anti-social attitude.


Defend the desire to support felons at the expense of innocent citizens if you like.

PC is indicting someone for anti-social attitudes?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course I knew....he did so in the hopes of getting sympathy for a reduces sentence.

I love how you just make shit up on the fly!

Why do you throw away your integrity so cheaply?

But it in no way mitigates the refusal of Liberalism to confront evil.

Don't be afraid to focus on this pillar of Liberalism.....

Defend it if you can.

So tell us, if good Lutherans who obey the tenets of their church oppose the death penalty, does that make them Pillars of Liberalism™?

1. "I love how you just make s up on the fly!"

And there is the proof of the old saying: 'we can only judge others by ourselves'

It wasn't necessary for you to admit to being dishonest....it was clear.


2. "So tell us,...

Us?
What self-respecting individual would admit to being associated with a worm like you?

Coach Sandusky will get a job on Sesame Street before you ‘get smart’

 

[g5000]

1. "I love how you just make s up on the fly!"

And there is the proof of the old saying: 'we can only judge others by ourselves'

It wasn't necessary for you to admit to being dishonest....it was clear.

You made up a lie. Or do you have evidence Ryan placed a moratorium on the death penalty in 2000 to get a reduced sentence in his 2005 trial?

You shot your mouth off and blew your integrity to shit.

2. "So tell us,...

Us?
What self-respecting individual would admit to being associated with a worm like you?

Coach Sandusky will get a job on Sesame Street before you ‘get smart’

Feeling cornered? Don't want to admit a good Lutheran should be against the death penalty. I understand. You leapt before you looked.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Democrats are more worried about making prisoners comfortable or releasing them early than they are about punishing and reforming them. The criminals will be released even though they are just as dangerous, if not more so, than when they were convicted.

They treat terrorism the same. They were more aghast at the thought of enhanced interrogation than countless acts of mass murder by terrorist organizations. While the worst attack on our soil has been reduced to a national day of volunteering, enhanced interrogation remains a huge issue with the left. Forgiving those ruthless murderers fits in with their pacifist nature. Coming down hard on terrorists and other murderers is what they see as unforgivable. While they use the death of innocents as an excuse to disarm the public, don't expect them to shed a tear for the countless victims who will die because they are unable to protect themselves.

They pretend that no one really wants to harm others and all that is needed is some kindness to encourage killers to change their evil ways. Fighting against evil isn't an option for the left. Pacifying those who are evil temporarily makes things seem okay and worthless "feel good" legislation has always been preferrable to those who are unwilling or unable to admit that there are evil people and that it's okay to literally fight against them.

I would like to see our prison system operate more as rehabilitation centers instead of training grounds for criminals and gangs. As it is, they are thrown in there to fend for themselves and it would seem the guards aren't able to protect prisoners from other prisoners.

We have to acknowledge that there are psychopaths in this world who were born without a conscience and will never change. They kill people with less emotion than most do killing spiders. Members of the drug cartels, gangs and terrorists are a lot alike. Killing people is all in a day's work and they don't lose a moment of sleep. The left tends to sympathize with these people rather than fear or despise them. Funny how they can be so benevolent to cold-blooded killers, yet hold the average citizen in such contempt.

Last week you idiots were attacking Obama for killing terrorists.

I guess you got bored with that bashing and decided to try it from the opposite direction.

Excuse me, idiot, but would you link to the post of mine to back that up?

If you wish to distinguish yourself from the rightwing nut consensus by stating unequivocally that the people around here who said that Obama did not have the right to kill American Al Qaeda with drones -

those people are full of shit morons -

by all means do so.

 

[g5000]

1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” expresses a nearly universal Left-wing view.
a. The Left believes that just about every conflict can be settled through negotiations, that war solves nothing, and that American expenditures on defense are merely a sign of militarism, imperialism, and the insatiable appetite of the “military-industrial complex.”
b. In fact, violence is deemed immoral, and the use of the military considered nefarious, unless it is used as boy scouts would be.
Dennis Prager

1968 statement on Vietnam by the Lutherans:

We commend the Government of the United States for its unilateral de-escalation of the war which paved the way for the beginning of preliminary discussions in Paris, and urge that every responsible effort be made to secure a cease-fire agreement at the earliest possible date.

We encourage continued re-examination of the foreign policy of our Government. Public discussion needs to consider the role of the United States in international affairs and the requirements of our national interest. Christians as well as other citizens must share responsibility for helping to define the objectives of foreign policy and to subject its operation to critical review.

Pillars of Liberalism™.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Pacifism after WWI my butt. America's problem was mainly GOP isolationists who ruined the League of Nations, started the Great Depression which gave Hitler and Japanese militarists their big break, and then then let them run wild until we were finally attacked.

Dems are hardly pacifists, but since WWII Pubs make a lot of money from militarism and lately stupid wars and chickenhawkism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. "I love how you just make s up on the fly!"

And there is the proof of the old saying: 'we can only judge others by ourselves'

It wasn't necessary for you to admit to being dishonest....it was clear.

You made up a lie. Or do you have evidence Ryan placed a moratorium on the death penalty in 2000 to get a reduced sentence in his 2005 trial?

You shot your mouth off and blew your integrity to shit.

2. "So tell us,...

Us?
What self-respecting individual would admit to being associated with a worm like you?

Coach Sandusky will get a job on Sesame Street before you ‘get smart’

Feeling cornered? Don't want to admit a good Lutheran should be against the death penalty. I understand. You leapt before you looked.

How about you slip back under your rock.

 

[emptystep]

1. "I love how you just make s up on the fly!"

And there is the proof of the old saying: 'we can only judge others by ourselves'

It wasn't necessary for you to admit to being dishonest....it was clear.

You made up a lie. Or do you have evidence Ryan placed a moratorium on the death penalty in 2000 to get a reduced sentence in his 2005 trial?

You shot your mouth off and blew your integrity to shit.

2. "So tell us,...

Us?
What self-respecting individual would admit to being associated with a worm like you?

Coach Sandusky will get a job on Sesame Street before you ‘get smart’

Feeling cornered? Don't want to admit a good Lutheran should be against the death penalty. I understand. You leapt before you looked.

How about you slip back under your rock.

Nice fresh hot coffee, warm toast lightly buttered, and that is the best you could come up with? STOP DRINKING DECAF!

 

[JoeB131]

1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism.

When you start out your argument with a statement that isn't true, it's hard to take the rest of your OCD argument seriously.

A Democrat got us into WWI over Republican objections.
A Democrat got us into WWII over Republican objections. (Although Pearl Harbor sort of ended the debate.)
A Democrat got us into Korea, and it took a Republican to get us out.
A Democrat got us into Vietnam...

Now, true, AFTER Vietnam, the Democrats became more pacifistic. And unfortunately, that gave the GOP an opening with Nixon and Reagan to go back to doing what they did before- gutting the middle class and undoing the New Deal.

 

[JoeB131]

1.

2. The domestic version of pacifism is practiced regularly by Liberal elected officials. The was Massachusetts Democrat Governor Dukakis, who " believed that it was “rehabilitative” for prisoners to be allowed to roam the streets unsupervised in what was known as the Prison Furlough Program.... convicted murderer Willie Horton was released from the Northeastern Correctional Center in Concord. Under state law, he had become eligible for an unguarded, 48-hour furlough. He never came back....Horton punched, pistol-whipped, and kicked Barnes – and also cut him 22 times across his midsection.
When Barnes’ fiancée Angela returned that evening, Horton gagged her and savagely raped her twice."

...?

Again, you are being disingenuous here. The furlough program in MA was started by a REPUBLICAN governor, Francis Sargeant. A court said- illogically- that it should apply to people serving life sentences instead of the sensible position of transitioning inmates about to be released. It was finally abolished during Dukakis term. So a Republican develops a bad program, Dukakis fixes it, and it's his fault.

(I do blame Dukakis for being such a wuss on this issue.)

 

[JoeB131]

3. Then there was Illinois Democrat Governor Pat Quinn..."To have a consistent, perfect death penalty system ... that's impossible in our state," Quinn told reporters. "I think it's the right and just thing to abolish the death penalty and punish those who commit heinous crimes -- evil people -- with life in prison without parole and no chance of release."
Illinois governor signs death penalty ban | Reuters

And again, here is where you are being disingenous.

It was a REPUBLICAN governor, George Ryan who suspended all executions in the state of Illinois after 14 death penalty cases were overturned when it was determined by DNA evidence or further investigation that the person convicted didn't do what they were accused of.

One particularly notorious case was that of Rolando Cruz, convicted and condemned - twice- of killing a 10 year old after another man- Brian Dugan- confessed to the crime. In the middle of Cruz's third trial- largely considered a travesty- Dugan's DNA was finally tested against the evidence and it was determined beyond all doubt he had killed the victim.

After a board appointed by Ryan admitted that the system was so flawed that there was no way to determine with absolute certainty that an innocent person wouldn't be executed by mistake, Ryan was the one who commutted all 168 death sentences in IL to life imprisonment.

All Quinn did was admit that the system was still not fixed and couldn't be fixed. Ironically, one of the guys who benefited from this was Brian Dugan, who was finally convicted of that murder, but had his death sentence set aside.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1
How 'bout this...

"Supreme Court Sonia Sotomayor wants to give jailbirds the right to vote. It's her opinion that the federal Voting Rights Act can be used to force states to allow voting by currently imprisoned felons. Ms. Sotomayor's dissenting opinion in a 2006 felon-voting case should make senators extremely wary of confirming her for the high court."
Democrats want to let convicted felons and felons in prison vote! Do you think this should be allowed or not?

The big lies that rightwingers tell on USMB are usually easy to deal with. Some posters however, like to make the task a bit more challenging by shotgunning the board with a volley of little lies, buried in the clutter and underbrush of their habitually interminable posts,

like the one above.

The claim is that Judge Sotomayor wants to give felons the vote. The claim is made as if that is Judge Sotomayor's personal opinion and preference, and it is 'supported' by a link, which gives the lie an air of credibility...

...unless of course one actually reads the link, and then follows up by tracking down the original source material from which the lie is constructed.

Let's look at what Sotomayor actually SAID in her dissent:

I join in Judge Parker's dissent, and write this separate opinion only to emphasize one point. I fear that the many pages of the majority opinion and concurrences — and the many pages of the dissent that are necessary to explain why they are wrong — may give the impression that this case is in some way complex. It is not.

It is plain to anyone reading the Voting Rights Act that it applies to all "voting 368*368 qualification." And it is equally plain that § 5-106 disqualifies a group of people from voting. These two propositions should constitute the entirety of our analysis. Section 2 of the Act by its unambiguous terms subjects felony disenfranchisement and all other voting qualifications to its coverage.

The duty of a judge is to follow the law, not to question its plain terms. I do not believe that Congress wishes us to disregard the plain language of any statute or to invent exceptions to the statutes it has created. The majority's "wealth of persuasive evidence" that Congress intended felony disenfranchisement laws to be immune from scrutiny under § 2 of the Act, Maj. Op. at 322, includes not a single legislator actually saying so. But even if Congress had doubts about the wisdom of subjecting felony disenfranchisement laws to the results test of § 2, I trust that Congress would prefer to make any needed changes itself, rather than have courts do so for it.

I respectfully dissent.

...the italics are mine. Is she objecting to felons being denied the vote? Anywhere? Or, is it that she is objecting to what is commonly called 'legislating from the bench'?

You tell us.

hayden v. pataki - Google Scholar

Let's stop the little lies too.

 

[Bfgrn]

Liberals are pacifists AND authoritarians (fascists, communists, dictators, despots).

PICK ONE PC, because they cannot coexist in personality markers...


While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.

2. The domestic version of pacifism is practiced regularly by Liberal elected officials. The was Massachusetts Democrat Governor Dukakis, who " believed that it was “rehabilitative” for prisoners to be allowed to roam the streets unsupervised in what was known as the Prison Furlough Program.... convicted murderer Willie Horton was released from the Northeastern Correctional Center in Concord. Under state law, he had become eligible for an unguarded, 48-hour furlough. He never came back....Horton punched, pistol-whipped, and kicked Barnes – and also cut him 22 times across his midsection.
When Barnes’ fiancée Angela returned that evening, Horton gagged her and savagely raped her twice."

...?

Again, you are being disingenuous here. The furlough program in MA was started by a REPUBLICAN governor, Francis Sargeant. A court said- illogically- that it should apply to people serving life sentences instead of the sensible position of transitioning inmates about to be released. It was finally abolished during Dukakis term. So a Republican develops a bad program, Dukakis fixes it, and it's his fault.

(I do blame Dukakis for being such a wuss on this issue.)

1. When America is governed by conservatives, it uses the language of good and evil, language regarded by the left as "Manichean"; and even worse, religious. And, in fact, it is: the Judeo-Christian traditions label actions as ‘good’ or ‘evil,’ due to morality and/or self-control; the Left sees the results as due to material inequality, i.e., violent crime due to poverty.

2. A distinguishing characteristic of Liberals and Leftists is an aversion to recognizing or acknowledging evil and its permutations,…the proclivity to appease evil and ignore the sad facts of life. Childish, it is a form of wishful thinking.

a. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, the same one that OK’d gay marriage, ruled that prison furloughs had to be extended to first-degree murderers. This, due to Governor Michael Dukakis eliminating the death penalty.

b. Furloughs: outside visits to prepare convicts who would be released back into the community. Certainly not those with a life sentence.

c. Wait….don’t Liberals say that life in prison without the possibility of parole is just as good as capital punishment? Anyway….

d. Even the Massachusetts legislature realized the ruling was insane…and passed a law prohibiting the furloughs. But, with the support of the usual suspects, the ACLU, the Democrat Governor Dukakis vetoed the bill. Off goes a savage murderer, Willie Horton.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism.

When you start out your argument with a statement that isn't true, it's hard to take the rest of your OCD argument seriously.

A Democrat got us into WWI over Republican objections.
A Democrat got us into WWII over Republican objections. (Although Pearl Harbor sort of ended the debate.)
A Democrat got us into Korea, and it took a Republican to get us out.
A Democrat got us into Vietnam...

Now, true, AFTER Vietnam, the Democrats became more pacifistic. And unfortunately, that gave the GOP an opening with Nixon and Reagan to go back to doing what they did before- gutting the middle class and undoing the New Deal.

1. In the quote you provide, "Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism."

2. Many universities have departments of “peace studies.” “The field of Peace Studies is alternatively known as Peace and Conflict Studies, Conflict Analysis and Resolution, and Peace and Justice Studies. It is concerned with the roots of conflict, the conditions for peace, and, ultimately, the daunting challenge of realizing peace on our little planet. To that end, if you major in Peace Studies, you'll read about and (hopefully) add to the large body of scholarship on the causes and prevention of war and how to create a more just and peaceful world.”
Peace Studies


3. A central theme of Leftism is pacifism, largely because no welfare state can afford a strong military. Europeans came to rely on America to fight the world’s evils and even to defend their countries. This means that ‘equality’ trumps morality.


4. Everything associated with the military is held in disrepute: nationalism, a strong military, honoring the military, referring to military dead as heroes. And even referring to anything as “evil.”

a. Since the end of WWII, the Left has opposed fighting almost any evil. Even when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, the Left opposed military intervention. What could be more moral than opposing Saddam’s take-over of a nation, and considering the strategic importance of the area, and even the fact that the UN supported the use of the military…still, two-thirds of the House Democrats, and 46 of 56 Democrat Senators voted against the war.

b. Pacifism, the antithesis of nationalism, is a major attraction of both the United Nations and the World Court, both venerated by the Left. These vaunted institutions are opposed to all nationalism, except, of course, Palestinian.

5. The generalization of pacifism leads to the Left’s view of nationalism, and then to contempt for the idea of American exceptionalism, of an America which is prepared to use force to fight what it deems as evil, an affirmation of traditional Judeo-Christian values which include support for the death penalty.

And, of course that is the theme of the OP.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1.

2. The domestic version of pacifism is practiced regularly by Liberal elected officials. The was Massachusetts Democrat Governor Dukakis, who " believed that it was “rehabilitative” for prisoners to be allowed to roam the streets unsupervised in what was known as the Prison Furlough Program.... convicted murderer Willie Horton was released from the Northeastern Correctional Center in Concord. Under state law, he had become eligible for an unguarded, 48-hour furlough. He never came back....Horton punched, pistol-whipped, and kicked Barnes – and also cut him 22 times across his midsection.
When Barnes’ fiancée Angela returned that evening, Horton gagged her and savagely raped her twice."

...?

Again, you are being disingenuous here. The furlough program in MA was started by a REPUBLICAN governor, Francis Sargeant. A court said- illogically- that it should apply to people serving life sentences instead of the sensible position of transitioning inmates about to be released. It was finally abolished during Dukakis term. So a Republican develops a bad program, Dukakis fixes it, and it's his fault.

(I do blame Dukakis for being such a wuss on this issue.)

1. Do you know the meaning of 'disingenuous'?

Here....let me help:

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/ˌdisinˈjenyo͞oəs/
Adjective
Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
Synonyms
insincere - false - devious - hollow-hearted


As I am none of those things....nor does your post suggest disingenuousness....some friendly advice:
Stick to words whose meaning you understand and you'll appear ever so much more intelligent.



2. "The furlough program in MA was started by a REPUBLICAN governor, Francis Sargeant."

Didn't you understand, as well, the phrase "practiced regularly by Liberal elected officials."
In what way does your post invalidate that?

It doesn't.
Thus....you are 'disingenuous.'

And....Sargeant's furlough plan did not extend to first-degree murderers....such as Willie Horton. And...Sargeant qualifies as a "Liberal elected official." Check his record.



3. "Dukakis fixes it, and it's his fault."

Gee....looks like you are being disingenuous again.

From post #37: Even the Massachusetts legislature realized the ruling was insane…and passed a law prohibiting the furloughs. But, with the support of the usual suspects, the ACLU, the Democrat Governor Dukakis vetoed the bill. Off goes a savage murderer, Willie Horton.

BTW....When Cliff Barnes and Angela Miller, the couple that Horton attacked, recovered, they flew to Boston to request a meeting with Democrat Dukakis, hoping for an apology, perhaps some explanation. Dukakis refused to admit that furloughing remorseless murderers was a mistake…and hid from the couple. He issued a statement reaffirming his strong support for furloughing first-degree murderers.



So what have we learned?

1. I am never less than accurate.

2. You....not so much.

 

[JoeB131]

I thought the theme of the OP was showing how impervious to reason and logic you are.

Yes, the Furlough program in MA was mismanaged by Republicans, and Dukakis wasn't assertive enough in correcting it...

But come on, do you spend every waking moment of your life brainwashing yourself like this?

Get out, smell the roses, and get a reality check.