Debunking Rape Epidemic Claims

[Coyote]

Such respect for women:

Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain
A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.
By GERARD COUZENS
PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016

GETTY

Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.

A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.

Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.

One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...

Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain

wait this article says that Muslims are in the wrong...... Must be a fake article from a hate site

You'd have a point if anyone was saying it never occurred, but they aren't. There are always violent crimes, crimes against women, gang activity and assaults. The question is - is it the "rape epidemic" that is being claimed? Sure you can find dozens of individual articles on individual events. I can pull up many articles of crimes and assaults where the perpetrators weren't "arabic looking men". Crime does occur. But is it occuring out of proportion to prior trends?

 

[Coyote]

Rape has been a weapon of war since time immemorial. Some fools seem to think it started with Islam. They call it "rape jihad", a recently coined term that did not exist a few decades ago. Perhaps these fools should check out the Old Testement, and see what it has to say about rape and war. Is that "rape jihad" too?

Rape jihad didn't exist when they did it to the Byzantines?

Didn't become prominent out in the open in Egypt when The Muslim brotherhood took over. (Thanks Obama)

Rape jihad is just shaming women to the point they don't want to have non Muslim children or if they are lucky they pregnate the victims with a Muslim kid.

That occurs in a number of conservative religious groups - they don't want daughters marrying outside the faith or having children outside the faith.

Yes but how many religions promote rape to hinder outsiders?

None.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well. Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law. Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman. She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders. An actual real life woman here.....

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them? Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women. They are equals in society....

This was interesting...


..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

You know what we didnt see in there....... Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women. They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home. Not a religion problem. Same as we have here.....

The other thing we didn't see is how many of the perpetrators are ethnic Chechens?

I'm just sayin....

 

[Mindful]

Such respect for women:

Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain
A GANG of French Muslims have been probed by police after a group of British women holidaymakers were assaulted at a popular Spanish tourist resort.
By GERARD COUZENS
PUBLISHED: 14:20, Thu, Aug 25, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:21, Thu, Aug 25, 2016

GETTY

Puerto Banus is southwest of Marbella, Spain on the Costa del Sol
One woman, a 19-year-old from Farnborough in Hampshire, suffered a broken nose after being punched in the face.

A second woman, a 20-year-old from Essex, was taken to hospital semi-conscious with arm and head injuries.

Witnesses claimed the men, French-born but of Arabic origin, began to attack the young women in the upmarket resort of Puerto Banus near Marbella after one tried to touch up the teenager who suffered the broken nose.

One man was arrested for assault and three friends taken with him to a nearby police station so they could be identified as part of an ongoing investigation. ...

Gang of French Muslims probed by police after group of British women assaulted in Spain

wait this article says that Muslims are in the wrong...... Must be a fake article from a hate site

You'd have a point if anyone was saying it never occurred, but they aren't. There are always violent crimes, crimes against women, gang activity and assaults. The question is - is it the "rape epidemic" that is being claimed? Sure you can find dozens of individual articles on individual events. I can pull up many articles of crimes and assaults where the perpetrators weren't "arabic looking men". Crime does occur. But is it occuring out of proportion to prior trends?

In Germany, yes.

Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.

 

[Uncensored2008]

None.

Now that's a lie. Muhammad himself approved of rape and used it as reward for his thugs.

You ignorantly posted on it yesterday.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[


In Germany, yes.

Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.

Ain't multiculturalism grand?

 

[Tilly]

[


Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?

Not that I expect an honest answer from you

Which hate site did he use? DailyKOS? ThinkProgress? Alternet? Democratic Underground? MoveOn?

All that hatred has a common source...

It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.

 

[Mindful]

[


In Germany, yes.

Where it used to be one of the safest places to walk around. Even as a woman, and late at night.

Ain't multiculturalism grand?

The only country that's gone some way to achieving that aim is Great Britain.

Apart from the US.

 

[Uncensored2008]

]
It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.

I know.

I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.

 

[Tilly]

]
It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.

I know.

I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.

I agree. Its hypocrisy knows no bounds. She doesn't get hounded for it though. I really think she should stop with the hounding and spamming the thread with this crap. I do wish she could get a grip.

 

[Coyote]

Oh please, you know damn well you guys don't give a damn about rape, or other abusive crimes against women and girls such as child marriages UNLESS Muslims are involved

Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .

Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc. Feel free to join in. Most didn't get much attention.

Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
Child Marriages
Rape
Worst Places for Women
For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten

I will check these as I go. But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children. I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.

My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel. But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.

If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens. I would block the Middle East and Central America. One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country. Given most are from Central America. A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals. After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.

Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.

I love the Australian point system for immigration. If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.

In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...

Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence

Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.


For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...

...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

The Role of Culture and Gender Roles


Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and 
its Optional Protocol.


On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."


Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public".​

I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well. Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law. Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman. She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders. An actual real life woman here.....

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them? Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women. They are equals in society....

This was interesting...


..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

You know what we didnt see in there....... Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women. They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home. Not a religion problem. Same as we have here.....

Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.

Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse. The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse. Where do you suppose that status comes from? It comes from the church. The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.

 

[Coyote]

[


Was it lack of self worth that caused you to select a discredited poll from a hate site over the reputable sources you normally use or is it simply that your pathological hatred of all Muslims, even Americans, has created a total breakdown in your integrity and honesty?

Not that I expect an honest answer from you

Which hate site did he use? DailyKOS? ThinkProgress? Alternet? Democratic Underground? MoveOn?

All that hatred has a common source...

It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.

I suggest you utilize your reading skills and look at the other links I provided which debunked the poll.


So, here's a question for you (if you have the guts to answer it). Pew is a well respected source, respected by both sides of the partisan divide as being non-partisan. It is not Cair/Saudi etc. Your boyfriend has used it multiple times to provide information on Muslim views around the world. Pew also has information on the views of American Muslims. Yet he chose to use a discredited poll from a hate site instead. A poll that portrayed American Muslims extremely badly. Why is Pew "good enough" for international Muslim views but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim views?

Why? And, why would you support that Tilly?

 

[StLucieBengal]

Coyote what is your fascination with Islam and these migrants?

It seems you desperately want to make every known excuse in the book for them.

One. I'm not making excuses. Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior. I want the truth. What is the truth? What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?

Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.

My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact. Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated. We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we? How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated? Not with respect. But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.

I'll give an example. Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll? Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries. Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights. So did he use Pew in this thread? No. He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something. This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights. So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion? When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?

My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations. It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high. We tend to forget they are human beings.

1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims. This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.

Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts. My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time. The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances. The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.

2. On broad stroking a group of people.... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.

Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children. Not all rape away in praise to Allah. But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.

This is my biggest issue with Islam. Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society. Which is why I would shut the borders to them. Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings . My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church. She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this .... How is this any different than a Muslim?

There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable. Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith. For example - look at FGM. It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike. Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of. There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.

Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

What do American Muslims believe?

Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.


Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.


Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.


When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007.​

Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead

​

3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion. That is between you and them. I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.

4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?

This type of belief is just not feasible in our society. If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly.... But we just can afford adding people from the 3rd world. Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.

No, I would not be willing to take on any people. I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example. I'm not "open borders". I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits. I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long. Most want to work.

The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.

And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west. Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children? Was he courageous?

I don't think it is that black and white. Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data. There is also considerable differences in the different groups. For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.

That number includes all migrants. However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.

I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first. The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future. The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS. I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.

I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight. My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes? Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous. It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians. It's not a new argument. In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust. Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children. So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them. And of course, the parents died. In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men. That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.

As for being human beings.... If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children.... Just how human are they? Sounds more like how animals believe....

Just how human are they? Very.

You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality. I disagree with that assumption.

All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men. Migrants are African and Arab.

What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.

Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats. Where there is smoke there is fire. Unless you think these women are making stuff up?

Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising. Stats are kept to make police efforts look better. There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time. Same as Finland.

Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.

I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by. It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations. Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated. If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it. Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.

I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made. But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates. When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions. There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population: outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.

I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong. A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children. Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares. There was a fairly new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested. The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court. The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined. The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool. So, were these kids being molested? In some cases, I'm sure they were. In others, not. But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.

That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad". And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.

Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women. Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.

now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad". I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance. I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.

Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible? Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.

 

[Coyote]

]
It 'debunked' Dogmaphobes poll by using the Georgetown / Cair / Saudi bought and paid for radical Islamist apologists such as Esposito. Lol.

I know.

I'm just driving home the fact that Coyote uses hate sites all the time. A good chunk of the shit she posts comes from Soros funded hate sites.

Pew is a Soros funded hate site?

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

Pew is a Soros funded hate site?

I don't recall saying that, got a link?

 

[StLucieBengal]

Feel free to test than theory and post a thread about a story of a pedo rapist and see what happens .

Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc. Feel free to join in. Most didn't get much attention.

Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
Child Marriages
Rape
Worst Places for Women
For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten

I will check these as I go. But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children. I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.

My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel. But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.

If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens. I would block the Middle East and Central America. One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country. Given most are from Central America. A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals. After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.

Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.

I love the Australian point system for immigration. If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.

In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...

Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence

Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.


For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...

...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

The Role of Culture and Gender Roles


Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and 
its Optional Protocol.


On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."


Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public".​

I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well. Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law. Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman. She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders. An actual real life woman here.....

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them? Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women. They are equals in society....

This was interesting...


..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

You know what we didnt see in there....... Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women. They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home. Not a religion problem. Same as we have here.....

Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.

Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse. The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse. Where do you suppose that status comes from? It comes from the church. The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.

actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic. There is zero oppression.

Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed? I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.

Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating? No.

A woman wanting to be a mother is never oppressive. It's a beautiful thing that gets dismissed too easily in our society today. We need more of this belief instead of the feminism that has pushed girls away from motherhood.

If Muslims brought this to the table without all the violence, rape, and oppression then it would be a welcome site.

This is what the Former soviet states culture brings. Those girls work tiressly in their job and at home.

 

[Coyote]

One. I'm not making excuses. Name one excuse I've given for rape, or any other violent behavior. I want the truth. What is the truth? What are the facts when you strip emotional hype and fear?

Fear drives us to unspeakable things to our fellow people.

My fascination is less with Islam then it is with scapegoating and broadbrushing an entire group of people and right now, it's acceptable to scapegoat Muslims broadly and completely, with out regard to whether it's conspiracy theory, the actions of a few, or hype over fact. Seems to be me any right thinking person should be concerned when a group gets scapegoated. We don't tolerate it when it's Jews or Blacks do we? How do our resident racists/anti-semites get treated? Not with respect. But when it comes to Muslims, it's the broad brush and if you question it, ask for facts, you are labeled.

I'll give an example. Why do I press Dogma on the issue of a poll? Because, in a thread on American Muslims, he wanted to show that American Muslims are just as violent, extremist, intolerant, etc as he views Muslims in other countries. Previously he had used Pew, a well respected non-partisan source for views of Muslims around the world towards Sharia, apostacy, homosexuality and women's rights. So did he use Pew in this thread? No. He chose a poll that who's methodology is roundly criticized and debunked, from a site widely considered way out there by many, and a hate site, who's results purported to show something like over 50% suppported religous violence and Sharia as law of the land, or something. This completely contradicted Pew, which showed American Muslims are largely the same as other demographic groups in America in their opinions towards seperation of religion and state, violence, homosexuality, and women's rights. So, Pew is "good enough" for worldwide opinion but suddenly not "good enough" for American Muslim opinion? When a person deliberately chooses to use something from a disreputable site over something from a reputable site - I think it's reasonable to ask "why" and what are the motivations?

My "fascination" with migrants and refugees is because they are PEOPLE, living, breathing people who have gone through horrendous experiences in an attempt to escape what are often desperate situations. It takes a particular desperation and courage to do that, and the death toll in those sea voyages and at the hands of traffickers is very high. We tend to forget they are human beings.

1. This entire thread is about a conspiracy against Muslims. This is an excuse to the media reports of them rapefugees.

Conspiracy theories aren't backed by data or facts. My thread's OP is backed by crime statistics over a period of time. The same sort of crime statistics, I might add, that are perfectly acceptable under other circumstances. The fact that you refer to refugees/migrants as whole as "rapefugees" pretty much supports my position.

2. On broad stroking a group of people.... If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck... It's a duck.

Muslims worldwide share the belief in oppression of women and children. Not all rape away in praise to Allah. But they do support wearing oppressive garmets.

This is my biggest issue with Islam. Their constant oppression, which has no place in western society. Which is why I would shut the borders to them. Until they had a reformation to remove these beliefs and teachings . My wife is Russian orthodox and wears a scarf in church but only wears it in church. She doesn't wear it everywhere .... She still believes in God and isn't any less of an orthodox because of this .... How is this any different than a Muslim?

There I disagree with you, because it assumes two things - that all Muslims adhere to the most conservative aspects of Islam, that they all believe in oppressing women, and that Islam is unchangeable. Attitudes towards women vary according to the culture of the people who practice that faith. For example - look at FGM. It's most prevalent in N. Africa, and in the countries where it is still practiced, it is done by Christian, Animaist and Muslims alike. Yet, in other Muslim majority countries it is unheard of. There is nothing in Islam itself that demands it - it's a cultural legacy.

Opinions of Muslims towards the role of women around the world may lag behind those of western countries, but within Western countries, like the US, Muslim opinions are in line with that of other demographic groups.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

What do American Muslims believe?

Our 2011 survey of Muslim Americans found that roughly half of U.S. Muslims (48%) say their own religious leaders have not done enough to speak out against Islamic extremists.


Living in a religiously pluralistic society, Muslim Americans are more likely than Muslims in many other nations to have many non-Muslim friends. Only about half (48%) of U.S. Muslims say all or most of their close friends are also Muslims, compared with a global median of 95% in the 39 countries we surveyed.


Roughly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (69%) say religion is very important in their lives. Virtually all (96%) say they believe in God, nearly two-thirds (65%) report praying at least daily and nearly half (47%) say they attend religious services at least weekly. By all of these traditional measures, Muslims in the U.S. are roughly as religious as U.S. Christians, although they are less religious than Muslims in many other nations.


When it comes to political and social views, Muslims are far more likely to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party (70%) than the Republican Party (11%) and to say they prefer a bigger government providing more services (68%) over a smaller government providing fewer services (21%). As of 2011, U.S. Muslims were somewhat split between those who said homosexuality should be accepted by society (39%) and those who said it should be discouraged (45%), although the group had grown considerably more accepting of homosexuality since a similar survey was conducted in 2007.​

Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups. Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better lead

​

3. How you treat other posters is of no concern to me in this discussion. That is between you and them. I am more concerned with the topic and not a side argument over past threads.

4. So you would be willing to take on any people as long as they can make it here?

This type of belief is just not feasible in our society. If we didn't have any social benefits then possibly.... But we just can afford adding people from the 3rd world. Not to mention the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders.

No, I would not be willing to take on any people. I would not take those convicted of violent crimes for example. I'm not "open borders". I think there should be a good vetting process for people from certain countries and we do need to have limits. I don't think it's because of our social benefits system, since few tend to utilize them, and when they do it's not for long. Most want to work.

The question I have though, is that your argument - " the harm it would do our culture to be flooded with 3rd worlders" - is the same argument that has been applied to many other immigrant groups over successive waves of immigration: Irish, Chinese, East European Jews, Italians etc. and the sky never fell.

And it's not courageous for fighting aged men to flee the fight to go to the west. Were you also cheering on the guy in titanic who got on the lifeboat ahead of women and children? Was he courageous?

I don't think it is that black and white. Many of those "fighting age men" are not - they're just men, and there is no breakdown in ages in the data. There is also considerable differences in the different groups. For migrants and refugees trying to make it to Europe, 53% are men, with no age breakdown.

That number includes all migrants. However, the number of Syrian refugees overall, is dominated by women and children, most of whom are in the camps.

I don't consider it comparable to the life boat situation because I can see why men would go first. The journey is tremendously dangerous, with a high mortality rate and an uncertain future. The family is usually left in relative safety by comparison. While the conditions are bad in the refugee camps, at least they aren't being straffed by barrel bombs or sold as sex slaves by ISIS. I would think it would be the men who would take the risks to try and establish themselves and bring their families over.

I've heard the argument before that these men are cowardly and should stay and fight. My response is this - who are we to judge them when we do not walk in their shoes? Listening to interviews with refugees from the Syrian conflict - what they and their families have been through is horrendous. It's a war with no clear sides and horrible atrocities perpetrated on civilians. It's not a new argument. In fact, the same arguments were made in taking Jewish refugees during the holocaust. Some countries that were willing to take them, would only take the children. So desperate parents sent their children to try and save them. And of course, the parents died. In a conflict like Syria - I wouldn't judge the men. That's different than the migrants though, but even then - they are fleeing different things so you can't just broadly judge it, it's case by case.

As for being human beings.... If they are brought up to believe In oppression and rape of women and children.... Just how human are they? Sounds more like how animals believe....

Just how human are they? Very.

You assume they are all rapists and abusers regardless of background, education, culture and individuality. I disagree with that assumption.

All We have is all these personal accounts of women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by Arab and African men. Migrants are African and Arab.

What's odd is that you take these personal accounts and dismiss them.

Even if you live at the holy altar of government crime stats. Where there is smoke there is fire. Unless you think these women are making stuff up?

Probably should consider that Sweden stopped charting gang rape stats in 2006 because it was rising. Stats are kept to make police efforts look better. There has been a long Muslim problem in Sweden for a time. Same as Finland.

Actually, what we have are personal accounts that actually include few rapes, lots of sexual harrassment and assault claims.

I frankly think that the claim "where there is smoke there is fire" is a bad thing to go by. It can ruin innocent people's lives and reputations. Personal testimonials are iffy as reliable unless they are investigated. If you think Sweden stopped charting crime stats in 2006, then offer some evidence for it. Personally my thought is that a ten year conspiracy of silence and deliberate hiding of crime statistics throughout an entire nation, in a society as open as Sweden's would be difficult to pull off and not very believable.

I'm not outright dismissing claims - I'm saying all claims should be investigated and some have been verified and even arrests made. But I'm skeptical because there is a mass hysteria aspect to it that is not reflected in official crime rates. When you couple that with increased xenophobia, a rise in rightwing nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment overall that is looking for scapegoats, then any reasonable person should be careful of jumping to conclusions. There are two things you can always count on to anger and mobilize a population: outsiders raping their women and sexually abusing children and that occurs in every culture.

I mentioned earlier examples with attitudes of whites towards black men during Jim Crowe, and how innocent men were lynched for just looking at a white woman wrong. A more recent example involves sexual abuse of children. Some years ago...maybe the 80's or 90's?....there was a rash of claims of sexual abuse of children in daycares. There was a fairly new psychiatric method by which they interviewed extremely young children, I'm thinking as young as 1-2, barely verbal, and got them to give information leading them to believe the child had been molested. The method was controversial and untested, there was no physical evidence supporting it, but it was used to charge people and take them to court. The result was massive hysteria, news coverage, etc and parents wanting their children examined. The outcome of it was, few convictions, I think, but also people subsequently found innocent, their lives completely ruined because of the "where there's smoke there's fire" and it led to descrediting of that particular pschological tool. So, were these kids being molested? In some cases, I'm sure they were. In others, not. But the hysteria that just the possibility it could have occurred created a mood that pushed events faster than they could be investigated responsibly, and into the court of public opinion.

That is why I'm skeptical of claims of "mass rapes on white women" and "sexual jihad". And, I also suspect that now someone is going to claim I support abuse of children.

Muslims covet blue eyed and blonde Haired women. Even back to the days of their fights with the Byzantines.

I'd like to see some actual emperical data on whether that is true this day and age.

now this will force a change of topic of we are going down the history of "rape jihad". I know you don't like the phrase but it actually has historical relevance. I am quite sure that not all that use it today understand that history but it doesn't change the facts.

Does it bother you because it sounds violent and terrible? Or do you actually believe that Muslims aren't told to wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe.

Let's look at the facts then. As I pointed, all cultures have used rape as a tool of war, and that is all "rape jihad" really is. The religions that dominate the world today, Islam and Christianity, have both used war as a means of spreading their faith, as did Judaism in it's heyday. Rape is talked about and permitted, within certain rules in both the OT and the Quran, though I think the Quran as a whole as more rules surrounding it then the OT which is more open ended.

Personally I think most Muslims are not told to "wage war with other religions in the race to spread their beliefs around the globe" and they'd probably laugh in your face if you told them that.

 

[Coyote]

Here is a list of threads involving abusive practices to women, rape, child rape, etc. Feel free to join in. Most didn't get much attention.

Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru
Child Marriages
Rape
Worst Places for Women
For India's Widows, A Riot Of Color, An Act Of Liberation
Congolese Doctor Denis Mukwege Receives Sakharov Prize
In Congo, Trapped In Violence And Forgotten

I will check these as I go. But if you are looking for sympathy for anyone who chooses not to live right then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I would shut borders from any place that oppresses women and/or children. I think we need less of these people and more of the people who know how to live right.

My sister in law lives in Belarus and she would be a much better addition to any western country than anyone from the Middle East outside of Israel. But she refuses to enter any country by hook or crook.

If you want to discuss immigration policy then I would take a page from the US immigration 1924 and limit each country to 3% yearly of the foreign born population of legal citizens. I would block the Middle East and Central America. One being at war with Islamic terrorism and Central America for the purpose to allow us to work through all the current illegals in this country. Given most are from Central America. A 10 year hold on immigration from these parts should allow us to catch up and tackle the current illegals. After we round up any of them who have had a felony and deported them immediately.

Immigration should be a slow and steady drip so they can assimilate to our nation and our cultural beliefs since they are moving to be part of our culture.

I love the Australian point system for immigration. If you are not familiar then I encourage you to familiarize yourself.

In light of your feelings about the oppression of women, you might want to rethink whether you want to bring in people from Belarus...

Empowering Belarusian Women to Combat Domestic Violence

Every fourth woman in Belarus has been physically abused by her partner. Just in the last three months, 24 Belarusians have died as a result of domestic violence, a 41% increase from last year.


For decades, impunity for such abuse has persisted in Belarus, a country with a traditional view on a women’s place in society and a troublesome human rights record for both men and women. Domestic violence is finally becoming a public issue and preventative and punitive measures are being taken...

...A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

The Role of Culture and Gender Roles


Most important, the prevalence of domestic violence correlates with the status of women and cultural norms regarding gender roles. On the one hand, the law treats women and men in Belarus equally. The country has acceded to all major relevant international conventions related to the rights of women, including the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Women’s Convention) and 
its Optional Protocol.


On the other hand, discrimination against women on the job market and the so-called “glass ceiling” remain prevalent. Patriarchal notions of a woman's role in the family pervade the social and political sphere. Belarusian women are largely responsible for child upbringing, and President Lukashenka himself views women primarily as “keepers of hearth and home". For example, in 2010 he said, "It is undeniable that the Lord has ordained a woman to be a mother. Regardless of a woman's career, she has to care for her children. I want our women to give birth to at least three children."


Gender stereotypes make violence easier to justify and can prevent women from reporting abuse. Cultural norms play a large role in the way women choose to respond to violence. Women in Belarus, as well as in other post-Soviet states, are expected "not to wash their dirty laundry in public".​

I can only assume this was supposed to be your "gotcha" post showing me that Belarusian women are victims as well. Not sure what point you were trying to make especially when i said my sister in law. Now I should make sure that you know that sister in law means a woman. She isnt one of those trannies or delusional pretenders. An actual real life woman here.....

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. That men who drink get into violent fits and pick on someone weaker than them? Belarusian culture doesn't oppress women. They are equals in society....

This was interesting...


..A typical Belarusian domestic bully is a man in his thirties or forties, intoxicated and unemployed, according to Oleg Karazei, Head of the Prevention Office of the Central Department for Law Enforcement and Prevention of the Belarusian Interior Ministry. Thus, a high level of alcohol consumption, economic problems, and the lower status of women may contribute to the high prevalence of domestic violence in Belarus.

You know what we didnt see in there....... Their religion telling them its ok and permitted to abuse, rape, or assault their women. They have drinking problem when it comes to violence at home. Not a religion problem. Same as we have here.....

Culture has more to do with how men interact with women then religion alone, and that is evident by how the faith is practiced in different areas around the world.

Belarus, as a whole seems pretty religious and dominated by the Belarusian Orthodox Church - conservative religious institutions that promote a conservative view of the role of women and men and the idea that men are over women, which can be and has been used to justify abuse. The article I quoted pointed out the inferior status of women in that culture as a ongoing issue in domestic abuse. Where do you suppose that status comes from? It comes from the church. The countries where women enjoy the greatest rights and freedoms, and laws that protect them from violence are typically the most secular in their religious practices.

actually Russian orthodox is a lot like being old school Catholic. There is zero oppression.

Are you insinuating that being a homemaker makes you oppressed? I realize you are trying to make a parallel to Muslims .... But I have never mentioned or said being a homemaker was a problem.

Are Russian orthodox women forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating? No.

No, being a homemaker does not make you oppressed unless you have no choice. Choice makes the difference.

Are Muslim women "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?" Not necessarily. Depends on what culture they live in.

Are Orthodox Jews "forced to wear an oppressive shroud or face a beating?"

Removal of choice is what turns something into oppression and you seem to assume that most Muslim women do not have that choice.

 

[Tilly]

Poor woman.

Attack victim claims police told her to dye hair

Published: 06 May 2016 11:41 GMT+02:00


A student attacked by a gang of four men has accused police of blaming her because she had blonde hair and sexy clothing.
The incident happened when the young woman, identified only by her first name Sabina, who lives in the capital Vienna had been waiting for a train on the S6 line at the city's main Westbahnhof station.

The 20-year-old, who was hospitalised after the attack by four men in which she was beaten and robbed, told Heute newspaper: "I felt so helpless."

"I had been standing on the platform waiting for the train when a man came up to me and spoke to me in a foreign language. He then started putting his hands through my hair and made it clear that in his cultural background there were hardly any blonde women. I told him to go away, and for a short while he really did go away."

"But it was only to get his pals and a bit later he came back with three others. They stole my handbag and my cards."

And if that was not enough, she said that the four had then attacked her, bashing her to the ground in a rage before running off.

She said that from what they had said she understood they were from Afghanistan and that as she lay on the floor in agony nobody on the platform had helped.

After being treated at hospital for bruising to her head, shoulder and elbow as well as her spine and hips, she went to police.

And her distress had turned to anger when police had told her that she should change her hair colour and should not have been travelling alone after 8pm on public transport.

She said: "At first I was scared, but now I'm more angry than anything. After the attack they told me that women shouldn't be alone on the streets after 8pm. And they also gave me other advice, telling me I should dye my hair dark and also not dress in such a provocative way. Indirectly that means I was partly to blame for what happened to me. That is a massive insult."

The girl who is studying acting said the police advice is going in the completely wrong direction.

She said she will now avoid huge crowds and for example this year will not be attending the popular music concert Danube Island Festival.

She said: "The police told me that attacks are now a daily routine. And it's going to get worse."

Asked what she would say if she saw the men that attacked again, she replied: "Nothing, I would simply spray pepper-spray in their faces


Attack victim claims police told her to dye hair

 

[Tilly]

When does the 'debunking' happen?