Delusions of Israelis and Palestinians Are Destroying the Peace Process

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Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.
 
Never happened, the Arab league was never condemned by the UN for "aggression",

How could they have been you fucking retard when the muslim states prevented such a vote?

the Arab League staged a legitimate intervention under the U.N. charter to restore peace and prevent the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population by the European Zionist colonists.

Oh so now, starting a war instead of further negotiation is "legitimate." So now whenever the US or someone else wants to invade another country, they can just claim they were "restoring order."

I can see why stupid people like you spend all day writing such idiocies from their mother's basement because they cannot get a job.
 
Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.

Actually...I'm beginning to think *you* are the one divorced from reality. Cubans are Cuban citizens. Syrians are Syrian citizens. There is a place to send them to where they hold citizenship.
 
Now to get the rest of old Challenged stuff over here on the delusions thread. Right where it belongs.

Some of this stuff is priceless.

Quote

Never happened, the Arab league was never condemned by the UN for "aggression", the Arab League staged a legitimate intervention under the U.N. charter to restore peace and prevent the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population by the European Zionist colonists.

End Quote

Now I ask you, why would the about 60 nation muslim voting block out of 180 or so nations, fully 1/3, the largest voting block in the UN condemn a group of its own ?

Or when did the UN approve the Arab League declaration of war ?

And what ethnic cleansing ? had the Israeli's alluded to any such intentions ?

The guys just off his rocker completely. Or shall we say "delusional'

Still on the peyote I see. Seems our Bison "bovine excreter" here signally failed basic history 101.

In 1948 there were only 58 member states, of whom only 9 were "Muslim". United Nations member States - Growth in United Nations membership, 1945-present (Now I ask you, if the Muslim "voting bloc" was so powerful would it ever have allowed partition of Palestine in the first place?)

The Arab league did not declare a state of war Arab League Declarationon the Invasion of Palestine (May 1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

See: http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/P/Pa/Pappe_Ilan_-_The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine.pdf






Explain this then rat boy


The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, was less diplomatic and far more candid. With no patience for polite or veiled language, on the same day Israel declared its independence on May 14 1948, at a Cairo press conference reported the next day in The New York Times,

"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." The League of Arab States continued to oppose peace after Israel's 1948 War of Independence:

  • In July 15 1948, the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 54 calling on Arab aggression to stop:
"Taking into consideration that the Provisional Government of Israel has indicated its acceptance in principle of a prolongation of the truce in Palestine; that the States members of the Arab League have rejected successive appeals of the United Nations Mediator, and of the Security Council in its resolution 53 (1948) of 7 July 1948, for the prolongation of the truce in Palestine; and that there has consequently developed a renewal of hostilities in Palestine."[10]

  • In October 1949, the Arab League declared that negotiation with Israel by any Arab state would be in violation of Article 18 of the Arab League.[11]
  • In April 1950, it called for severance of relations with any Arab state which engaged in relations or contacts with Israel and prohibited Member states from negotiating unilateral peace with Israel.[12]
  • In March 1979, it suspended Egypt's membership in the League (retroactively) from the date of its signing a peace treaty with Israel.[13]
More recently, in the Beirut Declaration of March 27-28, 2002, adopted at the height of Palestinian suicide attacks in Israel, the Arab League declared:

"We, the kings, presidents, and emirs of the Arab states meeting in the Council of the Arab League Summit in Beirut, capital of Lebanon ... have conducted a thorough assessment of the developments and challenges ... relating to the Arab region and, more specifically, to the occupied Palestinian territory. With great pride, we followed the Palestinian people's intifada and valiant resistance. ... We address a greeting of pride and honour to the Palestinian people's steadfastness and valiant intifada against the Israeli occupation and its destructive war machine. We greet with honour and pride the valiant martyrs of the intifada."[14]

The Arab League, which has systematically opposed and blocked peace efforts for nearly 67 years, and is in a declared state-of-war with Israel, is now deemed by the U.S. States Department an organization that can contribute to peace in the Middle East.




The Arab League at War with Israel
 
Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.

Actually...I'm beginning to think *you* are the one divorced from reality. Cubans are Cuban citizens. Syrians are Syrian citizens. There is a place to send them to where they hold citizenship.





And many British muslims are also Pakistani muslims and Palestinian muslims, holding papers for all 3 nations. This so they can go and fight British troops in places like Syria.
 
Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.

Actually...I'm beginning to think *you* are the one divorced from reality. Cubans are Cuban citizens. Syrians are Syrian citizens. There is a place to send them to where they hold citizenship.





And many British muslims are also Pakistani muslims and Palestinian muslims, holding papers for all 3 nations. This so they can go and fight British troops in places like Syria.

Are you saying they are citizens of other countries? If so - then yes, they can be deported. However, that is not what Rhodes was saying.
 
Now to get the rest of old Challenged stuff over here on the delusions thread. Right where it belongs.

Some of this stuff is priceless.

Quote

Never happened, the Arab league was never condemned by the UN for "aggression", the Arab League staged a legitimate intervention under the U.N. charter to restore peace and prevent the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population by the European Zionist colonists.

End Quote

Now I ask you, why would the about 60 nation muslim voting block out of 180 or so nations, fully 1/3, the largest voting block in the UN condemn a group of its own ?

Or when did the UN approve the Arab League declaration of war ?

And what ethnic cleansing ? had the Israeli's alluded to any such intentions ?

The guys just off his rocker completely. Or shall we say "delusional'

Still on the peyote I see. Seems our Bison "bovine excreter" here signally failed basic history 101.

In 1948 there were only 58 member states, of whom only 9 were "Muslim". United Nations member States - Growth in United Nations membership, 1945-present (Now I ask you, if the Muslim "voting bloc" was so powerful would it ever have allowed partition of Palestine in the first place?)

The Arab league did not declare a state of war Arab League Declarationon the Invasion of Palestine (May 1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

See: http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/P/Pa/Pappe_Ilan_-_The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine.pdf

Yikes, looks like someone is stuck in 1948, ( delusions again ? ) you did say "never" which would indicate something beyond a single date.

But it does look like you've been cherrypicking from that bastion of accuracy Wiki

Quote

Of the 58 members of the United Nations at that time, the resolution was adopted by a majority of 35 countries, with 15 voting against and 8 abstaining. Significantly, all six Arab League countries then represented at the UN – Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen, all of which were parties to the conflict in question – voted against the resolution. The other significant group which voted against comprised the Communist bloc member countries: Byelorrusian SSR, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Ukrainian SSR, USSR, Yugoslavia,[3] all of which had already recognised Israel as a de jure state. Israel was not a member of the United Nations at the time, and objected to many of the resolution's articles. The Palestinians were not directly consulted.

End Quote

Oh and a declaration of Invasion and a declaration of war are the same thing.

both result in the condition of war, or a fulfillment of the pragmatic theory. ;--) ( start digging Spiffy )

On the one hand we have the Hague which defines what types of documents constitute a declaration of war. You might want to do a little reading there to, I'd start with H3 but feel free ;--)

on the other we have the Geneva Conventions which state what constitutes a condition of war.

And since you seem so devoted to wikipedia lets just see what they have to say about what constitutes a declaration of war.

Quote

In modern public international law, a declaration of war entails the recognition between countries of a state of hostilities between these countries, and such declaration has acted to regulate the conduct between the military engagements between the forces of the respective countries. The primary multilateral treaties governing such declarations are the Hague Conventions.

End Quote

The Arab Nations "declaration of invasion" is a legal declaration that a state of war exists between Israel and the Arab League.

anigif_enhanced-22072-1397755391-1.gif
You didn't read the link.

Arab League Declarationon the Invasion of Palestine (May 1948) | Jewish Virtual Library
 
Never happened, the Arab league was never condemned by the UN for "aggression",

How could they have been you fucking retard when the muslim states prevented such a vote?

the Arab League staged a legitimate intervention under the U.N. charter to restore peace and prevent the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population by the European Zionist colonists.

Oh so now, starting a war instead of further negotiation is "legitimate." So now whenever the US or someone else wants to invade another country, they can just claim they were "restoring order."

I can see why stupid people like you spend all day writing such idiocies from their mother's basement because they cannot get a job.

hey at least he's not claiming to be an electrical engineer LOL

I also caught that reference to an aggressive legitimate war to restore order. Pretty funny. Only someone who supports Arab Muslim terrorism would ever suggest such a thing.

Delusional pretty well covers it
 
An interesting analysis of the current state of non-peace. It's disturbing, because in order to overcome the status quo, deep changes in national psyche need to be looked at on both sides. It offers a very different analysis than what I usually see.

Delusions of Israelis and Palestinians Are Destroying the Peace Process

......There are certain psychological concepts that are relevant to understanding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; the concept of illusion is an essential one. In The Future of an Illusion, Freud offers the following definition: “…we call a belief an illusion when a wish-fulfillment is a prominent factor in its motivation, and in doing so we disregard its relations to reality, just as the illusion itself sets no store by verification.”


What is characteristic of illusions is that: 1) they are derived from deep human wishes, and 2) the belief is held (or would be held) in the absence of any compelling evidence, or good rational grounds, on its behalf.


It is impossible to deny that both Israelis and Palestinians are in the grip of very powerful illusions that only serve to prolong the conflict and prevent any mutual understanding. In particular, the belief shared by many Israelis that they have a biblical right to the land (including Judea and Samaria) and that God gave it to the Jews in perpetuity is undoubtedly an illusion of yesterday.


This belief is not affirmed because there is real evidence that God deemed it to be (although two Jewish kingdoms did exist — the first in the tenth century BCE and the second beginning in 539 BCE — on the same land), but because it satisfies a deep-seated psychological need for a God-given Jewish homeland.


The belief that by expanding the settlements Israel will augment its national security and maintain its hold on the entire land is an illusion of tomorrow, which generally ignores the presence of Muslims in the same land for more than 1,300 years.


It is important to note how these illusions sustain and reinforce one another, and constitute a psychological barrier that is much more impervious to critical reflection. Israel’s illusions have served to create the logic for occupation.


The Palestinians, for their part, are not without their own illusions. They also believe that God has reserved the land for them, and appeal to the fact that they had inhabited the land for centuries. From their perspective, the presence of the al-Aqsa Mosque, which was built in 705 AD in Jerusalem, attests to their historical and religious affinity to the Holy City.


They also cling to the idea that they will someday return to the land of their forbears, as they have and continue to insist on the right of return of the Palestinian refugees, even though this has become a virtual impossibility.


The Palestinians hold fast to their illusions of yesterday and tomorrow just as blindly and desperately as the Israelis, which leads to resistance to and fear of change. As such, unless both sides change course and accept each other’s affinity to the same land, specifically because it is religiously-based, the situation is bound to lead to a catastrophe.


This has contributed to making the Israeli-Palestinian conflict both chronic and intractable, as the various illusions are continuously and consciously nurtured by daily hostile and often violent encounters between the two sides.


In seeking to bridge concepts that could link between the domains of psychology and politics in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it could be proposed that a collective mutual resistance to change (both conscious and deliberate, and inner unconscious) protects a vulnerable identity.


Compared, for example, to the stable and mature political identities of the American, British, and French nations, the political identities of both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples are, in a way, in their adolescence.


Identities in this setting are more vulnerable, and the protagonists are naturally more defensive and resistant to change. By its very nature, the players must find it difficult (if not impossible) to articulate this publicly, as to do so is to admit to this vulnerability.


The concept of psychological resistance to change may well affect the political setting in general and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular; it is closely connected to perceptions at many levels and provides protection for vulnerable identity formation.


It is this mindset, strengthened by historical experiences, which transcends the more than seven decades since the Israeli-Palestinian conflict began. Individuals and groups, Israelis and Palestinians alike, have and continue to interpret the nature of the discord between them as “you versus me” in a prejudiced and selective way.


In turn, this has stifled any new information and enabled the continuing resistance to change, which could shed new light on the nature and substance of the conflict and help advance the peace process.


The concept of unconscious resistance to change in this setting links well to the view of perceptions driving the polarization in the conflict. Historical experience, which formulates perceptions, serves among other things to enhance the sense of identity of “who we really are,” a formative collective assumption that sits at the bedrock of both key players and drives functional and dysfunctional behavior.


In principle, such a mindset prevents either side from entertaining new ideas that might lead to compromises for a peaceful solution. The paradox here is that majorities on both sides do want and seek peace, knowing full well that this would require significant concessions, but are unable to reconcile the required concessions with imbedded perceptions that have precluded these compromises as a result of resistance to and fear of change.


Therefore, any framework for peace must include provisions that would dramatically increase the odds in favor of a solution. First, both sides need to commit to reaching an agreement based on a two-state solution out of the conviction that change, which translates to coexistence, is inevitable. Therefore, they ought to adjust to each other’s requirements, which of necessity requires them to make significant concessions.


Second, to facilitate that, they must undertake reconciliatory people-to-people social, economic, cultural, and security interactions to mitigate their resistance to change, which must begin, at a minimum, one year before the negotiations commence to create the psychological and political atmosphere to cultivate the trust necessary for substantive and successful peace negotiations...


The resumption of peace talks will go nowhere unless Israelis and Palestinians change their prejudiced perception and resistance to and fear of change, and finally come to the realization that their fate is intertwined and neither can live in peace and security without the other.
The problem with this is that the Palestinians are the only ones who would be making concessions.

How would you sell that to the Palestinians?
 
Being the losers in a war means the Arab Muslims don't need to be sold. They get told.
 
Last edited:
Being the losers in a war means they don't need to be sold. They get told.
Israeli propaganda.

The Palestinians never lost a war to Israel.
There has never been a war for the Arab-Moslem terrorists occupying the disputed territories to lose. They've just suffered humiliating defeats with the various skirmishes they have instigated.
 
Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.

Actually...I'm beginning to think *you* are the one divorced from reality. Cubans are Cuban citizens. Syrians are Syrian citizens. There is a place to send them to where they hold citizenship.





And many British muslims are also Pakistani muslims and Palestinian muslims, holding papers for all 3 nations. This so they can go and fight British troops in places like Syria.

Are you saying they are citizens of other countries? If so - then yes, they can be deported. However, that is not what Rhodes was saying.

Israel isn't required to determine the citizenship of a hostile force under its control. Its only obligation is to repatriate them ASAP. Israel is also not responsible for where they go or where they end up
 
Second, regardless of what the articles say - you can not take a nonl-citizen to the border of another sovereign nation, and let them go - that nation has no requirement to accept a non-citizen and in fact can close it's borders if it wishes.

More lies, go see what the Costa Ricans are doing with the cubans trying to get into the US, or the syrian arabs as they are moved across europe.

You are among the LAST people who should be discussing what is reality.

Actually...I'm beginning to think *you* are the one divorced from reality. Cubans are Cuban citizens. Syrians are Syrian citizens. There is a place to send them to where they hold citizenship.





And many British muslims are also Pakistani muslims and Palestinian muslims, holding papers for all 3 nations. This so they can go and fight British troops in places like Syria.

Are you saying they are citizens of other countries? If so - then yes, they can be deported. However, that is not what Rhodes was saying.

Israel isn't required to determine the citizenship of a hostile force under its control. Its only obligation is to repatriate them ASAP. Israel is also not responsible for where they go or where they end up
That isn't true.

Start @ 41:20

 
Way off topic

Although I could refer to it as just another delusion, there is no right of return for enemy combatants who forfeit their protected persons status under the Geneva Conventions.

Nor is what right of return there is indefinite. I believe the exact wording is "as soon as is practicable" and it may never be practicable. Ergo there is no actual right of return as this right is not specified to transfer to descendants.
 
Another delusion, there is no right of return for enemy combatants who forfeit their protected persons status under the Geneva Conventions.

Nor is what right of return there is indefinite. I believe the exact wording is "as soon as is practicable" and it may never be practicable. Ergo there is no actual right of return as this right is not specified to transfer to descendants.

When there is an invasion, the inhabitants that sought refuge from the fighting in the invaded territory have a right to return once the fighting stops. The Jews came from Europe and invaded Palestine.
 
Being the losers in a war means they don't need to be sold. They get told.
Israeli propaganda.

The Palestinians never lost a war to Israel.

Palestinians never had a nation to LOSE in a war either. Unfortunately for them -- their LEASE holders lost THEIR war against Israel.. What part of that do you still not understand????

This must be one of those "delusions destroying the peace process" that this thread is about. There's a LOT of delusions --- on both sides interfering with visions of what could be with a peaceful solutions..
 
Another delusion, there is no right of return for enemy combatants who forfeit their protected persons status under the Geneva Conventions.

Nor is what right of return there is indefinite. I believe the exact wording is "as soon as is practicable" and it may never be practicable. Ergo there is no actual right of return as this right is not specified to transfer to descendants.

When there is an invasion, the inhabitants that sought refuge from the fighting in the invaded territory have a right to return once the fighting stops. The Jews came from Europe and invaded Palestine.
That's nothing more than your usual cut and paste nonsense, debunked many times before.
 
Another delusion, there is no right of return for enemy combatants who forfeit their protected persons status under the Geneva Conventions.

Nor is what right of return there is indefinite. I believe the exact wording is "as soon as is practicable" and it may never be practicable. Ergo there is no actual right of return as this right is not specified to transfer to descendants.

When there is an invasion, the inhabitants that sought refuge from the fighting in the invaded territory have a right to return once the fighting stops. The Jews came from Europe and invaded Palestine.
That's nothing more than your usual cut and paste nonsense, debunked many times before.

He's about as delusional as it gets around here
 
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