Democrat Platform destroys the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

How about computer criminals who are banned from using computers or the internet?

That’s a good question... no I wouldn’t ban hackers from using computers it is obviously their talent. I’d hope they could harness their skills for good so I’d likely support controlled use for a probationary period. Hopefully they get a good job in the industry where they can apply their knowledge productively

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

Thank you. See.......when I can debate someone who doesn't start talking about male sex organs when we talk about guns, I feel no need to return the insults.........I disagree with a lot of what you want but am more than happy to keep it on policy, without name calling........too bad the other more extreme anti-gunners here can't do that....

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If a BG check is not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If a BG check is not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

There is no way I will ever sign on to universal background checks......they are simply the step needed for anti-gunners to demand gun registration....the true goal for UBCs........we can do all the crime fighting around guns without them......

Also, UBCs will be used as more hoops and tricks to get normal gun owners in felony trouble for paperwork crimes that have nothing to do with actual gun crime....


So again....Hard No on universal background checks.

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

Apologies I wasn’t clear. a straw buyer could go buy the gun legally and then “sell” it to a felon and under your plan that straw buyer would be breaking no laws... is that correct?

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

Apologies I wasn’t clear. a straw buyer could go buy the gun legally and then “sell” it to a felon and under your plan that straw buyer would be breaking no laws... is that correct?

No.....if a legal gun buyer buys a gun....for the purpose of selling it to criminals, he is a straw buyer and he is breaking the law and can be arrested when caught.

It is against the law to knowingly sell a gun to a criminal.

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If a BG check is not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

There is no way I will ever sign on to universal background checks......they are simply the step needed for anti-gunners to demand gun registration....the true goal for UBCs........we can do all the crime fighting around guns without them......

Also, UBCs will be used as more hoops and tricks to get normal gun owners in felony trouble for paperwork crimes that have nothing to do with actual gun crime....


So again....Hard No on universal background checks.

To be clear though... UBCs are the best solution to your expressed idea to not legal sell to violent felons and the mentally ill... you are objecting to it simply because you fear that it will lead to registration. Right?

 

[bripat9643]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

5th Amendment​

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. ​

In other words, you can be deprived of your rights with due process of law.

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

Apologies I wasn’t clear. a straw buyer could go buy the gun legally and then “sell” it to a felon and under your plan that straw buyer would be breaking no laws... is that correct?

No.....if a legal gun buyer buys a gun....for the purpose of selling it to criminals, he is a straw buyer and he is breaking the law and can be arrested when caught.

It is against the law to knowingly sell a gun to a criminal.

Hmmm that’s a pretty weak system there. Proving somebody bought with the intent to sell is near impossible and proving that the seller knew without a doubt that the buyer was a felon ineligible of buying a gun is another hurdle.

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If a BG check is not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

There is no way I will ever sign on to universal background checks......they are simply the step needed for anti-gunners to demand gun registration....the true goal for UBCs........we can do all the crime fighting around guns without them......

Also, UBCs will be used as more hoops and tricks to get normal gun owners in felony trouble for paperwork crimes that have nothing to do with actual gun crime....


So again....Hard No on universal background checks.

To be clear though... UBCs are the best solution to your expressed idea to not legal sell to violent felons and the mentally ill... you are objecting to it simply because you fear that it will lead to registration. Right?

No...they aren't. Since straw buyers can pass any background check, they can pass a background check for a private sale.....so they fail even at that.

My objection is that they will lead to gun registration...there is no way you could have universal background checks without also having to register all guns....and we know from recent and past history from Britain, France, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, New York......that registration leads to banning and confiscation...

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

Apologies I wasn’t clear. a straw buyer could go buy the gun legally and then “sell” it to a felon and under your plan that straw buyer would be breaking no laws... is that correct?

No.....if a legal gun buyer buys a gun....for the purpose of selling it to criminals, he is a straw buyer and he is breaking the law and can be arrested when caught.

It is against the law to knowingly sell a gun to a criminal.

Hmmm that’s a pretty weak system there. Proving somebody bought with the intent to sell is near impossible and proving that the seller knew without a doubt that the buyer was a felon ineligible of buying a gun is another hurdle.

No....it isn't weak...we catch straw buyers all the time.....given up by the criminals who bought the guns, just like with illegal drugs. The system falls apart when prosecutors give light sentences to straw buyers that we catch.

And again....... the criminal who buys the gun already knows they can't buy the gun...and they can be arrested when they are caught with the gun....so universal background checks solve nothing.

 

[2aguy]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

In most places they lose the right to vote. It may be a question for the Supreme Court......

At the same time.....would you allow child molestors to be able to work with children after their sentence?

Hell no I wouldn’t let molesters work with kids. And I also wouldn’t sell a gun to a felon who committed a crime with a gun. I agree with you there. But the question of constitutionality still stands and that’s what the extreme gun rights advocates constantly default to. Any regulation is infringement and thus illegal. I don’t agree with that and it appears that you don’t either.

Side note, I debate you quite often on this issue and see some areas differently but I respect your knowledge and commitment to the issue. You are perhaps the most informed poster that I’ve seen on this site when it comes to guns.

As far as infringements........ I can't think of any that I would support other than for actual criminals......

What about mentally ill individuals?

If they are adjudicated dangerously mentally ill...by actual professionals......then we could prohibit them from owning guns...but the number of people who would actually fit that bill is tiny......

So you’d basically want to create a database where all violent criminals and and mentally ill individuals could be reported and then that system would be used to check the background of a buyer to make sure they aren’t on that list. If they clear then they are good to buy. Does that sound right?

Felons are already in a data base......that is what the police check when they ask for your license at a traffice stop.....this is why we don't need to register guns.... same thing could be done for the dangerously mentally ill.......

If these individuals show up at a gun store, they run their soc. and birth date.....and it should pop up instantly, then they can be denied.

I wouldn't have it for private sales since that requires registering guns.

If it’s not applied to private sales then doesn’t that enable straw buyers? And doesn’t a universal BG check system make the most sense to tie in both criminal and mental records into a nationwide database?? Otherwise what stops somebody from just going to a neighboring state to buy their weapons?

No......straw buyers can pass any background check....so a straw buyer simply buys from a gun store. And if for some reason they wanted a gun from a private seller, if we had universal background checks they could pass the background check for the private sale.

It is already illegal for a criminal to buy a gun anywhere....so when they are caught they can be arrested....if you want to catch the person who sold the gun....you do like we do with drug arrests, you get the criminal to flip on the gun seller...hence, no need for universal background checks.......

And again... you need gun registration for universal background checks, and that is a non starter with a Hard No.......

Gun stores in neighboring states also do federal background checks.....and it is still against the law to sell guns to criminals no matter what state.......

On top of all of that...criminals do not use private sales as their source for guns.....they fear under cover police officers.....most buys are from gun stores through straw buyers or from people they actually know, friends and family.

Apologies I wasn’t clear. a straw buyer could go buy the gun legally and then “sell” it to a felon and under your plan that straw buyer would be breaking no laws... is that correct?

No.....if a legal gun buyer buys a gun....for the purpose of selling it to criminals, he is a straw buyer and he is breaking the law and can be arrested when caught.

It is against the law to knowingly sell a gun to a criminal.

Hmmm that’s a pretty weak system there. Proving somebody bought with the intent to sell is near impossible and proving that the seller knew without a doubt that the buyer was a felon ineligible of buying a gun is another hurdle.

Then you would say the system where a criminal is allowed to remain silent, can't be forcefully questioned and is allowed to have a lawyer makes it more difficult to get a criminal off the street......

That is about the same as demanding gun registration which will lead to bans and confiscation ..........when you say that not having universal background checks makes the system weaker....

 

[Slade3200]

Only through licensed dealers....the system we currently have....and only if we can get the same data base the cops use and make background check instant. No reason that with the tech we have that we can't do that.

Felons should be restricted and we can discuss for how long after they are off of parole...

With my plan, however, violent gun criminals would be serving 30 years for any crime.... real crime.....committed with a gun.....and attempted murder or murder with a gun would be life...but preferably the death penalty...

So...... embezzle money and become a felon...lose your right to own a gun till your time is served....use a gun for rape, robbery or murder.......you go away minimum 30 years....no parole.

So, you agree with Slade3200 that reasonable restrictions and infringements are OK. Your only disagreement with him and O'Rourke are what infringements are reasonable.

Reasonable restrictions are not okay. But we need to stop the forward movement before we can take ground back. We can't get Republicans to pass national carry, how do you think we are going to get them to back ending current federal background checks at gun stores....?

Booooo, you’re backing off you earlier argument that felons should not be able to buy guns. That’s weak, I was looking for a good debate

Nope....... a guy who is a felon for embezzling money isn't the same as a guy who uses a gun for rape, robbery or murder.....

Again, here is my plan for actual criminals who use guns for crime....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....

Mass shooters


1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....

What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Why shouldn’t gang members be allowed to walk around with a gun in their pants? Isn’t that their right? And to be clear you are supporting banning violent felons from owning guns right?

Under my plan they would be in jail.....so it becomes a non issue. If democrats let them out they should not be able to own or carry a gun.....and should be arrested and jailed if they do....

Thanks for clearing that up. Where does the constitution allow for released felons to be stripped of their rights to bare arms? Wouldn’t that be infringement?

5th Amendment​

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. ​

In other words, you can be deprived of your rights with due process of law.

Kudos! You actually made a substantive non trolling argument... well done! Keep it up