Delusions of Israelis and Palestinians Are Destroying the Peace Process

[rhodescholar]

Good idea.

When a weak piece of shit poster has no argument to defend themselves, its deflection time with accusations of "you're using hasbara!" Come up with something intelligent for a change like some facts, dipshit.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, and the Jews who lived there became Palestinian citizens like everyone else.

The Jews from Europe were a different group of people.

No different than the Arabs that immigrated from surrounding countries

There was a big difference. This is from the US but the concept is universal.

IMMIGRANT
:
In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant​

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

 

[Phoenall]

No different than the Arabs that immigrated from surrounding countries

There was a big difference. This is from the US but the concept is universal.

IMMIGRANT
:
In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant​

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

The treaty of Sevres that was ratified at the treaty of Lausanne that led to the passing of sovereignty of the Ottoman empire lands to the LoN.

Didn't you read the links I have given you over the last few years, many repeated ad nauseum because you don't read them when given.

 

[Boston1]

No different than the Arabs that immigrated from surrounding countries

There was a big difference. This is from the US but the concept is universal.

IMMIGRANT
:
In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant​

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

LMAO

Seriously ?

You've been provided the references a hundred times.

Might be time to do some of your own homework from now on.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was a big difference. This is from the US but the concept is universal.

IMMIGRANT
:
In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant​

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

LMAO

Seriously ?

You've been provided the references a hundred times.

Might be time to do some of your own homework from now on.

I've seen links that do not say what you say.

 

[Phoenall]

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

LMAO

Seriously ?

You've been provided the references a hundred times.

Might be time to do some of your own homework from now on.

I've seen links that do not say what you say.

NO what you mean is you don't read the links because they say what you don't want to see

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was a big difference. This is from the US but the concept is universal.

IMMIGRANT
:
In popular usage, an "immigrant" is generally understood to be a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. Under this definition, therefore, an "immigrant" is an alien admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident. The emphasis in this definition is upon the presumptions that (1) the immigrant followed U.S. laws and procedures in establishing residence in our country; (2) he or she wishes to reside here permanently; and (3) he or she swears allegiance to our country or at least solemnly affirms that he/she will observe and respect our laws and our Constitution.

ALIEN: By contrast, an "alien" is generally understood to be a foreigner -- a person who comes from a foreign country -- who does not owe allegiance to our country.

Definitions: Alien, Immigrant, Illegal Alien, Undocumented Immigrant​

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

The treaty of Sevres that was ratified at the treaty of Lausanne that led to the passing of sovereignty of the Ottoman empire lands to the LoN.

Didn't you read the links I have given you over the last few years, many repeated ad nauseum because you don't read them when given.

The LoN did not claim sovereignty. They held the land in trust on behalf of the inhabitants.

In a broader international legal context, the “Nationality law... showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship”.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

 

[Challenger]

Indeed, and the Jews who lived there became Palestinian citizens like everyone else.

The Jews from Europe were a different group of people.

No different than the Arabs that immigrated from surrounding countries

Define Arabs. Ethnic Arabians or indigenous locals who had adopted Arabic language and culture over the centuries?

Define indigenous Arabs. When are invading muhammedans defined as indigenous 'Pal'istanians?

Indigenous Arabs are native to the Arabian peninsula. Not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslim; may cultures and ethnicities adopted Arabic language and culture, including those indigenous to Palestine and the greater Levant region; Jewish Judeans included, get over it.

Once again your hasbara is exposed for the fraud it is.

One simple glance at any population chart of the time blows the doors off your hasbara nonsense about any native Arab Muslims in Israel.

Except for the fact that it's your Hasbara nonsense, and the stuff you like to make up.

 

[Challenger]

I love the drivel from +972 which in case nobody knows is one of those foreign funded NGOs that just loves to bash Israel.

Antisemitic is a term often used in reference to the rags continued accusation of apartheid in Israel.

Also the definition you offered was just a tad off.

Lets see what else that cherrypicked article you presented says

Quote

The Hebrew meaning of the word Hasbara (הסברה) is “explanation”

End Quote

So really based on your own "hasbara" the term could just as easily define the utter nonsense the terrorist supporters around here let fly as they try and "hasbara" there racist and bigoted views. ;--)

Well it WAS written by an Israeli, Noam Sheizaf, who better to know?

"The Hebrew meaning of the word Hasbara (הסברה) is “explanation” (the term “propaganda” has a different word in Hebrew – תעמולה). I believe that the popular use of this term also reflects a widespread public notion that a better effort of explaining Israel’s actions to the world will generate better understandings of Israel’s policies, and more international support. A less common use of the verb “to explain” (להסביר), which has to do with welcoming someone, was used in the past by the Tourism Ministry in campaigns urging Israelis to show a hospitable approach to tourists.

Hasbara represents only one side of propaganda, as it is mostly aimed at foreign audience. The use of the Hebrew term Hasbara in a critical context, rather than “propaganda” or “public diplomacy” (the title of the Wikipedia entry on the issue), is necessary, because Hasbara efforts are wider and their goals much more ambitious than any similar activities taken by all democracies and most non-democracies. Hasbara targets political elites, opinion makers and the public simultaneously; it includes traditional advocacy efforts as well as more general appeals made through mass media, and it is carried out by government agencies, non-governmental organizations, lobbying groups, private citizens, students, journalists and bloggers." (and Bison1... he obviously forgot that bit )

 

[Phoenall]

How is there a big difference? There was Arab immigration into Palestine. There was Jewish immigration into Palestine. all immigrants.

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

The treaty of Sevres that was ratified at the treaty of Lausanne that led to the passing of sovereignty of the Ottoman empire lands to the LoN.

Didn't you read the links I have given you over the last few years, many repeated ad nauseum because you don't read them when given.

The LoN did not claim sovereignty. They held the land in trust on behalf of the inhabitants.

In a broader international legal context, the “Nationality law... showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship”.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

SAYS WHO as the treaty of Sevres and the treaty of Lausanne both state that the LoN was sovereign until such time as the nations were able to stand on their own. They appointed mandatories to run the infrastructure of the nations, the three in the M.E being France, Britain and Russia.

Once again you use the false report that does not link to any treaty that says those words. If it did then who signed for the nation od Palestine, what treaty granted Palestine statehood without going through the mandate system and what was the outcome in 1924 when the land was portioned into Jewish and arab palestines ?

The nail in the coffin which nation issued the Palestinian passports from 1925 when the nationality law was enacted till 1948 when the mandatory passed into UN hands ?

 

[Phoenall]

No different than the Arabs that immigrated from surrounding countries

Define Arabs. Ethnic Arabians or indigenous locals who had adopted Arabic language and culture over the centuries?

Define indigenous Arabs. When are invading muhammedans defined as indigenous 'Pal'istanians?

Indigenous Arabs are native to the Arabian peninsula. Not all Muslims are Arabs and not all Arabs are Muslim; may cultures and ethnicities adopted Arabic language and culture, including those indigenous to Palestine and the greater Levant region; Jewish Judeans included, get over it.

Once again your hasbara is exposed for the fraud it is.

One simple glance at any population chart of the time blows the doors off your hasbara nonsense about any native Arab Muslims in Israel.

Except for the fact that it's your Hasbara nonsense, and the stuff you like to make up.

Once again rat boy cant reply to the facts so uses disinformation to deflect away from the truth.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You didn't read my post. These so called Jewish immigrants did not match the definition of immigrants. They did, however, match the description of aliens or foreigners.

An immigrant moves to a country to be a part of that society. They want to be a member of the existing population.

The Zionists had no intention of being a part of Palestine. The Zionists imported settlers by the boatload to implement their colonial project. Theses settlers lived in colonies separate from anything and everything Palestinian. They were to be place holders on any land obtained by hook or by crook. They were to work and pay taxes. They would be conscripts in the military that would be necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country where the vast majority of people were Muslims and Christians.

To call these settlers immigrants is a great misnomer.

The land had no society as such and was split into Christian, Jewish and muslim enclaves. In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land under the Treaty of Sevres and again under the treaty of Lausanne that ratified the terms of the treaty of Sevres. The Jews were invited to settle the land by the sovereign rulers, while the muslims were invited to move across an invisible line in the sand to their new homes. All a matter of recorded history

In 1917 the muslims lost any claims to the land...​

Passage and link please.

The treaty of Sevres that was ratified at the treaty of Lausanne that led to the passing of sovereignty of the Ottoman empire lands to the LoN.

Didn't you read the links I have given you over the last few years, many repeated ad nauseum because you don't read them when given.

The LoN did not claim sovereignty. They held the land in trust on behalf of the inhabitants.

In a broader international legal context, the “Nationality law... showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship”.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

SAYS WHO as the treaty of Sevres and the treaty of Lausanne both state that the LoN was sovereign until such time as the nations were able to stand on their own. They appointed mandatories to run the infrastructure of the nations, the three in the M.E being France, Britain and Russia.

Once again you use the false report that does not link to any treaty that says those words. If it did then who signed for the nation od Palestine, what treaty granted Palestine statehood without going through the mandate system and what was the outcome in 1924 when the land was portioned into Jewish and arab palestines ?

The nail in the coffin which nation issued the Palestinian passports from 1925 when the nationality law was enacted till 1948 when the mandatory passed into UN hands ?

and what was the outcome in 1924 when the land was portioned into Jewish and arab palestines ?​

Passage and link?

 

[montelatici]

The Report of the Mandatory for 1924 did not make any reference to the division of Palestine between Muslims, Christians or Jews. It did discuss the Mandate of Transjordan in section II. as a separate mandate and with a separate population whose numbers were estimated to be 200,000.

"SECTION II.

REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S
GOVERNMENT ON THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER
MANDATE OF TRANSJORDAN.


"....the figure is thought to be in the neighbourhood of 200,000, of whom some 10,000 are Circassians and Chechen; there are about 15,000 Christians and the remainder, in the main, are Moslem Arabs."

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...a87d21f4e57f2d0f052565e8004bace0?OpenDocument

 

[Coyote]

Thread has run it's course and has been completely off topic for a while now. Closed.